Chavis Charter death ruled suicide by autopsy report

[EnglishLady]

BBC

The death of a US man who allegedly shot himself in a police car after being searched twice and handcuffed was a suicide, according to an autopsy.

Three medical examiners signed the state crime laboratory report on the death of Chavis Carter, 21.

Police say he concealed a gun and while handcuffed, raised the weapon and shot himself in the head in the back of the police car on 28 July.

His family have questioned the police's story, saying Carter was not suicidal.

The FBI has been monitoring the case.

Missed weapon?

Carter was searched after a traffic stop in Jonesboro, Arkansas. Police found a small amount of marijuana but no gun. He had an outstanding arrest warrant in Mississippi for a drug offence

The report, released on Monday under a Freedom of Information request, included autopsy findings and investigative conclusions from the Jonesboro police department.

It said the muzzle of a gun was placed against Carter's head when it was fired.

A video from the dash cam of the police car was released last week, also under a Freedom of Information request by media organisations.

But the footage has done little to answer the Carter family's questions because while it shows their son being questioned and handcuffed, it does not include the moment the fatal shot was fired.

Carter, an African-American, was shot in the right temple, but his family have reportedly said he was left-handed.

Last week, police in Jonesboro released a video reconstructing events - using the same type of handcuffs and the same model of handgun - to demonstrate what they believe happened to Carter.

In the video, an officer of similar height and weight to Carter sat in the back of a police car, leaned over and was able to lift the weapon to his head and reach the trigger.

Jonesboro Police Chief Michael Yates said it was possible Carter hid the gun in the police car after he was searched the first time - before he was handcuffed.

Cam video
BBC News - Chavis Charter death ruled suicide by autopsy report

 

[BigCat]

I with Amonger on the post he will do later. Crooked Cops are everywhere.

 

[Turtle]

This is one I've been keeping up with, since I know a few people in Jonesboro and have spent a lot of time there. There were three people in the car that was stopped that night. Carter was the one driving. Small amounts of marijuana were found on all three men, plus some other paraphernalia directly under the seats of the other two men. The other two men were questioned and were allowed to drive away. The other two men were white, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

Chavis Carter was searched, twice, by the police, once before he was placed into the police car and once after, both times by presumably competent police officers. He was handcuffed with his hands behind his back and placed into the vehicle. When the police found him slumped over dead, his hands were sill behind his back. His hands were still cuffed behind his back when he arrived at the hospital. But I'm sure that's a coincidence, too.

The video on the police car shows him being put into the car, and just after they found him dead, with no video in between. It took several days and a Freedom of Information Act request to get what little video the police released. How convenient. This has ugly messy dirty written all over it. How do police search a man twice, find a baggie of pot, but miss something as obvious as a handgun?

Chavis Carter 'Suicide': Police Release VIDEO In Arkansas Patrol Car Shooting

But one forensic expert calls that conclusion “possible,” but still “very unlikely.”

“If it did happen [the way police said Carter's death occurred,] the police still have entire responsibility for it because when they take someone into custody, they’re responsible for his health and welfare,” forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden said. “If he dies in their custody they’re responsible. At the least, we’re talking about very sloppy police work — not finding a gun that he could have used to shoot one of the officers — and it’s indicative of poor training of the officers.”

Chavis Carter autopsy: Forensic expert calls suicide ‘possible,’ ‘very unlikely’ | theGrio

 

[scottm4211]

The police's account of it almost sounds laughable.

 

[bobwg]

So you all say the police account is impossible??? while I agree it sounds fishy some people are able to do things with their bodies even while handcuffed that others are not able to do. We had a St Louis Police officer killed by a handcuffed suspect that was able to get to a gun while sitting in the backseat of the police car shooting the officer thru the window of the police crusier the officers partner returned fire at the police car wounding the suspect. THis suspect was wanted for questioning in another shooting incident. the suspect is now in prison on a life sentence

 

[Turtle]

So you all say the police account is impossible???

I might be wrong, but I don't think anyone here has said that. I know I didn't. I will state for the record that, like Scott, I think it's laughable. I don't think it's impossible, though. I think it's highly improbable, and highly unlikely.

