Canada canada speed limiters,what to do

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
No matter how you look at it really is a win/win for everyone. Safer speed plus better mpg.
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
maybe better mpg,depending how the ECM rations the fuel at the lower RPM's,but the issue of safer doesnt apply.If two trucks,lets say JB Hunt at 80000 lbs,and Schneider at 78000 lbs,start up a hill,Schneider pulls out to pass,as he is lighter and will be ever so slightly faster,what happens to those running 65 comming up behind them?
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
Thanks RobA for the link,I was wondering more how it wil be enforced.Wil it be a question ya get at the gate? any guns,weapons,and do you have a limiter.If you say you do,wil they accept a recite from a sevice center or wil they be able to plug into you trk and check the codes.I am thinking in term of how it wil get enforced and the conceqenses for non compliance.I understand there not going to info the trks how there going to enforce it,wondering how you think they might.I drive a van,i do have a d unit with a solo and he doesn't get up there much.However when he does go it pays pretty well and with things being tough i don't want to limit him [pardon the pun] I hope the 6 month thing is in effect it would be helpful.

As I already posted,you have a limiter you don't need to buy another,it's in the ECM of your vehicle,and speed can be dialed in where ever you want it.Garage hooks up a computer to your OBD port,its that simple.Same way They will do at the scale in Canada to see where your speed is set.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
maybe better mpg,depending how the ECM rations the fuel at the lower RPM's,but the issue of safer doesnt apply.If two trucks,lets say JB Hunt at 80000 lbs,and Schneider at 78000 lbs,start up a hill,Schneider pulls out to pass,as he is lighter and will be ever so slightly faster,what happens to those running 65 coming up behind them?

What happens? either they have to slowdown or push that pumpkin up that hill.....

Ya know what the resistance is? You all down here don't like the gov. telling you what to do...thats the only difference..
And yet you tolerate how many different state laws on the most ridulous things?
Look at Washington state now...you must carry a spare set of chains around!! Thats like mandating a spare, spare tire.
Ohios stupid 55mph and a trooper every 10 miles.

So before you slam another country, you be best to look in your own front yard.
 
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nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
OVM said

"before you slam another country, you be best to look in your own front yard".

The limiters as far as I'm concerned are not a safe way of governing your speed.Yes Ohio has patrol cars every 10 miles,the other 55 mph states inforce their speed laws too.Not wanting my truck governed to what ever speed is what it is.I have been over 100 mph in a truck,30 years ago,there were not near as many vehicles on the highways.There are many reasons to slow down,and another thing,I have nothing against the Canada laws,but how about the law that restricts pulling a 53 foot trailer with a tractor that has a wheel base longer than 244 inches.Does that make sence to you.Sure in the western provinces,with the hills and narrow roads,it does,but in Ontario,come on,explain that to me.Here in the lower 48 we have tractor trailers 80 feet long,they have no problem.So dont start with me about knocking Canada.I only commented on the speed limitation
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Gettin a little testy there OVM?

Oh just a tad..Jim....I also know you guys knock some states as well.....

Isn't it Ontario that put a TT outta service because they don't allow a driver tighten their own slack adjusters ? That doesn't make sense either...
I would have preferred enforcement over legislation.
 

Scuba

Veteran Expediter
My last truck had an ISX and i went to Cummings web site and downloaded the engine program for free and with a cable i could change my settings at will
 

pellgrn

Expert Expediter
Thanks nightcreacher,that's the info part i was looking for.As to good or bad that's a topic for another thread.The what to do is me just wondering how this wil effect your loads into Canada,as i said don't do much about 10% of all loads and even less in my vans.
 

Streakn1

Veteran Expediter
Our carrier has a neat way of handling Canadian loads since was are to long of a tractor wheelbase for Canadian laws. They rent a tractor at the boarder and we pull our trailer with it or they hire a service to hook our trailer and one of us rides along for the trip in and out of Canada. That inables us to be with our trailer plus we don't have to deal with having a speed limiter put on our truck just to satisfy a Canadian law that would rarely apply to us.
 
