Cargo Van Questions

[Jim2029]

Hello everyone, I just signed up.... so if any of these have been asked before, sorry. As I'm sure they have but I didn't find any old posts with these questions...

Do you need a CDL for cargo van? On average, Not that I'm wanting to be nosey here, but how much can be made on a TYPICAL week and how much is USUALLY spent on fuel in the week?

Reason I'm asking is I was going to get a CDL but thanks to a dumb law in Michigan I have to wait till Sept. 2009. I have been seeing some adds for drivers wanted in Michigan but I see they all say Driver pays fuel and most of them is a 65%/35% split pay... I just want to know that I'll still be making a few bucks after paying for fuel and meals... Now I know somethings about over the road trucking as my dad is a trucker... So I was going to get into the business... But I'm thinking about Expediting now due to the CDL thing...


Thanks,
Jim
Lupton, Michigan

 

[LDB]

Jim,

I'm not picking on you and do want to be helpful but I'm coming from the 'tough love' school of helping. If you decided you wanted to be a mechanic or paralegal or barber would you figure on having to spend at least scores if not a few hundred hours studying? We are talking about a career decision and your livelihood for a potentially long period of time after all. Again, I'm not saying this to be mean or not help but to hopefully be more helpful by pushing you to learn to fish rather than handing you a fish.

I only operate D unit trucks so I can't specifically answer your van questions. I can tell you though they've been discussed many many times. My suggestion to you is to read back at least one full year in the general, newbies and recruiter forums. That doesn't mean every word of every post but it does mean reading every thread that catches your eye, both because it addresses your current question or it sounds like a good question you hadn't thought to ask yet. That will give you a solid enough foundation to at least know if you should continue exploring and pursuing expediting.

One thing I can tell you is there seems to always be a glut of vans. The entry fee is lower and the requirements are less so a lot more folks see a rainbow and go after the pot of gold. The problem is there's a glut of vans pretty much all the time and it's one of those rainbows that doesn't go all the way to the ground for most viewers. Some do well in vans and many struggle.

I like bad analogies so I'll leave you with this one. You have help people buy groceries. Shopping with just your hands to take stuff to the checkout is running a van. Getting one of those small hand baskets you carry as you walk around is running a straight truck. Getting the cart to wheel around is running a t/t. As they come to the door they tell you how much stuff they need to buy. If you're the guy with a cart you can help anyone that comes to the store. If you're the guy with the hand basket you can help some and if you're the guy with just his bare hands you can help very few. If a guy just needs bread and milk then anyone could help but if the only one available is the cart person he'll get called on. If the person needs groceries for a party of 8 and the bare hands guy is the only one available that's too bad, he can't do the job.

The point of my bad analogy, although it's really good in a painful sort of way, is that you may be better off doing something else till 9/09 and then get the CDL. Just take the time to research and learn and weigh your options before making any sort of decision.

 

[MCBuggyCo]

I thought that was a great analogy. Too bad you left out the customers that want to keep their milk cold on the trip home.

 

[Jim2029]

I would fine something else to do, but I have been doing odd jobs since being layed off from an automotive plant in 7/2006... there is no work in Michigan and I can't keeping doing odd jobs to get by... I figured this would be a good move for me, as i ahve nothing here to tie me down (Single, I don't own a house...) I can be out for very long peroids of time.

 

[LDB]

Jim,

Two of the very best, both at running vans smart and profitably as well as helping others are David and Terry. Terry is out of pocket for a week or so but hopefully David will weigh in pretty soon. Being able to stay out for extended periods of time definitely helps. In answer to one of your questions, based on D units not vans, anyone getting 65% plus 100% of the fsc and only having to pay for fuel, tolls and occ/acc insurance should definitely have money in their pocket.

Using Panther as a guinea pig, lets say you get 65% of the 77cpm base rate. That's 50cpm to the driver. Let's say you get 14mpg overall at $3.50 per gallon gasoline. That's 25cpm for fuel. For every loaded mile you make 25cpm plus however much the fsc is. I believe vans are getting at least 20cpm fsc on almost all runs except for a few crummy customers so you should be making maybe 45cpm for all loaded miles almost all the time and with better fsc customers a good bit more than that.

Keep in mind that deadhead eats 25cpm for fuel out of that and your occ/acc insurance eats 50 miles a week as well so it's not as rosy a picture as it first sounds. If you are in the right place at the right time you can get some good long runs and accumulate some good credits. When you do you've got to hoard that money like it's the last you'll see so when you have a bad week you've got surplus to dip into.

It's a tough business and it's tougher for vans. Go back reading and you'll find my analogy of the swimming pool. That will give another angle on why vans are so challenged. Good luck.

 

[sullivandave]

Mr Bricker is right every parking lot lately has a van sitting waiting for a load. I went to see a movie and there were three of us there all vans differant companies. dave

 

[greg334]

Reason I'm asking is I was going to get a CDL but thanks to a dumb law in Michigan I have to wait till Sept. 2009.

What dumb law in Michigan will make you wait until 9.09?

 

[cheri1122]

If you can't get a CDL until Sept, 09, you have plenty of time to research, because you won't even be able to drive a cargo van without a CDL. (I know that some ads have said "No CDL needed", but I believe that proved to be a misrepresentation, and a CDL is required). Should you find an owner who would put you in a cargo van without having a CDL, it would allow you to see what the income and lifestyle actually are, but I just don"t think it's very likely.
I do understand your frustration with the lack of available jobs. Although Michigan is hard hit, it's everywhere right now, and has been for a few years. I hope things get better for you, and you find a decent job soon.

 

[Jim2029]

What dumb law in Michigan will make you wait until 9.09?

well... its kind of a long story of a bunch of events that lead up to it....

