CSA 2010 and vans

[OntarioVanMan]

These straight drivers speak of safety to make us vans log and scale....they are blowing smoke out their butt..the real reason is they are skeered like little children that we take their loads away from them and kick them out of the sandbox!! ....

what is it the big business always says...leveling the playing field..*LOL*

 

[blizzard2014]

If shippers continue to build forklift elevators and ramps for cargo vans to be dock high; the playing field will be leveled in no time!

 

[chefdennis]

Ok I just got off the phone with Safety and Compliance at Bolt...The lady knows what she is talking about after years of doing her job.

CV's do NOT fall under any thing within CSA2010..they are NOT regulated by the DOT and they will NOT suffer any penalty under SCA 2010 even if they are ticketed for a speeding ticket or any other infraction, and neither will the company on their score.

Now as for Michigan. I know of a Bolt Driver that owns a Sparton cube. He was stopped and ticketed in Michigan for not scaling as he went up I-75. Bolt and him took the issue to court and the ticket was thrown out as he is NOT regulated by the DOT and is under 10,001 GVW.....and Michigans "Home Rule" as to what needs to scale, still only relates to CMV's as defined by FMCSA......and it also does NOT trump Fed Dot laws....the key being FED.....

Now as has been stated, if you are running HazMat in a CV all bets are off and you now need to comply woth scaling and logging. But, as I said, we don't do HazMat, so its not a concern for me.

So as a CV driver with a carrier that doesn't require me to have a CDL,and being under 10,001 GVW...CSA is of absolutely no concern to me, as neither I nor the Carrier will suffer any ill if i get a citation......

 

[guido4475]

Do you guys really wanna get the Cargo Van banned? GO ahead, keep on talking about it, and some DOT man will come on here and get us regulated. I simply feel sorry for all of the Vanners out here who do not have commercial liscenses; you are the ones who are going to be in a world of hurt. I however have a commercial liscense with T-X endorsements and TSA clearance, along with an impeccable MVR.

If the Cargo Van ever gets regulated, i'll simply jump up into a straight truck! It ain't gonna slow me down none. But I tell you all one thing, it won't be worth driving a cargo van if you have to log and scale. I'd just as soon leave the business or go into a large straight truck. Now with that being said; dump the truck, and hate the straight!!

This just keeps getting better all the time.

1) Why are vanners without a cdl going to be in a world of hurt?I still have my current flawless cdl as well.

2) And why would it not be worth it if a van has to log and scale?There are endless advantages to hauling freight in a van vs a s/t.Having to log or not.

I'm going back out side and clean the garage or something.

Just curious, I thought you lived in Cleveland, Ohio? I thought you just purchased youre van in California.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Guido said

I'm going back out side and clean the garage or something.

Try working for a change...or is that working for change???

Now that is change you can believe in...*LOL*

 

[guido4475]

Very funny.Ha-Ha !! lol. Canadian humor....hmmm..

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Very funny.Ha-Ha !! lol. Canadian humor....hmmm..

so when you see that guy on the corner with that sign "will work for change"...is he campaigning for Obama? *LOL*

 

[Dreamer]

How can that be Dale?

Your not a commercial vehicle, right?

Was this in Michigan?

Greg,

Nope, in Ohio. ..Wilmington scales.. hauling placarded Hazmat...(vans have to scale then), pulled around for full Level 1 inspection. Took them an hour to release me.

I had all my ducks in a row, they could find nothing wrong, and he was not happy LOL. I think the crusty ol DOT officer figured he could find SOMETHING wrong on a van not used to scaling.


Dale

 

[Turtle]

How can that be Dale?

Your not a commercial vehicle, right?

Was this in Michigan?

The moment you slap HAZMAT placards on a van, the van becomes a CMV with all the benefits thereof, including logging of the previous 7 days. Of course, if you weren't placarded at any time during the previous 7 days, then logging it is brain-dead easy, since you were OOS as a CMV for that time.

I used to haul quite a bit of HAZMAT with Con-Way NOW, and what with a van being easy pickins at a scale house, I had more than my share of fine-toothed combing done with regard to inspections of the vehicle and the log book. Never even came close to a violation.

 

[xiggi]

I'm gonna hire Dee Schneider to sing a song for us at the next EO Convention. We're not gonna take it; oh no, we ain't gonna take it, us cargo van drivers aren't gonna take it anymore! That should be our new theme song!

Or "cargo vans make the truckin world go round!"

In an earlier phase of my life we provided sound equipment for a Twisted Sister show in Texas. He's an interesting fellow that Dee Schneider.

 

[highway star]

A while back The Onion was reporting that Dee is now willing to take it.

 

[Jack_Berry]

In an earlier phase of my life we provided sound equipment for a Twisted Sister show in Texas. He's an interesting fellow that Dee Schneider.

i'll see your dee schneider and raise you a ted nugent. went to the starbucks at 138 on 94 in mi today. seems terrible uncle ted stops in there for coffee. calls the employees .....'buckers.


where is moot on this subject, anyway?

 

[RLENT]

How can that be Dale?

Your not a commercial vehicle, right?

