Cap & Trade

Dreammaker

Seasoned Expediter
The Democrats and Republicans who voted for this must not have their country's best interest at heart. Here is an article from commentarymagazine.com.

Declaring War on the American Economy
John Steele Gordon - 06.27.2009 - 5:01 PM

The Cap-and-Trade bill that passed the House yesterday will be a declaration of war on the American economy if it ever is enacted into law. It is ostensibly supposed to help the American economy transition from the old, carbon-based industrial economy to the broad, sunlit (and presumably unpolluted) uplands of a post-industrial one. According to an infomercial masquerading as an AP news story, the “climate bill may spur energy revolution.” Overlooked by the AP and other minions of the left is the fact that that revolution has been underway, largely without the federal government’s help, for more than a generation now. In 1970 a one-percent increase in GDP meant a one-percent increase in oil consumption. Today its means less than a third of one percent increase in oil consumption. It would be considerably less than that had the left not brought the development and exploitation of nuclear power to a screeching halt thirty years ago because too many of them went to see The China Syndrome. (The producers, to be sure, arranged, in a stroke of commercial genius, for the movie to open twelve days before the accident at Three-Mile Island occurred.)

And as Kim Strassel pointed out yesterday in the Wall Street Journal, the so-called science behind this massive bill is looking increasingly shaky.

If it’s enacted in its present form, what the cap-and-trade bill will certainly do is

1) Massively increase federal power not only over the economy but over daily life as well. Building codes have always been the province of the states, but this bill, according to one blogger, would require federally mandated energy audits before you could change a window in your home and specifies the number and location of electrical outlets to be permitted;

2) Start a trade war with India and China by slapping tariffs on goods from countries that don’t conform to US standards on carbon emissions;

3) Act like the governor on a steam engine, increasingly slowing down the economy through energy taxes whenever the economy accelerates. In other words, its virtually guarantees economic stagnation at best. And most economists who are not working for liberals think it will be far more economically pernicious than that.

This last, at least, is in the great tradition of the Democratic Party. The party’s founder, Thomas Jefferson, tried to deal with the high-handed ways of the Royal Navy and French privateers by a blockade–not of their ports, but of ours. Thomas Jefferson, in other words, went to war with the American economy. In a series of acts beginning in December, 1807, that Congress passed at Jefferson’s behest, American merchants were forbidden to trade with any other country on pain of fines of $10,000 and forfeiture of goods. The U.S. Navy was dispatched to help enforce the act by stopping vessels leaving American ports. Port cities (which at that time were all large American cities and many small ones) plunged into depression. Smuggling across the Canadian border grew so extensive that Jefferson actually declared parts of northern New England to be in a state of rebellion. The New England economy came close to collapse as it was then heavily dependent on foreign trade. (The American merchant marine at this time–mostly New England owned and built–was second in size only to Britain’s.)

The Embargo Act was, politically and economically, an utter disaster, as anyone who understood anything about commerce, economics, and human nature could have foreseen. Indeed, Jefferson’s Secretary of the Treasury, Albert Gallatin, did understand and wrote the president, “As to the hope that it may. . . induce England to treat us better, I think is entirely groundless. . . . Government prohibitions do always more mischief than had been calculated; and it is not without much hesitation that a statesman should hazard to regulate the concerns of individuals as if he could do it better than themselves.”

Good advice from a very wise man who did this country many a good service. Too bad Thomas Jefferson didn’t take it. Nor, alas, will his present-day successor if he gets a chance to sign this utterly misbegotten bill.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The Democrats and Republicans who voted for this must not have their country's best interest at heart. Here is an article from commentarymagazine.com.