If the police account is true, then it sucks to be a cop in Jonesboro right now.

 

[Mdbtyhtr]

I observe situations like this with the question of who I would rather defend...What was the motive to take his own life? It truly was a minor possession charge, they write citations for that now. The warrant he had in MS might be an issue, especially if it carried back time, or he could have people that believe he snitched on them and doesn't want to end up in the same jail...there is not enough information to make an informed opinion. I recommend that they consult Richard Nixon about the missing video, he handled missing audio pretty well.

Scott

 

[muttly]

I might be wrong, but I don't think anyone here has said that. I know I didn't. I will state for the record that, like Scott, I think it's laughable. I don't think it's impossible, though. I think it's highly improbable, and highly unlikely.

If the police account is true, then it sucks to be a cop in Jonesboro right now.

Your initial post included a lot of innuendo that the police caused Carter's death.

 

[bobwg]

I observe situations like this with the question of who I would rather defend...What was the motive to take his own life? It truly was a minor possession charge, they write citations for that now. The warrant he had in MS might be an issue, especially if it carried back time, or he could have people that believe he snitched on them and doesn't want to end up in the same jail...there is not enough information to make an informed opinion. I recommend that they consult Richard Nixon about the missing video, he handled missing audio pretty well.

Scott

No reason why he killed himself means cops lie???? bull how many people in this country kill themselves for no good reason? we had a weather man here named Bob Richards kill him self by flying his airplane straight nose first into the airport runway and the only reason anyone could come up with was his mistress broke off their affair

 

[Turtle]

Your initial post included a lot of innuendo that the police caused Carter's death.

The innuendo was that the story the police are giving stretches plausibility and probability. You can infer from that whatever you like. Except, I didn't say anything was "impossible", which is what was asserted.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

As soon as I saw this happened in AR-CAN-SAW, I shook my head. OF COURSE it's a suicide. It's been shown that as soon as people get taken into AR-CAN-SAW POH-LEASE KUS-TOE-DEE, they come down with suicidal tendencies.

 

[muttly]

The innuendo was that the story the police are giving stretches plausibility and probability. You can infer from that whatever you like. Except, I didn't say anything was "impossible", which is what was asserted.

Your first coincidence you stated was that the two whites were let go ,but the black individual Chavis Carter was arrested. Your inference, correct me if I'm wrong, is that he was singled out because he was black. The fact is he had an outstanding warrant and that is why he was put into custody. Regarding the police searching him twice and not finding a gun. Unfortunately it does happen and sometimes it is the officer who pays. A detective a few years ago in my community lost his life because a cop didn't search a suspect thoroughly. The suspect pulled out his gun and killed the detective in the interview room. The fact that the officer in this case didn't find a gun,while troubling, is indeed plausable. Regarding the hand cuffs still being on while brought to the hospital. I'm assuming that they were left on because at that point it was considered a crime scene. Suicide is considered a crime scene as well.
A reenactment of the shooting showed that is is possible for person to shoot himself while in hand cuffs. Mistakes were made regarding the search for weapons, no doubt, but it seems very unlikely for a cop to just shoot a person who is cuffed in this case. Their were witnesses, ( a black person) who say the police didn't do anything to Carter.

 

[BigCat]

With my hands behind my back I can't get my hands anywhere near my temple. I'm more interested in why that part of the video is missing. I still say crooked cops. If he had a warrant and a gun with intentions to kill himself I like to think he would have tried to run or better yet shot at the cops and run. He clearly had nothing to lose if he did kill himself, although I don't believe he did.

 

[AMonger]

...Your inference, correct me if I'm wrong, is that he was singled out because he was black.

Yes, that's wrong. An inference, by definition, is an act by the hearer or reader, not the speaker or writer.

A reenactment of the shooting showed that is is possible for person to shoot himself while in hand cuffs.

