CARB may loosen rules

zorry

Veteran Expediter
As long as the truck is legal why would the carrier care?

There could be carriers that would avoid it because they want to be "Green".
Or want to utilize the equipment they bought for the Ca miles.
Or don't care to do the extra mileage reporting, which quite frankly won't be much of a task.
There's a lot of money involved. Equipment makers won't like it.

In all honesty, it'll probably go as most with older equipment would wish.
That thought just popped out at me and I like to play Devil's advocate.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
They didn't count the reefers so I am just wondering if it is just the possibility of a toilet paper shortage they are worried about?:cool:
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
What they should do is make it 10,000 miles a year until 2020. 95% of the trucks by then will have everything that California is asking truck owners to have on their trucks anyway. It's a Win/Win for everyone.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
What they should do is make it 10,000 miles a year until 2020. 95% of the trucks by then will have everything that California is asking truck owners to have on their trucks anyway. It's a Win/Win for everyone.

And the very same thing would be true if they had passed no CARB rules at all that are retroactive on older trucks. In the natural course of things, trucks age and get replaced. Instead of wreaking havoc on the industry with regulatory overreach, CARB could have simply applied new regs to new trucks and let the old ones age out on their own.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Does anyone read into this that you may need your carriers support to get into this program ?
Could a carrier say "We like the idea of newer, possibly safer, more dependable trucks coming into our fleet. With this thinking we are not going to help, or allow, these older trucks to run Ca freight for us." ?

Safety and dependability are not a function of truck age. Indeed, you can make the case that government regulation has done more to make trucks undependable than anything else. The biodiesel mandate in Minnesota forced many trucks in Minnesota to buy rotten fuel and break down on the side of the road when winter struck. That was a one-time thing until the fuel was fixed, but it was a case where government regulation made many trucks break down.

And those brand-new tree-hugger trucks have not been exactly trouble-free, have they? How many times has it happened that new EPA-mandated technology has required trucks to return to the shop again and again and again?

Our carrier does not age out trucks. It allows trucks of any age to run, as long as they are safe and legal. The company's CSA/SMS scores attest to the fact that an "ageless" fleet can be a safe fleet.

The carrier requires three DOT inspections per year, and the inspections are the real deal, no corners are cut. Drivers are not in control of the inspections because the company pays for them (you pay if the truck fails inspection) and the inspectors (approved by the carrier) send reports directly to the company. If something is found wrong, that's it, the truck does not haul freight until it is brought into compliance.

When you go into the shop and an inspection begins, whatever happens next and whatever is found is reported immediately and directly to the company, and if the truck is not up to snuff, it is put out of service. If the driver stops the inspection mid-stream, that is reported to the carrier and the truck is put out of service. If an inspection is not done at the required time, the truck is put out of service.

I can see the corporate people at FedEx Custom Critical adopting the line of thinking you suggest in your post (they have truck age limits), but there is nothing in the real world of trucking to suggest that just because a truck is new, it is also safer or more reliable.

A fleet owner who puts a moron in a brand-new truck is more likely to see that truck break down or a DOT violation to be cited than one who puts a smart and conscientious driver in a decade-old truck. (Like if a bulb is found not working, change it, dummy! Or if a tire is found to be low, air it up you lazy fool!).
 
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zorry

Veteran Expediter
I agree to a point. Newer technology, particularly in braking systems and lighting, probably means overall better scores.
Landstar is different than most. More one truck operations than others.
If you put fleet drivers in most older trucks, they won't do as well as the owner driving the same older truck.

Phil, look around at the other LEA trucks. Do you believe they are as safe and dependable as your, better than average, older truck ? They pass the 120 day inspection. Theres more to being safe/ reliable than passing a truckstop inspection.

I believe any carrier really serious about inspections sets up "in-house" inspections.

Mercer requires every other inspection to be done at "corporate" in Louisville.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Phil, look around at the other LEA trucks. Do you believe they are as safe and dependable as your, better than average, older truck ? They pass the 120 day inspection. Theres more to being safe/ reliable than passing a truckstop inspection.

Be careful about assuming what a "truck stop" inspection is. I was amazed to see the difference when we moved from FedEx Custom Critical to Landstar. When we went to the same kind of truck stops to get Landstar DOT inspections done, it was amazing, and totally different thatn what we experienced with FedEx Custom Critical.

With our former carrier, we'd go in, ask for a DOT, bring our own form, pay for the inspection that was seldom done well, be happy to pass and send the form in.

With Landstar, we have no forms. The truck stop keeps them in the drawer and maintains a chain of custody. A driver cannot alter a form because he or she does not receive a copy until it has been completed and a copy is on its way to Landstar. When we say we want a Landstar DOT, a Landstar-approved inspector does the work. It might be the same guy that did inspections for our former carrier but the difference was like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. On Landstar inspections, these guys are diligent, thorough and unyielding.

