mcavoy33
Seasoned Expediter
Yea I am based out of Indiana, that is where I paid $0.30 more last Thursday. I don't remember the other place but it could have been Indiana.
cpm gas vs diesel
- Thread starter mcavoy33
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Yea I am based out of Indiana, that is where I paid $0.30 more last Thursday. I don't remember the other place but it could have been Indiana.
Dakota
Veteran Expediter
Indiana has exempt diesel and auto diesel.when I drove I'd buy the exempt not sure who got to pay the taxes but I know it wasn't me
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mcavoy33
Seasoned Expediter
tbh the hurray is habbit, nothing else. When I drive my car, I religously drive 8-9 miles past the speed limit and I've never got a ticket in my life, knock on wood. Well I did get tickets when I was 20 and sped but none in the past 10+ years driving reasonable.
The other part is just wanting to get the load done and my name on the borad again sooner.
I'll probably slow down from 76 to 70ish and give that a try. Slowly work my way down.
You will need to estimate your annual miles traveled. I usually use 80,000. Some would definitely use more (I'm kinda lazy
) I would suggest a 4 or 5 year life span at the annual mileage. 5 years @ 80,000 miles would give you 400,000 traveled.I would suggest looking at the purchase price of the vehicle. Say you buy a $45,000 sprinter and use 5 years. $45,000/400,000 miles = .1125/mi cost for the van purchase. You can adjust the numbers as you see fit and you can plug in actual purchase price when your shopping.
Another thing to consider. If your looking at used vans. Just subtract the miles that are already on that van from the 400,000 (or whatever # you choose). Let's say you are looking at a used Sprinter for $20,000 with 150,000 miles on it. You would have .08/mi purchase cost in the van.
You can also use this same principal to see how much any upgrades or options will cost over the life of the van.
There are several discussions of maintenance costs for vans on this site. That's a whole new can of worms to dig into. Personally, I think I can get the gas engine serviced quite a bit cheaper than any diesel. I also really like the idea of being able to take it to my local Chevy dealer and the mechanic that has worked on my vehicles for going on 30 years now. I'm just more comfortable with the Chevy.
This link shows the price of gas vs diesel in Snellville, GA at Murphy's (walmart). 3.42/gas vs 3.83 dsl. Murphy USA - 3425 Centerville Hwy - Snellville, GA - Atlanta Gas Prices
At 20mpg the Sprinter would have a fuel cost of .19/mi
At 16mpg the gas van would have a fuel cost of .21/mi
If you save a penny per mile on purchase price, then a penny per mile on maintenance, your even. And...IMO those numbers are skewed toward the Sprinter as I think the "new" sprinters will be closer to 19mpg avg and I think 17mpg is achievable with a gas burner.
Beside all that. I'm not gonna give up my gas burner for a couple cents per mile.
At 20mpg the Sprinter would have a fuel cost of .19/mi
At 16mpg the gas van would have a fuel cost of .21/mi
If you save a penny per mile on purchase price, then a penny per mile on maintenance, your even. And...IMO those numbers are skewed toward the Sprinter as I think the "new" sprinters will be closer to 19mpg avg and I think 17mpg is achievable with a gas burner.
Beside all that. I'm not gonna give up my gas burner for a couple cents per mile.
You can put some operating costs together pretty quick too. Always estimate high on expenses, low on income.
.22/mi for fuel + .12/mi purchase price + .08/mi? maintenance + .03/mi misc (ins, tags, etc) = .45/mi total cost to operate the van. Add .40 mi for every mile you plan to put on the van in a year for your pay. You would need to bring in .85/mi all miles and run 80,000 miles/yr to hit your target. Anything more would be profit and you should be able to do more.
These are the numbers I would use, but I've not run a van YET. There are plenty of veteran van operators on here to adjust my numbers to reality for you. You can probably find all of these numbers with some research also.
.22/mi for fuel + .12/mi purchase price + .08/mi? maintenance + .03/mi misc (ins, tags, etc) = .45/mi total cost to operate the van. Add .40 mi for every mile you plan to put on the van in a year for your pay. You would need to bring in .85/mi all miles and run 80,000 miles/yr to hit your target. Anything more would be profit and you should be able to do more.
