Condoning religious violence?

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I found this commentary this morning. I have not had much time to find more on this case. Did this judge go over the line and 'invoke' Sharia Law? Should religious violence be allowed, condoned or encouraged? Does this ruling do that?


[h=1]Penn Judge: Muslims Allowed to Attack People for Insulting Mohammad[/h]
COMMENTARY | Jonathon Turley, a law professor at George Washington University, reports on a disturbing case in which a state judge in Pennsylvania threw out an assault case involving a Muslim attacking an atheist for insulting the Prophet Muhammad.


Judge Mark Martin, an Iraq war veteran and a convert to Islam, threw the case out in what appears to be an invocation of Sharia law.


The incident occurred at the Mechanicsburg, Pa., Halloween parade where Ernie Perce, an atheist activist, marched as a zombie Muhammad. Talaag Elbayomy, a Muslim, attacked Perce, and he was arrested by police.


Judge Martin threw the case out on the grounds that Elbayomy was obligated to attack Perce because of his culture and religion. Judge Martin stated that the First Amendment of the Constitution does not permit people to provoke other people. He also called Perce, the plaintiff in the case, a "doofus." In effect, Perce was the perpetrator of the assault, in Judge Martin's view, and Elbayomy the innocent. The Sharia law that the Muslim attacker followed trumped the First Amendment.


Words almost fail.


The Washington Post recently reported on an appeals court decision to maintain an injunction to stop the implementation of an amendment to the Oklahoma state constitution that bans the use of Sharia law in state courts. The excuse the court gave was that there was no documented case of Sharia law being invoked in an American court. Judge Martin would seem to have provided that example, which should provide fodder for the argument as the case goes through the federal courts.


The text of the First Amendment could not be clearer. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof-" It does not say "unless somebody, especially a Muslim, is angered." Indeed Judge Martin specifically decided to respect the establishment of a religion, in this case Islam.


That Judge Martin should be removed from the bench and severely sanctioned goes almost without saying. He clearly had no business hearing the case in the first place, since he seems to carry an emotional bias. He also needs to retake a constitutional law course. Otherwise, a real can of worms has been opened up, permitting violence against people exercising free speech.


It should be noted that another atheist, dressed as a Zombie Pope, was marching beside the Zombie Muhammad. No outraged Catholics attacked him.








http://news.yahoo.com/penn-judge-muslims-allowed-attack-people-insulting-mohammad-210000330.html
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I see it more of a problem of having a predetermination than that of an appearance of Sharia Law. It appears that the judge has made up his mind before hand and possibly based this on the ideals of being a convert, which is a problem in the Muslim religion from what I've been told.

Now he is a judge and the first amendment in this case does not really apply, he isn't telling anyone what they can worship or anything like that but rather he is siding with a criminal based on a per-disposition of a religion but that happens a lot.

If anything, the AG should be looking into filing again in a different court to see where it goes.

The one thing that keeps sticking out is the use of "Iraqi Vet" or any vet status as if that is to immune someone from being accountable or important fact when it is trivial and rather insulting to the reader.
 

jimby82

Veteran Expediter
Now he is a judge and the first amendment in this case does not really apply, he isn't telling anyone what they can worship or anything like that but rather he is siding with a criminal based on a per-disposition of a religion but that happens a lot.

I would think the atheist would have a pretty good 1st amendment - freedom of speech case against his attacker. And the judge should be removed.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I would think the atheist would have a pretty good 1st amendment - freedom of speech case against his attacker. And the judge should be removed.

How's that?

He wasn't stopped worshipping his religion nor stopped criticizing his religion so his freedom of religion was not harmed. However he was assaulted which is a crime.
 

jimby82

Veteran Expediter
How's that?

He wasn't stopped worshipping his religion nor stopped criticizing his religion so his freedom of religion was not harmed. However he was assaulted which is a crime.

His freedom of speech (even in poor taste) was harmed, but that was not what was in question with this case. I think he would probably have a future case against his attacker infringing on his 1st amendment freedom of speech.

Of course if his attacker were Christian, incensed over the zombie pope costume, I'm sure the ACLU would already be all over this.:rolleyes:
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Assault is assault. That judge should be arrested for assault by accessory. He should also be thrown off the bench. He is a disgrace and doesn't really deserve anything but contempt.
 