This is because Landstar tracks their performance and holds them accountable. If they pass something and a violation is found soon after, and if a pattern of that develops, that shop is put on probation and not permitted to do Landstar inspections. It is also very much in the shop's best interest to find something that needs fixing, because, with Landstar's stringent policies, the repair will likely be done on the spot (an appeal/second-opinion process exists to protect BCO's from mechanics who abuse the policy).

Twice, I have argued with mechanics over what constitutes a violation and what does not. They held their ground because they have PERSONALLY talked with people in Landstar who regularly interact with the truck stop people who do Landstar inspections. They do not want to be suspended from doing these inspections and they do not give way.

Both times, I had to call Landstar to get the mechanic to see reason. I prevailed once and the mechanic passed the truck, but only after Landstar called them mid-inspection to say I was right. It turned out that I was right the second time too but we allowed the contested truck modification to be made because we had to keep going under load and there was not time to sit and argue up the Landstar chain. When we were later found to be correct, Landstar made it right and paid us for the modification (White L reflective tape on the top rear of straight trucks). They then changed their policy to require this tape on straight trucks even though the law does not.

The point is, Landstar takes truck-stop DOT inspections very seriously and the inspection you receive at a truck stop when you request a Landstar DOT inspection is remarkably different than the inspections we received at the very-same truck stops when we requested a FedEx Custom Critical DOT inspection.

Based on this experience, I can say that, yes, absolutely, the average Landstar Express America truck is safer and more reliable than the average non-LEAM expediter truck of the same age.

Granted, some of the older trucks in the Landstar fleet look very-much the worse for wear. But if you look beneath the cosmetics, you will almost always find a truck that will pass a DOT inspection.

Need more proof? Go to the FMCSA site and compare the SMS Vehicle Maintenance BASIC scores of various carriers. You will find that LEAM's scores are roughly twice as good as FedEx Custom Critical's and Panther's, and FDCC has age limits on its trucks!
 
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zorry

Veteran Expediter
That's good to hear.
I had a very minor item caught at the TA in DeMotte In and was very happy that he caught it before a roadside did.
When I pay for an inspection, I want an inspection.
If I feel the mechanic "mailed-it-in" I avoid that shop in the future.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
The second shift guys at the Wheeling, WV TA have done a fantastic job every time. Some of the others have been hit or miss.

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layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
We avoid truck stops for DOT's if at all possible. We almost always get them done when we are at home. That way, if we have a problem and they truck is down for a while we are home. We also try to get them at the same shop all the time.
 

SHARP327

Veteran Expediter
I think that during my 9.5 years at Landstar I've only had one truck stop 120 day inspection and that was at the Petro in El Paso, Tx., where they said there was an air leak coming from the passenger side front wheel area and was told to pull around back....on the way to the Back I stopped and sprayed some soapy water on the area....no leak!....the mechanic said OOooh! it must have fixed it's self...I called Landstar and gave them a heads up about a crooked mechanic.
 

RETIDEPXE

Veteran Expediter
The interesting thing about the 5,000 mi/yr limit is where the running total of miles for the year comes from. I suppose it is self reporting. Are they going to be sending out auditors to check, or ask you to prove it at a roadside inspection? I don't think we are required to carry our IFTA reports with us on the road are we? Just like any other gubment agency trying to call the shots, acting upon it and trying to enforce their regs are way over their ever - lovin heads.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
The interesting thing about the 5,000 mi/yr limit is where the running total of miles for the year comes from. I suppose it is self reporting. Are they going to be sending out auditors to check, or ask you to prove it at a roadside inspection? I don't think we are required to carry our IFTA reports with us on the road are we?

The news story about this says that IFTA records will be reviewed when carriers are audited. Those recoreds are kept by the carrier, not the truck driver. If the rule change is made, we'll be hearing more about the mechanisms that will be used to enforce it.
 
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zorry

Veteran Expediter
Stop the presses!
If I'm reading Overdrive right the 5,000 mile exemption may apply to real low mileage trucks.
5000 miles per year, in all states, not just in California.

They can't make up their mind. Is Obama running CARB now ?

My guess is they are working with farm trucks, specialized equipment, movie vehicles.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Stop the presses!
If I'm reading Overdrive right the 5,000 mile exemption may apply to real low mileage trucks.
5000 miles per year, in all states, not just in California.

They can't make up their mind. Is Obama running CARB now ?

My guess is they are working with farm trucks, specialized equipment, movie vehicles.

What are you reading exactly? What leads you to this conclusion?
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
Overdriveonline.com
There's a pair of stories. The lead is about Drivers in Solidarity with a Dispatcher.
The second part is what I'm trying to decipher. The last paragraph is an update dated today.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Here is a link to the story in question. I don't know what deciphering can be done given the information provided. My guess is that things are going on behind the scenes that are giving rise to these strange releases of information (formal and informal). All we can do is wait and see.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
I was confused about the idea of allowing a lot of dirty trucks to run a lot of miles.
It just seemed so contrary to their mission.
Allowing actual low mileage trucks to run makes sense and probably improves relations with local people with valued opinions.
 

jjoerger

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Army
Starting to sound like there getting there info from the truck stop lunch counters. Maybe they should wait for CARB to issue the info.

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