These are the numbers I would use, but I've not run a van YET. There are plenty of veteran van operators on here to adjust my numbers to reality for you
. You can probably find all of these numbers with some research also.
Skewing would be comparing what is possible in the gas van to what would be closer to real in the sprinter. You need to figure each the same way. Just like 17 is possible in a gasser 21 is possible in a new sprinter. Also a new Sprinter can be found for $38.000 with some shopping not 45.000. I see no need to replace one after 4 years but I probably would not replace a gasser after 4 years either.
A person would also need to look at what freight is available to them? Can you get more loads in a sprinter size vehicle which can help offset the cost or would a cargo van give you the same opportunity. You also have something like the cargo max in a gasser to use in that equation.
I agree sprinter repairs can be expensive but Chevy and Ford prices are getting up there too. A friend just had to replace the fuel pump in his 08 chevy pickup. $740.00
Ageed...but that would only change it by another penny. I know that pennys add up, but until you can show me a nickel advantage with the Sprinter, I'm sticking with my gasser. I do have a CargoMax btw.
If the OP wants to compare the Sprinter to the gas burners, there are pages upon pages of threads doing just that so I'm not really interested in doing it again. He did ask how to do the calculations though. The $45k for the Sprinter may be too much, depending on what your looking at. But the process for determining costs is the same, he just needs to plug in the numbers he finds when he starts shopping.
Actual operating costs for the different vehicles can be found with a search, so there is no need for me to try guess at them. I'm not going to go dig 'em up either.
I did use 5 years?
I used 20mpg for the sprinter and 16mpg for the gasser? Yeah, we can bump the sprinter to 21 and the gasser to 17, but wouldn't that be about the same difference?
And... I don't think you'll find an average of 21mpg for a new sprinter, that will be close to its high, not it's average. I think it will average 19mpg and that's why I used 19mpg. (I'll be happy to hear from someone who has a new sprinter that can claim 21mpg avg).
I do think a gas burner with a 6sp and 3:73's (standard specs I'm told) will average 17mpg.
In the end it's still all a bunch of sniveling over a penny or two per mile.
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
You can put some operating costs together pretty quick too. Always estimate high on expenses, low on income.
.22/mi for fuel + .12/mi purchase price + .08/mi? maintenance + .03/mi misc (ins, tags, etc) = .45/mi total cost to operate the van. Add .40 mi for every mile you plan to put on the van in a year for your pay. You would need to bring in .85/mi all miles and run 80,000 miles/yr to hit your target. Anything more would be profit and you should be able to do more.
These are the numbers I would use, but I've not run a van YET. There are plenty of veteran van operators on here to adjust my numbers to reality for you
Good numbers and I think you can lower the maintenance a bit to less than a nickel a mile for a Chevy. Mine has never been over that. Depending on how you do your tax's you can get around 52c mile deduction from the IRS. I'll have to look at mine something like that.
I like a Diesel but rather own a gas.
I'm not disagreeing with you at all, just was trying to point out some things. In the end it really just boils down to personal choice.
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
It's to easy to change a fuel pump in a GM, your friend just liked going to Chevy to have it changed.
I have been shopping for new C/Vans for the past 6 months. There are no new $38k Sprinter vans available at least with any options. A cargo Max or Ultra Maxx has the same 14' loading space available as a 170" Sprinter but that Sprinter will not haul 4k pds down the road (legally or not) everyday like the others w/o damaging something and attracting attention with the bumper dragging unless you pay to upgrade the suspension (an option that costs more).
As far as 17 mpg gallon I promise you if you cannot get 17mpg out of a GM with a little bit of driving finesse and slight mod's to the engine your doing something wrong. We are talking new vehicles here so that's where specking comes in. Plan for it. As far as replacing a vehicle if starting from the new position normal tax depreciation is 5 yrs that the normal IRS conversion for depreciation, but it's up to the owner how long before they turn the unit over. You can depreciate it out in a year if you want to.
