Cargo Van Rates

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
I know this is straight trucks but here goes. I was in a tandem and went to the shipper to load. I got there first and found out I was picking up overflow from another truck that was soon to get there. He was a single axle truck and I told him he couldn't carry that amount of weight with out being overloaded. He said well you just want the extra .15 cents. I said fine take it. We get down the road not 30 miles pull in a scale he gets busted. He gets a fine and dispatch had me take the load and then I got the extra .15 cents and I wasn't over. Morale of the story is some folks just don't want to listen to advice, but want to cry when things go wrong. That's how this story comes full circle with what was being discussed. If a van owner/driver wants to overload all you can do is advise them not to. If they don't listen it's not your fault. You'll hear them crying in the future when something gets tore up or they get a fine.
 

dhalltoyo

Veteran Expediter
That's a given! They will have mechanical and legal issues for making a poor decision. Those problems affect them directly, and rightly so!

But what about the impact on those who want to run legal?

The underlying problem is that shippers, consignees and carriers will expect all vans to accept such loads, because others are willing to run overloaded and unsafe.
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
rev,
I think you know as well as I do you can't hardly control a grown person, or make them make right choices. If the drivers would stick together it would sure help things out alot. I an OOIDA member, but you know what? We can't expect OOIDA to do all of our fighting for us. You know I'm not on the road anymore, but I'll help you guys out in amyway I can. I think what needs to happen is the drivers standing up and saying we hold up our end of the deal, and so should you. I think the main problem is the people coming in with no experience but money saved up, and their only lesson in expedite is take all offers regardless. You know the drill at oreintation. I went thru it. The guy says talk all load offers. Then he shows these numbers of what people have grossed over the year by using his system. It feels to much like an paid advertisment.
 

dhalltoyo

Veteran Expediter
Agreed!

We have all heard the "take every load pitch".

And I understand where they are coming from also. It's just business.

I just try to set a good example and hope that reasoning may prevail in the long run.

In the short term, insurance companies have been giving the carriers the blues regarding a lack of policy and procedure enforcement. I have seen some movement toward enforcing the safety issues. Unfortunately, it will probably take a few hefty settlements levied against the carriers to motivate them in training all staffers regarding GVWR's.

Maybe they could put together a scrapbook with pictures of all the trucks and each picture would have the dimensions and cargo weight ratings at the bootom of the picture; sort of like the ones they had during the war to identify the enemies planes or ships!
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Well I'll throw in my two cents worth on this ... ought to liven things up a bit ....

Awhile back I was part of a discussion here on EO regarding what states had requirements for vans to scale. I ended up in a private discussion regarding that and eventually asked the other party about GVWR - specifically did he know what part of the law - or section of any particular code - requires that one NOT exceed the GVWR of a vehicle ?

IOW, what specific statue makes it illegal ?

I had asked this question specifically in reference to Federal law.

The reason why I asked about it was that I was in another discussion (not on EO) with another individual (who should know better) who told me that "the GVWR rating is more of a manufacturers recommendation - rather than an actual law."

It seemed to me that given the degree to which the Feds have their hands into everything related to safety, motor vehicles, and particularly commercial motor vehicles - that they would hardly miss an opportunity to regulate it.

The party who I asked essentially replied that it was more a state issue rather than a federal one ... and couldn't give any specific cite of a particular law - but did give me a good history lesson about how the regulation of vehicle weights came about, and the obvious issues involved (safety, wear and tear on roads, etc.) He also gave me his opinion - and I say opinion because there was no legal citation - that the limit imposed by GVWR is absolute.

Ok .... so it remains (for me at least) on the "rumor line". I'm kinda funny that way I guess .... I sorta like to see things in writing ..... preferabbly in some sort of official document or pronouncement. That way I've taken responsibility to inform myself of what it actually is ..... as opposed to having taken someone's word for it - doing that (just taking someone's word) opens the door for all manner of problems to befall one.

Anyways, next day I was sitting around having my coffee and I thought ... "Hey ... I'll just call the Ohio State Highway Patrol .... they ought to know" So I called a local OSHP post and told the lady that I had a commercial vehicle question regarding weight limits ..... She referred me to another post close by where they actually had a division office for Commercial Motor Vehicle Enforcement.