Declaring War on the American Economy
John Steele Gordon - 06.27.2009 - 5:01 PM

The Cap-and-Trade bill that passed the House yesterday will be a declaration of war on the American economy if it ever is enacted into law. It is ostensibly supposed to help the American economy transition from the old, carbon-based industrial economy to the broad, sunlit (and presumably unpolluted) uplands of a post-industrial one. According to an infomercial masquerading as an AP news story, the “climate bill may spur energy revolution.” Overlooked by the AP and other minions of the left is the fact that that revolution has been underway, largely without the federal government’s help, for more than a generation now. In 1970 a one-percent increase in GDP meant a one-percent increase in oil consumption. Today its means less than a third of one percent increase in oil consumption. It would be considerably less than that had the left not brought the development and exploitation of nuclear power to a screeching halt thirty years ago because too many of them went to see The China Syndrome. (The producers, to be sure, arranged, in a stroke of commercial genius, for the movie to open twelve days before the accident at Three-Mile Island occurred.)

And as Kim Strassel pointed out yesterday in the Wall Street Journal, the so-called science behind this massive bill is looking increasingly shaky.

If it’s enacted in its present form, what the cap-and-trade bill will certainly do is

1) Massively increase federal power not only over the economy but over daily life as well. Building codes have always been the province of the states, but this bill, according to one blogger, would require federally mandated energy audits before you could change a window in your home and specifies the number and location of electrical outlets to be permitted;

2) Start a trade war with India and China by slapping tariffs on goods from countries that don’t conform to US standards on carbon emissions;

3) Act like the governor on a steam engine, increasingly slowing down the economy through energy taxes whenever the economy accelerates. In other words, its virtually guarantees economic stagnation at best. And most economists who are not working for liberals think it will be far more economically pernicious than that.

This last, at least, is in the great tradition of the Democratic Party. The party’s founder, Thomas Jefferson, tried to deal with the high-handed ways of the Royal Navy and French privateers by a blockade–not of their ports, but of ours. Thomas Jefferson, in other words, went to war with the American economy. In a series of acts beginning in December, 1807, that Congress passed at Jefferson’s behest, American merchants were forbidden to trade with any other country on pain of fines of $10,000 and forfeiture of goods. The U.S. Navy was dispatched to help enforce the act by stopping vessels leaving American ports. Port cities (which at that time were all large American cities and many small ones) plunged into depression. Smuggling across the Canadian border grew so extensive that Jefferson actually declared parts of northern New England to be in a state of rebellion. The New England economy came close to collapse as it was then heavily dependent on foreign trade. (The American merchant marine at this time–mostly New England owned and built–was second in size only to Britain’s.)

The Embargo Act was, politically and economically, an utter disaster, as anyone who understood anything about commerce, economics, and human nature could have foreseen. Indeed, Jefferson’s Secretary of the Treasury, Albert Gallatin, did understand and wrote the president, “As to the hope that it may. . . induce England to treat us better, I think is entirely groundless. . . . Government prohibitions do always more mischief than had been calculated; and it is not without much hesitation that a statesman should hazard to regulate the concerns of individuals as if he could do it better than themselves.”

Good advice from a very wise man who did this country many a good service. Too bad Thomas Jefferson didn’t take it. Nor, alas, will his present-day successor if he gets a chance to sign this utterly misbegotten bill.


Greg and I and MAYBE a few others KNOW of what the LEFT planned all the way back to 1918. OH well, that is that. I am SO glad that I will NEVER see the death and pain that this course we are headed down will lead to. You cannot blame me. I will rest easy.:eek:
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
But goldman was one of the companies that got bailed out, right? They leveraged their lobbying efforts to get funding while Leaman brothers went under. I think I got that right.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
But goldman was one of the companies that got bailed out, right? They leveraged their lobbying efforts to get funding while Leaman brothers went under. I think I got that right.


It really does not matter Greg, just check your ear. That is where they are "putting it" for you!! Both parties. :(
 

DougTravels

Not a Member
Greg and I and MAYBE a few others KNOW of what the LEFT planned all the way back to 1918. OH well, that is that. I am SO glad that I will NEVER see the death and pain that this course we are headed down will lead to. You cannot blame me. I will rest easy.:eek:

Back in 1918 when you were a young man the world was quite different. Those who cannot adapt become extinct.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Back in 1918 when you were a young man the world was quite different. Those who cannot adapt become extinct.