As far as owning a C/Van vs a Sprinter, well it's up to the operator whether or not he likes to miss out on a load when he's a thousand miles out of the company's system. Yes they are cheaper and so is the freight they haul. Yes you can make some money with a used C/Van if you know what your doing and what your market is. For someone who wants to get everything available they better stay up with the times because most respectable carriers or larger carriers will only contract Sprinters or Max's. It has to do with everyone having the same type unit available where the freight is available and not worrying about missing loads because the C/Van cannot get that third or fourth pallet on board. I have witnessed that more in the last year than all previous years. Now carriers are wanting 20' or more on straight trucks, they don't care about nice living conditions, they just want to haul freight and make money.
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Cool
I drove all night and been up all day, so if I've been argumentative, I apologize. The personal choice part is really what I was trying to get at. I don't think the numbers justify either one actually. That wasn't the case a few years ago before the newer dieselemissions regs, but IMO the gap is closed now.
Mac, you'll do fine. Most of the numbers you need can be found here using the search function. With all that said, if you were going to buy an older van (pre'07), I wouldn't hesitate to go with a sprinter. That's where the real fuel savings are at. I think OVM has a link to some good buys on older used sprinters.
Purgoose...I thought I was high on the maintenance (on purpose). I was too lazy to go searching for accurate numbers. lol
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
Good job Rocketman with the numbers. It's always a good practice to use the kiss method. Keep it simple stupid.
mcavoy33
Seasoned Expediter
I had no choice but to fuel up in the back today, what a pita. You have to sit there and hold it at close to minimum flow.
I don't understand the Indiana thing and the different prices, guess I'll ask next time at the office.
mcavoy33
Seasoned Expediter
I don't want to start a new thread and I don't want to hijack someone else's thread but reading the crisis averted thread got me thinking about sitting and waiting vs moving.
I have found a couple of times that my drop off is in what I consider a low population density area. aka 60-100 miles from a metropolis center (city). My company has me sit there. I'm a company driver so I do what I am told.
Well in each time, I asked the dispatcher to move, the first time, after sitting 2 days, I asked and I was told I could move 30 miles north and then sure enough the day after that, I got a load 75 miles north of that. If I stayed south, I would probably have been out of range for that load.
That load ended up taking me to Cumberland, MD, which was in the middle of no where again. I asked if I should move maybe 60 miles in either direction either towards Pittsburg or Washington and was told no sit and wait. Well 1.5 days later, Friday morning, I talked to the owner and he was like yea you are in the middle of no where, move towards Pittsburg and if we don't find something, we'll get you home. Well after driving an hour towards Pittsburg, they had a load for me.
To me, common sense tells me that it would be better to spend $20-40 in fuel to dead head to a more densely populated area. To me, the likelihood of getting a load in an area that has a population of 500k+ in a 60 mile radius is far greater than finding a load in an area with a 75k population in a 60 mile radius.
But everyone in this industry seems so determined not to spend any fuel, I don't understand it. I was always taught, to make money, sometimes you have to spend money. Me sitting for 1.5-2 days in a low population area doesn't make sense to me, if I can spend some money on gas and get to a better area. The faster I get my next load = the possibility for an increased # of miles per week.
I have found a couple of times that my drop off is in what I consider a low population density area. aka 60-100 miles from a metropolis center (city). My company has me sit there. I'm a company driver so I do what I am told.
Well in each time, I asked the dispatcher to move, the first time, after sitting 2 days, I asked and I was told I could move 30 miles north and then sure enough the day after that, I got a load 75 miles north of that. If I stayed south, I would probably have been out of range for that load.
That load ended up taking me to Cumberland, MD, which was in the middle of no where again. I asked if I should move maybe 60 miles in either direction either towards Pittsburg or Washington and was told no sit and wait. Well 1.5 days later, Friday morning, I talked to the owner and he was like yea you are in the middle of no where, move towards Pittsburg and if we don't find something, we'll get you home. Well after driving an hour towards Pittsburg, they had a load for me.
To me, common sense tells me that it would be better to spend $20-40 in fuel to dead head to a more densely populated area. To me, the likelihood of getting a load in an area that has a population of 500k+ in a 60 mile radius is far greater than finding a load in an area with a 75k population in a 60 mile radius.