So I get the Trooper on the phone and ask him: Is it illegal in the State of Ohio to exceed the GVWR of a vehicle ?

His answer: "Depends on whether or not you are exceeding the weight you have it registered for."

Me: "Uhhh ....ok ...... you mean I could register the vehicle for more weight than what the GVWR is ?" (This is in fact possible in the State of Ohio I believe - because they will ask you at the Deputy Registar's what sticker you want when you get your plates)

Trooper: "Sure ..... as long as you aren't over the weight you have it registered for, you're fine as far as we're concerned. "

Well ..... okey-dokey ....... I didn't think this could possibly be right .... so I pursued it some more and the Trooper starting talking about dump trucks and how this often the case with them (registered over GVWR) .... so I told him point-blank: "No ... wait a sec ... I have a cargo van ..."

Trooper: "It's the same deal .... just make sure you don't exceed the weight sticker you have it plated for and you will be ok. There are certain limits imposed regarding axle weights and/or tire pressures per inch on the roadway .... but you will never exceed those in a cargo van."

...... personally I can't imagine that this could possibly be right .....

Aside from the obvious merits (safety) of not exceeding the GVWR of one's vehicle, what I'm really interested in knowing what the law actually is .....

If anyone can shed any light on that, with a specific citation of law, as in the specific relevant section ..... you would probably earn my eternal gratitude .... for whatever that's worth (probably not much)
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Now onto the economic end of things:

Where I'm currently at anything over 2500 lbs. pays "C" rate, which depending on the mileage of the run could be as high as $1.40 per mile - or as low as $1.26 per mile - whether it goes in a Sprinter or in an extended 1 ton cargo van.

If it's greater than 96" in length you may or may not get a "C" rate - same for higher than 48" .... sometimes yes .... sometimes no - possibly customer dependant .... dunno.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
OVM,

Bolt's website doesn't say 3500 lbs .... it says 3200 lbs. ......

For what's worth the GVWR on a 2006 2500 with a 140 wheelbase (the middle one) is 8550 lbs, with 4990 lb curb weight, and a stated payload capacity of 3560 lbs.

In 2006 and prior model years, the stated Sprinter specs for curb weight specifically included a full tank of fuel and the weight of an average driver (whatever that is ....) - and was figured against the stated payload capacity.

And before you tell me that expedite companies don't use anything but the long wheelbase 2500's I gotta tell ya that I saw a 2007 short wheelbase 2500 the other day .... that was decaled with and leased to Express-1 !!!!!

Hard to imagine that it could carry more than a single pallet. ;)
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Rev,

I hear what you're saying ..... and generally agree .... but sometimes it ain't so simple.

Give ya an example ... we have a customer that we haul for. The loads aren't really expedite (as in time critical, or even exclusive use) - but the cargo is expensive and delicate - something they don't want to trust to the average LTL carrier because it will get torn up. And they crate this stuff up four ways to Sunday.

The shipping department is run by this old codger ..... in addition to being a rather gruff and cantankerous individual, he has this thing about women apparently (as in they can't do anything right, etc.) We have women dispatchers.

This guy will never call in with dims and let Dispatch figure it out and send the correct vehicle .... you see, he knows our fleet (he thinks) - so he always calls in and asks for X (a specific vehicle) If you were to then ask him what the dims were he would come unglued.

The weight is never a problem .... as the stuff is really light .... but he doesn't always get it right ..... so another truck ends up getting sent out. Sometimes ya just gotta live with peoples idiosyncrasies if ya want the biz.

Anyways I get your point.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I asked about the GVW thing a while ago when I was at GM visiting and here is the answer I got.

Outside of mechanical engineering and testing of the vehicle, the manufacture sets the GVW accordingly;

1 – The manufacture has a responsibility to ensure that the vehicle can operate safely within certain operating parameters under all types of conditions.

2 – To give flexibility in the marketing of the vehicle.

3 – To follow federal/state laws and regulations, there are many laws and regulations from many different groups and departments on both levels; I think mentioned were 25 different laws and regulations on the fed level alone.