Greg,

I would suggest that you actually read the relevant FMCSR definitions with regard to what constitutes:

1. a commercial vehicle

2. a commercial motor vehicle

Additionally you might want to have a look at the definition of what constitutes:

3. a motor vehicle

Each one of these has a precise legal meaning - they are not at all the same thing under the law, or regulations, as the case may be ..... (no matter how much some might wish it so ... )

There are certain laws and regulations which apply to all motor vehicles .... there are others which apply with respect to all commercial vehicles ..... and there are still yet others which apply only to all commercial motor vehicles ....

The latter category above are what the vast majority of FMCSR's are directed at, and apply to .....

As to Dale, he clearly stated he was hauling a placarded Hazmat load - so therefore, at that time, he was, in fact, a commercial motor vehicle .....

 

[RLENT]

Dennis,

I would suggest that before you actually go spouting off in here about what you think you (or someone else) knows, you too, might also wish to avail yourself of the advice I gave to greg as regards the various definitions above (along with reviewing any applicable FMCSR's that would relate to your job)

CV's do NOT fall under anything within CSA2010 ..

Really ?

Since CSA 2010 applies only to commercial motor vehicles ..... then what happens when someone in a cargo van hauls a placarded Hazmat load, and is therefore, at that time, a commercial motor vehicle ? (... duh ....)

How exactly does that work ?

... ya just can't make it up ....

they are NOT regulated by the DOT

ABSOLUTELY WRONG - cargo vans are regulated by the DOT (State and Federal) and the applicable FMCSR's - the relevant question is:

To what extent, and in what ways, are they regulated ?

Unqualified, blanket statements such as those you are making generally have one inherent characteristic:

They are not always accurate or correct in all instances, and are therefore often wrong, in the specific.

and they will NOT suffer any penalty under SCA 2010 even if they are ticketed for a speeding ticket or any other infraction, and neither will the company on their score.

Yeah ? .... see the above regarding the times when vans are commercial motor vehicles ..... and chew on that for a bit.

Now as for Michigan. I know of a Bolt Driver that owns a Sparton cube. He was stopped and ticketed in Michigan for not scaling as he went up I-75. Bolt and him took the issue to court and the ticket was thrown out as he is NOT regulated by the DOT and is under 10,001 GVW.....

Again, he is certainly regulated by the USDOT and FMCSA (and MDOT) ..... just not with respect to scaling and logging ....

and Michigans "Home Rule" as to what needs to scale, still only relates to CMV's as defined by FMCSA ......

Huh ? ..... what are you talking about ?

What is the source of that data ?

You obviously have not read the relevant Michigan laws that pertain to this matter .....

and it also does NOT trump Fed DOT laws.... the key being FED .....

Well, I really don't know what you actually mean by the above ..... it is my understanding that the States are free to implement and enforce more restrictive motor vehicle laws and regulations than the Feds ..... but they may not implement and enforce less restrictive ones ..... which would functionally supercede federal law/regs

Is your understanding different than the above ?

If so, please cite a valid reference for the above .... (preferably something like link to a valid statute or reg contained on the USDOT or FMCSA website ..... as opposed to "I heard it through the grapevine ....")

Now as has been stated, if you are running HazMat in a CV all bets are off and you now need to comply with scaling and logging .....

.... and contemplate how CSA 2010 might apply to you - if you, at times, run (in a cargo van) as a commercial motor vehicle.

Your statement above is maybe the one single thing out of your entire post that has some merit and value ..... even if it was not complete (with respect to CSA 2010)

 

[OntarioVanMan]

we all require a valid drivers license and license plate...isn't that regulated by DOT...In some states safeties are required another DOT requirement.

A Dot or cop has the right to pull any vehicle over that appears to be unsafe..IE: rear bumper dragging to the ground from overloading...

 

[greg334]

It gets confusing, especially when a few are saying yes and others are saying no.

The problem seems to be that the FMCSA is focusing on drivers and permitted carriers, which I think is one of the issues.

As a van driver, most carriers require you to submit an annual citations report, have your van inspected and in many cases a medical exam. When you apply, you are not applying as a NON-CMV driver so you submit an MVR (or they get one), an application, and in some cases go through a back ground check.

As a carrier, they are required to keep safety records on you, not your van. They are required to mitigate your behavior and to make sure they don't get a poor rating.

So when your safety officer says no you are not covered but you have to do all that stuff, what are you?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Mine claims it is an insurance company requirement....
a DOT medical...

E-1 does not require a formal safety on a van, not when signed up or ongoing....

And SD does not require a safety or pollution test for plate renewal.

 

[greg334]

Why would you need a medical when they are not insuring you with medical or life insurance?

How about drug tests?

You do do randoms?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Why would you need a medical when they are not insuring you with medical or life insurance?

How about drug tests?

You do do randoms?

Why do you need a medical? same question back...

yes 1 drug test at the beginning...

Randoms...not that I am aware of....I've never had one or anyone I know of....

 

[greg334]

Why a drug test at all?

You filled out an application?

Why a medical?

I don't know but someone in a wheelchair gets a waiver to driver but can't preform a lot of the tasks and someone who has type one diabetes has to jump hoops to get the waiver, a bit weird. The next thing is the BMI thing, which I can agree some van drivers need to shed some weight to haul more weight.