But everyone in this industry seems so determined not to spend any fuel, I don't understand it. I was always taught, to make money, sometimes you have to spend money. Me sitting for 1.5-2 days in a low population area doesn't make sense to me, if I can spend some money on gas and get to a better area. The faster I get my next load = the possibility for an increased # of miles per week.
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
This is me speaking now, my experience. Most dispatchers have never been anywhere but from home to work. They don't know about living conditions etc. etc. etc. They probably wouldn't know if you did move even with tracking, they have so much to do they don't remember where you are.
I almost always drop and stop as near as possible. You'll find that there are loads where you wouldn't expect. But, with that said. If I unload in the am and they don't have another load by 7 or 8 pm that night, I call dispatch and ask if they get loads out of the area. If they say no, I head for a better area. You would be surprised though how often it works out right where I'm at.
With the smaller carriers, you learn that your playing the board. The larger carriers, you may want to move towards their direct shippers, but with the smaller carriers, their posting your truck on the bid boards and if there is a load that comes out of that rural area, you may well be the only truck anywhere near it. I run for a flat rate per loaded miles, so if I can luck into a load once in a while in those out of the way places, it really helps to keep my empty miles down which in turn keeps my all miles number where I like to see it.
I live 125 miles northwest of Memphis, TN. I used to always head for Memphis when I come back in service after a trip home. After driving the 125 miles to Memphis, then being dispatched on a pickup 25 miles from the house (in the opposite direction), I decided that maybe I was leaving freight behind me. I have been amazed at how much expedite freight there is in my area once I started staying at home. It usually takes less than an hour or maybe two for them to have me loaded from the house. I barely got off the phone with them once. If they don't get anything that day...then I head for Memphis that night.
mcavoy33
Seasoned Expediter
This is me speaking now, my experience. Most dispatchers have never been anywhere but from home to work. They don't know about living conditions etc. etc. etc. They probably wouldn't know if you did move even with tracking, they have so much to do they don't remember where you are.
Our main dispatcher who works from 9 am to 9 pm is a former driver. But they've got 3-4 other people who support him but they aren't drivers.
But he is pretty busy keeping track of 50 drivers I imagine. But I like him, he's a good guy, I'm just know I get 1/50th of his attention. But I also feel like I have to listen to him because he's been there for XX years and I've been there less than a month. So I just try to make a good impression and do what I'm told.
Part of my problem is I'm quiet and meek by nature but once I become self employed, I'll revert to business mode and be more aggressive. Take today for example, I unloaded at 1:30. I was beat, so I just wanted to sleep.
But my sprinter isn't set up properly so even with the van running and the ac going, its still warm with no insulation. I slept about an hour.
Then I haven't been able to sleep since. The main dispatch leaves at 9, I use to wait till 8:45 to decide to buckle down for the night but I've learnt to call him earlier. So I called him at like 7:30 and seen if there was anything on the board and he said no, go ahead and get a room.
So I moved like 20 miles towards a Red Roof Inn, away from NYC / NJ.
I hear ya and the one good thing about it, is I have yet to have to take a back haul rate. But I've also dead headed 500 miles on Friday night to come home. That is the thing where I don't know enough yet, I see the benefit of not moving, in a rural area, your probably going to be the only truck and your going to get full rate. But if you move to a city, your probably going to have to compete and maybe take a cut.
I'd really like to spend a week dispatching and seeing the bidding process but I don't want to take time away from driving either.
This is the thing that can irk me at times as a company driver. We do quite a bit of local runs, but it irks me if I have to drive 40 minutes to pick up the van, then drive 40 miles to the pickup, then drive 60 miles to the drop.
Well I'm about 100 miles from my house and I'm stuck their for 8 hours waiting until the end of the day, and imo 90% of the time, my next load is going to come back in the city. So I'm stuck sitting out there all day long for $30 when I'm like an hour from home and all my ammenities.
I value my time, I understand its different when you are one the road but I'd rather spend the $20 to go home for 8 hours than sit 100 miles from home and be couped in a cage for $30, which works out to like $4/hr.