Cops have been known to re-enact something hundreds of times, until they get something to happen exactly right for the video camera, the one I read about being a so-called suicide in which a shell casing was found sitting--placed--on the arm of the chair in which the decedent was sitting. The cops re-enacted that until they got the shell casing to eject and land on the arm rest.
Could it have happened the way the cops said? I don't think anyone would testify in court that it's absolutely impossible. But did it? We all know the answer to that. Really. Deep down, even statist cop-worshipers like Bobwg know. We all know they searched for the most limber person they could find to re-enact it, even if he's the only one in 20 states who could do it.

 

[Turtle]

Your first coincidence you stated was that the two whites were let go ,but the black individual Chavis Carter was arrested. Your inference, correct me if I'm wrong, is that he was singled out because he was black. The fact is he had an outstanding warrant and that is why he was put into custody.

You are not wrong, mostly, in that is precisely my implication. (inference is how you take it, implication is how I meant it, so it was actually your inference that he was singled out because he was black, not mine. I implied it, and you inferred it, and did so correctly.) It is also a fact that he had an outstanding warrant, but that's not why he was placed in custody. He was placed in custody because he had marijuana on his person. The two white men were briefly cuffed and questioned to see if they had any marijuana on them, which they did not, and then were allowed to leave. The two white men were allowed to leave prior to the police finding out about the outstanding Mississippi warrant. Meanwhile, Carter is sitting in the back of a police cruiser not in handcuffs. He initially gave the police a fake name, which is why they didn't find out about the warrant as quickly as they might have otherwise. Once the determined his true identity and found out about the warrant, they got him out of the car, handcuffed him, searched him again, and then placed him back into the car.

Regarding the police searching him twice and not finding a gun. Unfortunately it does happen and sometimes it is the officer who pays. A detective a few years ago in my community lost his life because a cop didn't search a suspect thoroughly. The suspect pulled out his gun and killed the detective in the interview room. The fact that the officer in this case didn't find a gun,while troubling, is indeed plausable.

While plausible, it does, nonetheless, stretch the credibility of such plausibility. It is indeed possible, though unlikely, not very probable. You keep on saying the same things I've been saying over and over again. I never said the story the police gave was impossible, and I challenge you to point to where I did. Innuendo as to probability is not the same thing as impossible possibility. I simply doubt the story, not because it's an impossible story, but because it's a highly unlikely story.

Regarding the hand cuffs still being on while brought to the hospital. I'm assuming that they were left on because at that point it was considered a crime scene. Suicide is considered a crime scene as well.

I don't doubt or dispute any of that. What I dispute is that someone who is handcuffed behind their back can raise a gun to contact with their own temple.

A reenactment of the shooting showed that is is possible for person to shoot himself while in hand cuffs.

Yes, a reenactment carefully staged with handcuffs applied so loosely that one can maneuver in them with relative ease, as compared to how police usually place cuffs on someone. In the demonstration, you can see the officer putting on the cuffs in a manner to deliberately leave a lot of slack in the cuffs, he places his finger in between the cuffs and the arm to ensure slack, enough so the cuffs slide freely. When the officer exits the vehicle in the demonstration, you can clearly see the cuffs on his right arm have slid well up on his forearm. Properly applied cuffs would make that action almost impossible. Not totally and completely impossible, but close. Far more difficult than is shown in the video.

Mistakes were made regarding the search for weapons, no doubt, but it seems very unlikely for a cop to just shoot a person who is cuffed in this case. Their were witnesses, ( a black person) who say the police didn't do anything to Carter.

Actually, the witnesses said they didn't see the police do anything, not that the police didn't do anything. There's a difference. If the cops seached him twice and only found a small bag of weed, but missed a considerably larger and harder handgun, they are incompetent in the extreme, which may very well be the case. The Jonesboro police aren't exactly known for their professionalism, high levels of training, and competence. While agree that it's unlikely for a cop to just shoot a person who is cuffed, it's certainly not without precedent. If the cuffed suspect in this case said the wrong thing to the wrong officer at the wrong time, that alone might have been enough to make the "very unlikely" a little more likely. He may have spit in the officer's face. We simply don't know, thanks to an important gap in the police car video.