Back in 2006 after getting laid off from Lear Corp. my geo metro threw a rod... and being without steady income, I could not afford to replace the motor. A friend had an old Chevy s10 Flatbed that he used for hauling firewood and deer hunting... He gave it to me so I'd have some wheels. It had over 300,000 miles, wood flatbed, so much rust the cab just sat on the frame... look like krap. Well I kept getting pulled over every time I drove it... Basically they pulled me over for driving an eye sore... kept giving me tickets for 2 over. Well Michigan has that responsibility fee... I got nailed with it and didn't have the money to pay for it, so they suspended my licenses for 30 days. Well in Michigan, if you had a license suspended you can not get a cdl for 36 months (3 years) after.

Thats it in a nut shell... So if I do need a CDL for a cargo van, then I guess I'll just have to wait for about 1 1/2 yrs... But then I'll probably go and drive a T/T, as my old man seams to make a nice living doing it...

Thanks for the info...

Jim

 

[arkjarhead]

Last I heard there were alot of job openings in Wyoming in the oil field business. They make pretty good scratch. I don't know what a roustabout makes but they was going to pay me as a cdl driver 23.00 an hour to start. The company was called St. Mary's Oil Exploration company. You just have to look for the work. Even low men on the river boats make pretty good. If you are single and have nothing tying you down go where the job is then go to Michigan to visit on vacation.

 

[csands007]

I do think you are wrong on no companiies will put you on without an CDL. I'm with one and know around three others

 

[Tom911]

You don't need a CDL driving a cargo van if the gvw is under 10000 lbs, you don't carry hazmat and you are not pulling a trailer. Of course, most carriers you may sign on to may require you to have a CDL. I don't have a CDL since I have my own authority and customers that I work with.

 

[Jack_Berry]

i dunno about the analogy. i kinda like the one with the wifgets.

 

[greg334]

Jim,

Not trying to be deeming and I am not trying to be mean either but..

I was/am in a worst situation than you ever were in so there really isn't much to really holding you back if you want to get a job in the state. There are jobs for people who don't have a home or other responsibilities. They are lower paying than a union wage and they are not cleaning toilets but they are work. I was almost hired in one place not long ago but I could not do the work, it would have killed me in a few months, the pay was about $12 an hour, plenty of money if you don't have a house payment.

I heard like your story the other day when I was looking at a school to go to, I sat in a small group and heard some one cry that he lost his job at some supplier in sterling heights and he wanted to have another high paying job. The guy who was presenting the school info, came out and said, get over it because the jobs are not there, you got to start over.

I am trying to figure out why did it take you more than one ticket to realize that you should not be driving the truck in the first place?

Oh and by the way, Michigan is the least of your worries, getting the CDL is one thing the suspended license is the other, it sets a flag for the insurance that you are high risk and carries must listen to their insurance companies.

 

[Jim2029]

I drove that s-10 for as long as I had to till i was able to save up enough for a better car. Where I live is West Branch, Mi... and its all seasonal and tourist areas here... with gas being so high the tourist have not been coming up here so all of the camp grounds have not been hiring the people they usual did in the past...

I'm not posting this looking for anyone to feel sorry or any thing like that... If need be, I'll goto Mississippi where I can get a CDL using my aunts address and go from there...

 

[RLENT]

Long story short:

There's not enough money in operating an expedite cargo van to support two (a driver and an owner) You would be making poverty wages and the vehicle owner would be getting a poor return on his investment (my opinion only)

Depends on your needs financially I guess .... how little are you willing to settle for as a driver running for an owner ?

If you had your own vehicle you would be in a much better position. You have some things going for you - single, no commitments to a wife and kids, no fixed home expenses, and willing to run.

On the otherhand, it sounds like you aren't in that great a shape financially - and unless you have reserves or adequate credit you are going to be hard pressed to make it in this business, as an owner who has to fund his operating expenses (think about having to fund your fuel and living expenses for almost 3 weeks before you see that 1st settlement)

BTW, the carrier I run for (Bolt Express, in Toledo) does not haul hazmat and does not require a CDL. You could get ahold of Anne, one of the recruiters at Bolt (AnneM is her screen name here on EO) and see if she has any cargo van or non-CDL straight truck owners looking for drivers.

Good luck.

 

[greg334]

I drove that s-10 for as long as I had to till i was able to save up enough for a better car. Where I live is West Branch, Mi... and its all seasonal and tourist areas here... with gas being so high the tourist have not been coming up here so all of the camp grounds have not been hiring the people they usual did in the past...

I'm not posting this looking for anyone to feel sorry or any thing like that... If need be, I'll goto Mississippi where I can get a CDL using my aunts address and go from there...

Well we can have a better tourism in this state, no doubt about that. maybe if there is a change in government it would help - get rid of that *****.

Just remember Jim there are always solutions. I wish you luck.

 

[Jim2029]

I just have one more question here, and I have read back about 1 1/2 years and didn't see it asked....

Now I understand when an ad says Drivers pays for fuel... I mean, thats self explanatory... but when it goes on and says drivers pays %100 FSC (fuel surge charge)... Whats the fuel surge charge... a tax???

Thanks.
Jim

 

[LDB]

It should be saying driver receives 100% fsc. That's extra money above the contract rate that the customer pays to have their freight hauled. It's to help normalize fuel prices. The side paying for the fuel should get 100% of any fsc paid on the job.

 

[P51bombay]

Well in Michigan, if you had a license suspended you can not get a cdl for 36 months (3 years) after.

If that is only in MI, simple answer...................MOVE - granted moving ain't cheap either but it solves your problem. Plus there are loads of long haul jobs out there and many will pay your CDL training, although you would need to stay there for a period of time or have to pay it back if you leave early. It was my understanding you don't need a CDL for anything up to 26K, or does that vary by state? Its that way in WA anyway.