Congressional report: US guns fuel Mexico violence

[EnglishLady]

BBC News

A US Congressional report suggests more than 70% of firearms recovered from Mexican crime scenes in 2009 and 2010 came from the US.

The report indicates Mexican drug cartels are arming themselves with US military-style weapons.

The senators who compiled the report urge a strengthening of US regulations to stem the flow of guns to Mexico.

Mexican President Felipe Calderon has repeatedly called for stricter firearms laws.

The report by Democratic Senators Dianne Feinstein (California), Charles Schumer (New York) and Sheldon Whitehouse (Rhode Island) says US guns have contributed to "Mexico's dangerous levels of violence".

It quotes Acting Director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Kenneth Melson stating that of the 29,284 firearms recovered in Mexico in 2009 and 2010 and submitted for tracing, 20,504 came from the United States.

The report recommends a number of measures to curb firearms trafficking, including:

Congress pass legislation requiring background checks for all firearms purchases, including those at gun shows
The ATF tighten existing laws to make the import of military-style weapons from the former Eastern bloc harder
Sellers report multiple sales of all firearms in order to allow law enforcement agents to track all bulk buying of firearms
Access be expanded to the ATF's firearms tracing system so that the backlog in tracing of seized weapons can be tackled
The senators accuse the US Congress of having been "virtually moribund" while Mexican drug gangs snap up US military-style guns.

Their report comes a day after Mexico's president accused the American arms industry of causing thousands of deaths in Mexico.

"Why does this arms business continue?" he asked.

"I say it openly: it's because of the profit which the US arms industry makes," he added.

 

[Ragman]

BBC News

Mexican President Felipe Calderon has repeatedly called for stricter firearms laws.

The situation in Mexico is proof of "When they outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns.

Their report comes a day after Mexico's president accused the American arms industry of causing thousands of deaths in Mexico.

Once again, Blame the Americans!

 

[layoutshooter]

1. Congress is STOCKED with liars so NOTHING they say can ever be taken as "gospel".

2. Congress is a very left wing organizations hell bent on controlling the People and destroying our rights and Constitution. So their "report" cannot be trusted.

3. The more you pass laws to make criminals out of or treat law abiding citizens as potential criminals the more criminals you will have. Crime rates will increase and "illegal" gun sales will skyrocket. (in reality since we have a RIGHT to keep and bear arms NO firearms sale can truly be illegal, only government interference in such sale can be illegal)

4. How is the investigation into the administrations "sting" that allowed guns to be moved into Mexico going? Since the administration wants the right to keep and bear arms, along with the rest of the Constitution, eliminated they would do ANYTHING to insure that they are "right" about this subject and therefor have a "duty" to eliminate freedom in the US to "protect" people in Mexico. All this while the continue to fight a war on drugs. A "war" that is the main cause of the problems in Mexico.

 

[chefdennis]

This is just more BS from the "anti gun left"...up until earlier this yr they were tossing around the number at 90%...that was proven wrong, so they commission a new report...

do you think for a minute that that 29,000 number is current? And do you think they "documented EVERY gun they recovered?? At one time one of the minsters of state from mexico said they were recovering 2000 guns a day...thats what approx 730,000 guns a yr....

realisticly there are reports in the 129,000 guns recovered in the last 2 yrs...so they traced 29,000 of those and found 20,000 from the US...which is still BS, but even at that, thats what approx 16-17%....

Then take a look at the number of military personel that walk away from the mexican army...and take their weapons with them when they join the cartels....The mexican gov also has admitted that gun flow from the south central american countries...

BUT... they biggest reason for this BS report coming out NOW is because of the House hearings into the gun case known as "Fast and Furious"...Oh, and you can bet this case leadss right back to barrys minion. eric holder....


House Panel to Weigh Subpoena Authority in 'Fast and Furious' Gun Case

By William Lajeunesse

Published June 13, 2011
| FoxNews.com
House Panel to Weigh Subpoena Authority in 'Fast and Furious' Gun Case - FoxNews.com

Since Watergate, Congress has held just 12 senior U.S. government officials in contempt for failure to produce subpoenaed documents. On Monday, that process begins again.

A hearing in the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee is laying the groundwork to compel U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder and the head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to turn over documents related to "Operation Fast and Furious," a secret Obama administration program that put thousands of guns into the hands of Mexican drug cartels.

Fast and Furious aimed to track gun sales to Mexico, allegedly, say critics of the program, to build up evidence to publicly blame cartel violence on U.S. gun store owners and lax American gun laws.

In the past two months, the Department of Justice, on behalf of ATF, has ignored subpoenas and seven letters demanding details of the program. It has refused to provide a single document to the oversight committee, according to chairman Darrell Issa.

"Now the question is will DOJ give us the documents or will law enforcement officials, little by little, as whistleblowers give us what we want to show this problem goes to the highest levels," said Issa, R-Calif. "What we would like to do is get the truth out quickly, that it's the judgment of the people involved that Congress needs to question."

Legal experts say Monday's hearing is one step in a long process. Testimony will focus on the almost unlimited subpoena powers given to the legislative branch when it comes to government oversight.

