Cargo Vans and ELDs

[BigStickJr]

I spoke with a cargo van driver that hauls a fair amount of HazMat.
He told me he uses paper logs.
If he were to go over 8 days in any calendar month he would be required to switch to an ELD.
He tries to not leave home placarded, in case he needs to placard to get home.

 

[xmudman]

I thought you couldn't haul placardable hazmat in a van?
Reason being that the required separation between cab and body doesn't exist in a van.

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[fastman_1]

I thought you couldn't haul placardable hazmat in a van?
Reason being that the required separation between cab and body doesn't exist in a van.

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Your right except some vans have a bulkhead


Sent from Deep in the backwater swamp

 

[xmudman]

Your right except some vans have a bulkhead


Sent from Deep in the backwater swamp

Not sure a bulkhead counts. Look at any straight truck. Cab and sleeper, then box. Placard holders, etc, and no jiveass "under 10000 gvw" sticker on the door

If those folks wanna haul freight that goes boom, makes ya glow in the dark, or would just kill ya in a wreck, more power to them

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[Treadmill]

I thought you couldn't haul placardable hazmat in a van?
Reason being that the required separation between cab and body doesn't exist in a van.

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Remember anything 1001 and higher needs to be placarded and logged. Paint and dry batteries as well as class 9 materials can be hauled in a cargo van. Bulkhead not required but preferred.

 

[Turtle]

I thought you couldn't haul placardable hazmat in a van?
Reason being that the required separation between cab and body doesn't exist in a van.

Your right except some vans have a bulkhead

Bulkhead doesn't matter. The entire cargo van from bumper to bumper is considered to the the cab. You cannot legally haul in a van any hazardous material which is prohibited from being transported in the cab of a truck. These materials are primarily inhalation hazards and poisons.

 

[Turtle]

I thought you couldn't haul placardable hazmat in a van?
Reason being that the required separation between cab and body doesn't exist in a van.

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Remember anything 1001 and higher needs to be placarded and logged. Paint and dry batteries as well as class 9 materials can be hauled in a cargo van. Bulkhead not required but preferred.

Placarding requirements are divided into Table 1 and Table 2 materials. Table 2 materials that weigh 1000 pounds or less do not have to be placarded, nor is a CDL with a HAZMAT endorsement required. An example would be a single drum of paint weighing 750 pounds, or a pallet with 4 truck batteries on it weighing a total of 300 pounds. Add a second drum of paint and now you need a CDL with the endorsement.

Table 1 materials (except for poisons and inhalation hazards) can also be hauled in a cargo van but are to be placarded regardless of quantity.

 

[BigStickJr]

I should know better than question Turtle , but I’d question the no endorsement required to haul the one drum of paint.
I’ll agree no placards or logs, but I would expect endorsement and proper paperwork would be needed.

 

[Turtle]

A CDL with a HAZMAT endorsement is required to haul any hazardous material in a quantity which requires placards. If the material quantity doesn't require placards, it doesn't require a CDL or an endorsement. Whether the material requires placards is the determining factor as to whether a CDL and endorsement is required.

That doesn't mean a carrier or a shipper couldn't require a CDL with an endorsement. But the federal government does not.

The proper shipping papers is required for all materials listed on the Table of Hazardous Materials, regardless of placarding requirements.

https://www.expeditenow.com/blogs/can-you-haul-hazmat-without-an-endorsement-851/

 

[BigStickJr]

Logical .
Thanks.

I suspect I’m thinking you would need an endorsement for the lesser quantities comes back to the thought that as a carrier I wouldn’t send someone without an endorsement or training.
I wouldn’t expect a non endorsed driver to understand the paperwork requirements.,

I also wouldn’t expect the end user, say a painter, to have to have an endorsement.

 

[Turtle]

There's not a whole lot about the FMCSA that's particular logical. But with hazardous materials it does follow a certain logic. The purpose of the HAZMAT regulations is to protect the public, the environment, and the driver, in that order, from unreasonable risk of harm when transporting hazardous materials. There are some materials which present such high unreasonable risk when transported in any quantity (Table 1 materials) and other materials which present little or no risk when in certain quantities (Table 2 materials) but begin to pose more of a risk as the quantity increases.

As the level of risk increases, so does the packaging requirements and the level of training and education needed to safely transport it.

A 900 pound pallet of batteries or a 750 pound drum of paint might cause a real mess in a spill or an accident, but it doesn't present an unreasonable risk to the public at large, the environment, or even the driver. But the Secretary of Transportation has determined that more than 1000 pounds of those materials begins to pose more of an unreasonable risk to either the public, the environment or the driver, and thus requires the proper education the training to transport them.

 

[Worn Out Manager]

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[BigStickJr]

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Hey, speak up, can’t hear you.

 

[Turtle]

He was just musing about these two tables.

 

[BigStickJr]

Hmmm.
I’m very familiar with the two tables.
I never found the need to muse over them.

 

[terryandrene]

Also be aware that a placard may not be attached within three inches of any written words or graphics and they must have the placard wording on a horizontal plane. The placard must be mounted vertically so if they are attached to the top surface of a cargo van hood they would not be in accordance with the regulation. If an adhesive backed placard is used and not removed in its entirety, the driver would be in violation.

 

[BigStickJr]

The placard must be a contrasting color.
So how would I affix a flammable placard to a red van ?

 

[Turtle]

The placard must be a contrasting color.
So how would I affix a flammable placard to a red van ?

Make sure the placard has a solid or dashed border of a contrasting color.

 

[terryandrene]

Your flammable placard should have a 1/2" white border. I found the best way to fasten a paper placard was to use white electricians tape. (Home Depot, Lowes) It is weather resistant and leaves no residue when removed. With adhesive backed placards, I cut about a 1/2 - 3/4" border off the paper backing so that the placard was adhered 1/2 -3/4" on all four perimeters; very easy to remove.

 

[BigStickJr]

Thanks, Terry.
I thought you retired.,