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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I find it amazing that this judge is more or less saying that it is just OKEE DOKEE for Muslims in his part of PA to use violence in defense of their religion.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The judge dismissed the case because there wasn't enough evidence to convict. The video of the incident was not allowed as evidence (because it didn't really show much of anything, much less an assault), so it ended up being one man's word against another. If that's as far as it went, there wouldn't be a problem. But his dressing down of the victim shows bias and a conflict of interest (and shows him to be en even bigger doofus than he claimed the victim to be). It doesn't show that he applied Sharia law at all. It does, however, make a really, really good case for that judge to be removed from the bench.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The judge dismissed the case because there wasn't enough evidence to convict. The video of the incident was not allowed as evidence (because it didn't really show much of anything, much less an assault), so it ended up being one man's word against another. If that's as far as it went, there wouldn't be a problem. But his dressing down of the victim shows bias and a conflict of interest (and shows him to be en even bigger doofus than he claimed the victim to be). It doesn't show that he applied Sharia law at all. It does, however, make a really, really good case for that judge to be removed from the bench.


The person who wrote this commentary is a law professor and he seems to believe that this may be a case where Sharia law was invoked. Why do you feel differently? I don't know, just asking.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I find it amazing that this judge is more or less saying that it is just OKEE DOKEE for Muslims in his part of PA to use violence in defense of their religion.
It's amazing, but it's certainly not unprecedented. Shortly after the Civil War it was virulent anti-Mormonism more than anything that helped unify a divided nation. It wasn't because Mormons held different beliefs and read the Book of Mormon, it was because the practice of polygamy was an affront to and threatened the cultural and political orthodoxies of our Christian civilization.

In 1887, at the behest of religious reformers and the Republican Party, the U.S. Congress actually disincorporated the Mormon Church, seizing its assets, while southerners in particular (Protestant-led Baptists and evangelicals, mostly) attacked Mormons by way of vigilante violence. Catholics, Jews and other religious minorities also were victims of violent attacks during this time, but significantly more violent attacks were leveled against Mormons in the South.

Attacks on Mormons were actually more prevalent than the attack of blacks by whites. People mistakenly think the KKK is all about white versus black, and to a large degree it is and was, but it's really quite simply about the reestablishment of Protestant Christian values in America, by any means possible, and included attacks on blacks, Jews, Catholics, Mormons, and pretty much any social or ethnic minority. Very few of these cases of violence, including where murders were committed, were adjudicated in courts, beyond that having them simply tossed out for lack of evidence or some other nonsense, all because the judges were, largely, Protestants themselves.

There are certainly recent examples of this type of thing, where the judge agrees with the religious views of the defendant, and either tossed the cases outright, or handed out wrist-slap sentences. Many attacks by the Army of God (abortion clinic attacks) were dismissed for one reason or another, for example.

It's interesting/funny/scary that people can be so outraged at the judge in Pennsylvania for ruling in the "side of Islam", yet they more or less yawn when a judge rules on the side of Christianity. In reality, everyone should be outraged because the judged ruled on the side of any religion, rather than on the side of the law.

Here's an interesting set of questions to ponder... When a Muslim commits an act of violence in the name of Islam, is he a true Muslim?

How about...When a Christian commits an act of violence in the name of Christianity, is he a true Christian?

According to in-depth research and surveys by the Public Religion Research Institute, and a new joint report by PRRI and the Brookings Institution, the answers to those questions reveal that Americans literally apply a double standard when answering.

Eight-three percent Americans say that those who commit violence in the name of Christianity are not truly Christian. On the other hand, less than half (44 percent) of Americans extend this same principle to Muslims and say that those who commit violence in the name of Islam are not truly Muslim. It's even more interesting when it gets broken down by political and religious affiliation. Fully ninety percents of Republicans and Tea Partiers think Christians who commit violence are not true Christians, yet these same Republicans and Tea Partiers are at fifty-five percent when Muslims commit violence. That's a difference of 45 percent, which is just huge, and screams a double-standard.

It also confirms the general historical and current observation that Christians believe in a separation of Church and State, except when that Church is theirs. They are just fine with religious beliefs and values being part and parcel of the laws of the land and being used in judicial decisions, as long as those religious beliefs are Christian, but will go bat-crap crazy if the laws and teachings of some other religion seeps into court.