4 – To ensure that the insurance institute will be able to insure the vehicle and their actuaries and our insurance companies allow the coverage of that vehicle that we place on the market.

Many can say that it is a suggestion but truthfully, it is like many other things in this world, open to interpretation by LEOs but when you get into court, it is an absolute and what it comes down to is safety.

You as the operator are completely responsible for the safety of others, not yours, when you drive down the highway. If you overload the van and break a spring at 75 MPH which makes you lose control and hit a car full of kids, whose fault is it? I bet there would be someone suggestion to them to sue the manufacture because the van should have been able to handle the extra 1000 lbs on it.

I know that there would be a few DOT officers that would look at that sticker and consider that the absolute weight limit of that van without hesitation. They understand the 4 points I made above and they also know that manufacture is not simply looking at the van and saying “yep that has 8 lug nuts, so we can set the GVW at 11,000 lbs†but go through the same process that the drug companies go through to produce that all important insert, they test things.

As pointed out, there is a big liability and insurance companies are pr*cks when it comes to paying out money that they don’t think is have to pay out. They have more investigators than any state/feds have and can use both in-house and external experts (some who actually worked at the manufactures on that specific products that are involved with issue) to disprove any claims you make and you are left holding the bill for the van, the load and even opening up being sued over any damages that you caused. I think that many carriers will protect themselves by just simply saying it was the operator who overloaded the vehicle.

Conclusion is that if you overload your van, truck or what ever, than you should not be on the road. I don’t want to be the one you hit and I don’t want you hitting someone else.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
In SD they register at 2,000 increments Mine is 10,000lbs instead of 8,000 lbs. If I hadda went for the 8,000 and weighed out at my legal GVW of 8550 I'd still be overweight and subject to fine. Its a weird world out there.
 

fastrod

Expert Expediter
In pa. a window van is licensed as a station wagon and no weight rating is assigned. If it is a cargo van the classes are 5,000 or less, 5001 to 7000, 7001 to 9000 and 9001 to 10,000. My van would have a annual fee of $198.00 if classifed as a cargo van, but because it is a window van I get passenger car plates for $36.00 a year. Also there is no designation as a commercial vehicle
 

arkjarhead

Veteran Expediter
I had a guy who drove a cargo van for panther tell me one time in Buffulo that he loaded his van so heavy sometimes that he thought the rear bumper was gonna drag the ground. That's stupid if you ask me.
 

theoldprof

Veteran Expediter
I posted this on another EO forum, but it kind of applies here:

If you have a Sprinter 3500 with 11,030 GVW, BUT, you only plate it with 10,000 plates and NEVER carry a load to exceed 10,000 lbs GVW, are you still required to weigh and log? I only ask this because if this can be done, you would have an extra heavy duty van.

:+ :+
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
>I posted this on another EO forum, but it kind of applies
>here:
>
>If you have a Sprinter 3500 with 11,030 GVW, BUT, you only
>plate it with 10,000 plates and NEVER carry a load to exceed
>10,000 lbs GVW, are you still required to weigh and log? I
>only ask this because if this can be done, you would have an
>extra heavy duty van.
>
>:+ :+

yes
 

fastrod

Expert Expediter
DOT will go by the GVW posted on the vehicle by the manufacturer no matter what it is plated at. So if it is listed at 11,030 you would have to scale and log.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Speak of the devil..after sitting for 2 days they offered me a 3,000lb load!! Which would put me over by 800 lbs...I turned it down....so here I sit...sometimes I wish I wasn't such a goody two shoes!*LOL*
 

60MPH

Expert Expediter
Remember OVM "There's always another load!!!!!!" I am sure it will work out for the best. I have been in akron for a day and a half and not even had a load offer to turn down!!



60 MPH ALL DAY-EVERY DAY
 

dhalltoyo

Veteran Expediter
I wonder why the carrier would even offer such a load; especially if they know your capacity limit?

If I was a diabetic, and my friends knew that I was a diabetic, I would not expect them to offer me a glazed doughnut with chocolate icing on top.

To my way of thinking, if a carrier boasts about taking good care of their O/O's, then they should be mindful of the truck's limitations; therefore, showing honest concern for one's safety.
 
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