I don't think you know of what we speak on this, Doug. If by adapt you mean give up everything that I believe in to agree with a Soviet style state, then yes, they will extinct me. I will not do that.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Layout Doug got his history from Kellogg's and the DNC... he doesn't want to read or learn.

There is a lot more to it than what we are saying, I hope that your children adapt well to the new economy and the new country because you are laying the foundation for them to be enslaved by debt and what others will tell them to do.

If you don't believe me, just take a pick of any of the following, simply read about the highlights;

Soviet union's famine of the 1920s

Germany's pre-war slave labor camps

Italy 1923 to 1930

There are places on the I N T E R N E T that you can find very simple explanations of these three subject that you could even grasp. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for your kids because they will need all the help they can get when they are your age.

The people back then never thought it would go so far but it did and we are on the same path because of lazy and ignorant people who would rather mourn the lost of an entertainer then to be concern with their lives and what is happening around them.
 

Poorboy

Expert Expediter
Re: Cap & Trade Investigation

Senator Inhofe from Oklahoma said that he and Other Senators are Calling for an Investigation into Why the EPA And Obumma are Trying to Cover Up an EPA Report that Basically Says that it Isn't Necessary for the Cap and Trade Bill because the Supposed Emissions Are Less Now than in the Middle of the 20th Century! The Senator Also said that the Cap and Trade Bill is Now D.O.A. Because there will be Millions of Job Losses If it is Allowed to be Law Due to Outsourcing of Jobs, And that it would Heavily Put a Very Large Tax Burden On the Middle Class! :D
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Well there is a question of how do we force other countries to comply with our laws and how do we protect our workforce from the use of cheap labor - the answer is we can't.

If we try to force the hand of India, who actually is a very dirty country, we will have a backlash through the international community because India is considered a "developing" country (it isn't). We can raise tariffs on imports from India or restrict off shore work but raising tariffs will cause us losses in our economy and restrictions will only force the companies to complain to the government.
 

Dreammaker

Seasoned Expediter
Call your Senator, no doubt.

Here is the math for Cap and Trade:

Given this staggering cost, I hope you‟ll ask: will cap and trade work? If Europe‟s experience with cap and trade is an indication, the answer is “no”.
With much fanfare, the European Union (EU) adopted a cap and trade scheme in an effort to meet their Kyoto commitments to cut CO2 emissions to below 1990 levels by 2012. How are they doing? So far, all but one EU country is getting an “F”. Since 2000 Europe‟s CO2 emissions per unit of GDP have grown faster than the U.S.! The U.S. of course did not implement Kyoto – nor did over 150 other countries. There‟s a good reason why most of the world rejected Kyoto: with today‟s energy technologies there‟s no way to sever the link between CO2 emissions and modern life. Europe‟s cap and trade scheme was designed to fail – and it‟s working as designed.
Let‟s do the math to explain why Kyoto would have failed in the U.S. and why Obama‟s cap and trade scheme is also likely to fail. Americans were responsible for about 5 billion metric tons of CO2 emissions in 1990. By 2005 that amount had risen to over 5.8 billion tons. If the U.S. Senate had ratified the Kyoto treaty back in the 1990s America would‟ve promised to cut manmade CO2 emissions in this country to 7% below that 1990 level – to about 4.6 billion tons, a 1.2 billion ton per year cut by 2012.
What would it take to cut U.S. CO2 emissions by 1.2 billion tons per year by 2012? A lot more sacrifice than riding a Schwinn to work or school, or changing light bulbs.
We could‟ve banned gasoline. In 2005 gasoline use in America caused about 1.1B tons of CO2. That would almost get us there. Or, we could shut down over half of the coal-fired power plants in this country. Coal plants generated about 2 B tons of CO2 in 2005. Of course, before we did that we‟d have to get over 60 million Americans and a bunch of American businesses to volunteer to go without electricity.

This simple math is not friendly to those who demand that government mandate sharp cuts in manmade CO2 emissions – now.

This was taken from a commencement speech at Utah Valley University by Keith Rattie, CEO of Questar Corporation. To read the whole address, here's the link: Questar Corporation. Click on the speech on the right side of the page.
 
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