One of the more telling results of the reports show that by a margin of 2-to-1 (61 percent to 30 percent), the general public rejects the notion that American Muslims ultimately want to establish Shari’a law as the law of the land in the U.S. On the other hand, of those Americans (Republican conservatives, 100% of them) who say the most trust Fox News as their news source, it's just the opposite, where fully 61% believe the goal of Muslims is to institute Sharia law as the law of the land in America.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The violence of the KKK against Catholics, immigrants and union organizers was going strong well into the 20th century. My grandfather used to tell me stories of Klan cross burning and beatings of coal miners in SW PA. According to my grandfather it was rather common in the 20' and 30's.

There is no excuse for a judge in this country to come down on the side of ANY religious violence.

Part of the problem that many American's have with Muslims and violence is fed by the stories of murders and attempted murders of those who would draw a picture of the Profit. We see riots over cartoons and Korans being burned. Kinda feeds the fire so to speak.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
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Retired Expediter
The person who wrote this commentary is a law professor and he seems to believe that this may be a case where Sharia law was invoked. Why do you feel differently? I don't know, just asking.
If Sharia law would have been invoked, the Atheist would have been put to death. What was invoked was a judge's bias in favor of the establishment of religion, in this case, Islam, and dismissed the charge of harassment on that basis. The law professor is entirely correct that the judge should be removed from the bench and severely sanctioned.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
If Sharia law would have been invoked, the Atheist would have been put to death. What was invoked was a judge's bias in favor of the establishment of religion, in this case, Islam, and dismissed the charge of harassment on that basis. The law professor is entirely correct that the judge should be removed from the bench and severely sanctioned.


Gotcha, and yes, that judge should go.
 

clcooper

Expert Expediter
Mark Martin, is a Magisterial District Judge. more like Judge Judy . (the court TV shows you see on TV )

http://judgepedia.org/index.php/Pennsylvania_Magisterial_Districts

here is more info with 2 videos

http://fatherhooduncensored.com/2012/02/23/judge-mark-martin-wipes-his-***-with-the-constitution/

Ernie Perce was out looking for trouble. "Fighting words are written or spoken words, generally expressed to incite hatred or violence from their target"
Ernie Perce wasn't exercising his freedom of religion he was Cross burning

freedom of speech means you can say anything you want even if it is against others rights to "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" somebody better do some research

but when i used my freedom of speech (KKK meeting) i was told i am being full of hate and going to be taken to court .
but it is ok for this guy to do what he did . oh that is ok because he was making fun of Muslim religion . and only his religion has the freedom of religion

so we should only use the Constitution only when it fits into our beliefs .

what standard are we to go by .
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
What I read was that he was Zombie Mohammed, while his friend was Zombie Pope. It was Halloween. "Inciting hatred", as clcooper puts it, would include zany Bush and Obama masks, among others that would stir feelings. The 1st Amendment didn't say anything about "unless you hurt someone else's feelings". It's a "sticks and stones" document. So stick that up Mohammed AND Jesus's poop shoot, and carry on.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It's a tossup as to which person is the bigger "doofus" - Zombie Mohammed or Judge Martin. The difference however, being Zombie Mohammed is exercising his 1st amendment rights to be a doofus in public. The larger point here that's not discussed is the growing tolerance of certain muslims resorting to violence every time they feel "offended" or witness something they think "disses" the prophet. Maybe some time in the calaboose would help them understand that their barbarism won't be tolerated and that our society doesn't revolve around Islam as theirs does in Iran or Saudi Arabia. Unfortunately, judges like this Martin character make it difficult to protect our constitutional rights like freedom of expression.
 
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clcooper

Expert Expediter
What I read was that he was Zombie Mohammed, while his friend was Zombie Pope. It was Halloween. "Inciting hatred", as clcooper puts it, would include zany Bush and Obama masks, among others that would stir feelings. The 1st Amendment didn't say anything about "unless you hurt someone else's feelings". It's a "sticks and stones" document. So stick that up Mohammed AND Jesus's poop shoot, and carry on.

watch the video . look up cross burning . look up Fighting words .
and learn about them . and why they are laws .

"Inciting hatred", as clcooper puts it" keep judgeing me . you are doing good . now look up fighting words . then tell me it is as clcooper puts it .

so we should only use the Constitution only when it fits into your beliefs .


PLEASE one of you Constitution experts please tell me about it .because i seem to get it wrong every time . and you are always right .

and as i said before read my signature
 
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