The coroner completed the autopsy report based on an examination of the body, and on "investigative conclusions from the Jonesboro police department". In other words, the police said, and proved, that it was possible, so the coroner went with that. The autopsy goes into great detail, as it should, and makes special note of "D. Contact range of fire, with soot and searing of entrance gunshot wound and dense soot deposition in the underlying soft tissues," and in the External Description of the report notes the hands were bagged, and they were clean and uninjured. If there were any gunpowder residue or soot on the hands, as is consistent with someone who had just fired a handgun, it would have been noted. It wasn't noted. It's conspicuously absent. The marks on the wrists from the cuffs were noted, in precise detail. All the cuffs marks were on the wrist area. None of the markings show any kind of travel up the forearm which would be consistent with the police reenactment video. That's odd. It doesn't in and of itself mean anything, it's just another odd piece of an odd puzzle that the police sure seem to want to have quickly solved.

But none of this proves the allegation by Bob that I or anyone else in this thread said the police account is impossible. I never said it was impossible. Neither has anyone else, as far as I can tell. Please correct me if I'm wrong, though. Impossible means the account absolutely, positively could not have happened under any circumstances. It means not possible, no way, no how. I never said that, or anything even remotely close to that. I implied directly that the account the police gave is not very believable, not credible, not very probable, and not very likely at all given the circumstances of what we know to be true of that night (and the history of police-race relations in Jonesboro, which are not exactly cordial). I also said, if it is, in fact, true, then it sucks to be a cop in Jonesboro, and that's because not very many people in Jonesboro are gonna believe the account, either.

Bob asserted that I and others stated that the police account was impossible. I refuted that claim. Then you come along and say that by innuendo I did, in fact, say what Bob has claimed, by innuendo. So now I have to refute your charges, as well. Sheesh. So, please show me where my innuendo implies in any way, shape or form, that anything in the police account was impossible, that it could not have happened under any circumstances.

 

[muttly]

My initial reply didn't say anything about you believing the police account was impossible. I commented about your stated coincidences in this case and inferred that you believe their was a more sinister events that took place. I will touch on one issue regarding the search of Carter. It is plausable that there was only one bad search of him. The initial frisk of him didn't produce the gun and he was put into the back of the squad car. At that point it's concievable that he hid the gun under the seat. Once it was determined he was under arrest a more thorugh and intense search of his body was done. At this point however it woudn't have matter if they did a full cavity search of Carter because the gun was no longer on him ,but instead under the seat. Once he was cuffed and placed back in the car he was able to gain access tot he weapon.
I believe his wiry body frame as in the reenactment showed that he could have shot himself. He was also had drugs in his system and may have altered his thought process.

Autopsy: Man shot in police car had meth in system - Yahoo! News

 

[Turtle]

So your post that said, "Your initial post included a lot of innuendo that the police caused Carter's death," was nothing more than pointing out the blatantly obvious? Uhm, OK.

 

[skyraider]

I have contacted CSI Miami and they told me that they could solve this case in 55 minutes, but with EOL on the case, just about 3 more post will do it, of course there maybe commercial interruptions , just saying.

 

[Monty]

I guess in all of this, I would just wonder why the police, (if they did so), would have shot him.

Perhaps there will be "more to the story" later on?

 

[bobwg]

Yes, that's wrong. An inference, by definition, is an act by the hearer or reader, not the speaker or writer.

Cops have been known to re-enact something hundreds of times, until they get something to happen exactly right for the video camera, the one I read about being a so-called suicide in which a shell casing was found sitting--placed--on the arm of the chair in which the decedent was sitting. The cops re-enacted that until they got the shell casing to eject and land on the arm rest.
Could it have happened the way the cops said? I don't think anyone would testify in court that it's absolutely impossible. But did it? We all know the answer to that. Really. Deep down, even statist cop-worshipers like Bobwg know. We all know they searched for the most limber person they could find to re-enact it, even if he's the only one in 20 states who could do it.

And then we have cop haters like Amonger who think all cops are bad , cops never do anything good or correctly. Amonger or anyone else here cannot prove that the cops version of events is a lie. As for re-enactments they use re-enactments all the time to help solve crimes or even events like plane crashes thru video or computer Just wonder if anyone here can prove this guy was not wiry enough and had the ability to bend his body and arms to reach a gun and shoot him self in the head.