"There is no special status under the law for the Department of Justice. The attorney general is an important member of the Cabinet, but he is no different than any other agency chief. He, too, is subject to congressional oversight," Steve Ross, formerly the top lawyer for the House of Representatives, told Fox News.

Until now, the Justice Department has taken the position that House and Senate investigators are not entitled to the documents because it may jeopardize an ongoing investigation. It also claims the ATF, under Director Ken Melson, never sanctioned or otherwise knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons to straw buyers despite evidence to the contrary.

One of the documents that exposed the operation shows ATF officials knowingly allowed the sale of 1,318 guns to 15 suspects after they had been positively identified as gun smugglers. A majority of those guns went south of the border and only about 250 have been recovered in the U.S. by police at crime scenes.

Mexican officials say at least 150 Mexicans have been shot by guns obtained through the "Fast and Furious" program.

"When you look at least 2,000 rifles of choice going into Mexico, 150 seems like a very reasonable number, if it is not higher than that already it will be in time," Issa said.

While Monday's hearing will focus on administration stonewalling, a second hearing on Wednesday will include family members of murdered Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and three ATF agents who blew the whistle on the operation.

They have told Fox News that ATF ordered and encouraged law-abiding gun shop owners to sell weapons to buyers knowing those guns would be smuggled to Mexico.

Here is a story on the original "Operation Gunrunner" that the Fed started and knew right from the start what they were doing:

http://biggovernment.com/awrhawkins...r-ca-demands-answers-on-operation-gun-runner/

 

[layoutshooter]

Keep in mind that the original post was a BBC report. The BBC is extremely left wing and Europe is very anti-gun and has a history of controlling it's people by any means possible. Mass murder is one of Europe's favorite means of control. Armed citizens would be able to, at very least, put up a strong defense against it. That is the MAIN reason our government is getting more and more anti-gun. They are out to control the people by what ever means possible.

What has happened in Europe, and all over the world, can and will happen here. Governments are evil and they always end up resorting to evil to insure their power.

 

[Moot]

BBC News

A US Congressional report suggests more than 70% of firearms recovered from Mexican crime scenes in 2009 and 2010 came from the US.

Great news! It's about time the U.S. exported something to Mexico other than jobs. This should improve our trade deficit numbers.

 

[EnglishLady]

Keep in mind that the original post was a BBC report. The BBC is extremely left wing and Europe is very anti-gun and has a history of controlling it's people by any means possible. Mass murder is one of Europe's favorite means of control. Armed citizens would be able to, at very least, put up a strong defense against it. That is the MAIN reason our government is getting more and more anti-gun. They are out to control the people by what ever means possible.

What has happened in Europe, and all over the world, can and will happen here. Governments are evil and they always end up resorting to evil to insure their power.

Whoa ..... a bit strong don't y'think

The BBC is extremely left of what?

Of the 3 main news channels, in the UK, the BBC is the only one I would ever believe is telling the truth. And I believe that more strongly than ever since moving here and seeing real spin in all its glory

Personally I thought it was quite a bland report of a Congressional report.


What has Europe got to do with this?

MASS MURDERS A FAV in EUROPE ?!?

CONTROLLING ITS PEOPLE BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE ?!?







Wow you need another cup of coffee or three

 

[scottm4211]

Keep in mind that the original post was a BBC report. The BBC is extremely left wing and Europe is very anti-gun and has a history of controlling it's people by any means possible. Mass murder is one of Europe's favorite means of control. Armed citizens would be able to, at very least, put up a strong defense against it. That is the MAIN reason our government is getting more and more anti-gun. They are out to control the people by what ever means possible.

What has happened in Europe, and all over the world, can and will happen here. Governments are evil and they always end up resorting to evil to insure their power.

I can't believe you are this paranoid irl.

 

[chefdennis]

irl....what does the Indy Racing League have to do with it??

As for Joe being paranoid...don't think for a minute that the US Fed Gov isn't capable doing whatever they feel is needed to "control" the population when they feel the need to....

 

[EnglishLady]

irl....what does the Indy Racing League have to do with it??

As for Joe being paranoid...don't think for a minute that the US Fed Gov isn't capable doing whatever they feel is needed to "control" the population when they feel the need to....

Mass Murder ???? I think not



Lots of Countries, not just Europe, have had their own atrocities throughout history and America is no different there.


But I still don't see what Europe has to do with this.

 

[layoutshooter]

Europe has produced Hitler and Stalin. They used mass murder as a means of controlling the people. They both used the Jews as "scapegoats". They both used "camps" to further their control by terror and to "isolate" those who would stand up to them. Look at the history of Europe and you will find this activity throughout their history. The incest infested royal families rose to power through murder.

Every "extreme" leftist country has used and is continuing to use mass murder as a means of control. That includes China, Russia and North Korea. ALL have strict prohibitions on private gun ownership.

ALL of those countries still use murder as a tool of control.

The BBC is a tool of a government. NO government can be trusted. That is NOT a reflection of a people but of a government.

Paranoid? Tell those who were sent to the Gulags, the gas chambers they were paranoid. Tell the people of what was Burma that they are paranoid and that China and North Korea are their benefactors. Tell those in Tibet the same. Tell the people of North Korea just how paranoid they are. Their kind government provides for their needs.

I worked with far too many people who escaped from Soviet rule. I was no allowed to meet relatives I had behind the Iron Curtain. They were not allowed to travel because they opposed Soviet control over Poland.

None of those extremes have gone away.

 

[EnglishLady]

Trust me ... the only thing the BBC worries about is if the current G'ment will take away the TV License that we have to pay cos BBC won't use adverts on their channel to pay their costs.

 

[EnglishLady]

.

Every "extreme" leftist country has used and is continuing to use mass murder as a means of control. That includes China, Russia and North Korea. ALL have strict prohibitions on private gun ownership.

ALL of those countries still use murder as a tool of control.


.

But you can't think that the USA will EVER get to that point of extremism ..... can you?

 

[Ragman]

But you can't think that the USA will EVER get to that point of extremism ..... can you?

This may be a bit naive, but I don't see it happening.
At least, not in my lifetime.

 

[scottm4211]

This may be a bit naive, but I don't see it happening.
At least, not in my lifetime.

If you only read this messageboard it's already happened.

 

[layoutshooter]

The BBC is a arm of the British government. It always has been. I trust NO government.

This is the USA, not Canada. I welcome all input from our Canadian friends but this is OUR problem and only we can solve it. We got ourselves into this mess. Our history is not the same as Canada's or England's. We have different dreams.

We were founded by "liberals". The root word of liberal is liber, which means free.


The "liberal" idea that this Nation was founded on was that the People were the power, not government. That the People controlled the government, not the other way around. Our Constitution was written to reflect that "liberal" idea.

Those "liberals" left Europe to escape the idea that man was meant to be ruled. They believed that man was best served by allowing him to control his own destiny without government interference.

Has this Country reached that extreme yet? No, not quite. Is it moving in that direction? Without a doubt. Could it reach that point? Yes. In our lifetime? Maybe. How can it be stopped? Vigilance, and a return to popular control over government.

Nothing our government is doing today is meant to further the idea of the People being in control of them or their own destiny.

The very idea that government has a role in taking care of the People, like welfare, health care, housing etc is contrary to the very idea that this Nation was founded on.

The dream was that every man would succeed, or fail, on his own efforts and merits. That when, left to his own devices, man will rise to the effort and live the life he chooses.

The more the government has become involved the worse things have become. Government in this Country is the CAUSE of the problems, it can never be the solution.

I believe in that "liberal" idea, and NO man will change my belief nor will any man, or government, take it from me.

THAT is how a FREE man thinks.

I fear only ONE thing, the loss of my freedom. I will defend that idea, with my life if needed. It was for that very purpose that we have a "Right to Keep and Bear Arm". To help insure that no man or no government ever gets in the way of that dream.

 

[Ragman]

Has this Country reached that extreme yet? No, not quite. Is it moving in that direction? Without a doubt. Could it reach that point? Yes. In our lifetime? No. How can it be stopped? Vigilance, and a return to popular control over government.

Fixed it for ya.

I do agree with you on all but one item.

I don't think I will live long enough to ever see that kind of extremism exist in our country.

 

[Turtle]

The BBC is a arm of the British government. It always has been.

Sorry, but that's simply not true. It never has been, and isn't now. They are specifically chartered as independent. The BBC has a long and distinguished track record of royally ticking off the British government, which couldn't happen if they were an arm of the same.
UK Government Considering Dismantling BBC

It is true that they are left-leaning, at least insofar as their opinion and commentary, but when it comes to the news itself, they are amazingly unimpassioned in this day and age, and deal with the Five W's almost religiously.

 

[layoutshooter]

Fixed it for ya.

I do agree with you on all but one item.

I don't think I will live long enough to ever see that kind of extremism exist in our country.

The move to government control started as far back as Lincoln. It has been moving that way faster with each passing year. It took Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia far less time for it to happen.

I believe we have already seen the "first sins" of that extremism here. Just look at all the laws at the Federal level meant to restrict States and personal rights. The very idea that the Federal government can use force to require a citizen to buy something IS extremism. Make no mistake they WILL use any level of force they have, up to and including deadly force, to install Obama Care.

Don't believe that? Try not buying the "required" policy. Then refuse to pay the $750 fine. Just wait and see what happens. Any bets?

 

[Ragman]

The move to government control started as far back as Lincoln. It has been moving that way faster with each passing year. It took Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia far less time for it to happen.

I believe we have already seen the "first sins" of that extremism here. Just look at all the laws at the Federal level meant to restrict States and personal rights. The very idea that the Federal government can use force to require a citizen to buy something IS extremism. Make no mistake they WILL use any level of force they have, up to and including deadly force, to install Obama Care.

Don't believe that? Try not buying the "required" policy. Then refuse to pay the $750 fine. Just wait and see what happens. Any bets?

Oh, I know what you meen, I just don't think the U.S. would get to the level of a Hitler.

At least, not in my lifetime. I'm old ya know.