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Crazynuff

Veteran Expediter
No matter how you look at it really is a win/win for everyone. Safer speed plus better mpg.
Not all would agree with that . University of Arkansas - Daily Headlines
Thank you Mister/Madam Chairman for inviting me to testify before this committee
And this from the study conducted by the Ontario government to learn the effects of speed limiters . " As the volume is set close to capacity (2000 vehicles per hour per lane) more vehicle interactions take place and this leads to a reduction in safety especially for those segments with increased merging and lane-change activity, such as, on and off ramp segments. In these instances the introduction of truck speed limiters can actually reduce the level of safety when compared to the non limiter case. "
There has never been one bit of data stating speed limiters or split speed limits improve safety . As for better mpg , when other traffic and lighter trucks have to brake and accelerate because of congestion caused by a speed limited truck slowing to 60 m.p.h. and the truck passing it is limited to 65 m.p.h. , fuel economy of all vehicles suffer .
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
Gary,1st of year ,if your to run Canada,that truck they rent you will be governed to 65,so it will be much better for you than the rest.Can you picture being stuck in 6o mph trafic jam here in the lower 48 ,cause of trucks governed at 65
 

simon says

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Well, I doubt the mellonheads want you to stay out of Ontario. If that were the case, then all their plants would close...Same business with Chinese-made products- would you like to see all the clothing stores close? My self, I really do not want to go back to loin cloths. I even have a nice Docker's leather coat- you guessed it: China.
The new law is a safety issue, and we think it based on mis-information- Yes? However, I rarely drive faster than 65, and I have my own cruise speed set at 72. I would not mind the policy, except that the so-called professionals out here may run you off the run to get by you; right?
 

Streakn1

Veteran Expediter
Our commercial vehicle driving records (over 30 yrs combined accident/ticket free) are a testimony to safety and safety issues when it comes to can a CDL driver be trusted to drive safely without a speed limiter forcefully being placed on their (my) truck. No speed limiter here!!!
 
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Crazynuff

Veteran Expediter
Well, I doubt the mellonheads want you to stay out of Ontario. If that were the case, then all their plants would close...Same business with Chinese-made products- would you like to see all the clothing stores close? My self, I really do not want to go back to loin cloths. I even have a nice Docker's leather coat- you guessed it: China.
The new law is a safety issue, and we think it based on mis-information- Yes? However, I rarely drive faster than 65, and I have my own cruise speed set at 72. I would not mind the policy, except that the so-called professionals out here may run you off the run to get by you; right?

They also used environmental arguments to push the bill through claiming reduced greenhouse gases . But they used the results of surveys done when most trucks didn't have DPF's . Of course studies in the next few years will show reduced greenhouses gases . There will be a much higher percentage of trucks with DPF's . They also claimed a reduction of fuel consumption . They speed limiters will be set 5 km/h over the speed limit . Was the OPP really allowing so much speeding the limiters will save that much fuel ?
 
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RobA

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
First of all; Merry Christmas to all readers of this Forum. I trust everyone had an enjoyable holiday. I sincerely hope that 2009 will not be as bad as predicted and that people will all enjoy good health.

I am usually the first to rise and defend my country and it's often arcane laws and regulations. This time I cannot.

This law was sponsored by the OTA(the Ontario Trucking Association) and it's head lobbyist David Bradley. The Provincial Government was never interested in hearing opposing views and basically pushed it through.
Bradley stated that "Ontario is an important trucking market so trucks registered in other jurisdictions will have to comply."
The motoring public in Ontario is opposed to speeding trucks and ambivilent towards issues facing the trucking industry.

The law is in place, but I don't know how they plan to enforce it.
Maybe there will be a period of warning, the "Educational Phase" they usually call it and then it will go into the background only to be used when the police need another charge to lay in an investigation.

I still urge you to contact the ministers whose addresses I supplied in an earlier message so they know what the trucks based outside Ontario actually plan to do.
 

FIS53

Veteran Expediter
The law will be enforced by the MTO (ministry) at the scale houses and roadside inspections. This means that more of us will be pulled over and checked for this limited item and it gives them an excuse to pull over any and all commercial vehicles over 10,000#.

Most inspectors will have available to them an ecm reader that they plug into the cable from your computer to read the speed limit set therein and will upto June only be giving you a warning and informing of the new law. The fines are not going to be too bad but unfortunately a fine is an out of pocket expense none of us needs as well as being pulled over and inspected 3 times going from Windsor to Toronto.

Tests have proven that a truck going 65mph uses less fuel than one doing over 70mph. A lot of trucks have been travelling at 70 and over either in a hurry, late for whatever reason and such. Some of the accidents we've seen on the highways are from speeding trucks and of course some 4 wheeler interference. Therefore the large fleets in the OTA have decided this would be a great idea to save fuel and force everyone to a level playing field. Most of the larger fleets already limit their trucks to under 70mph anyways so this is a method to make their independant competion do the same and not be able to deliver faster.

However we still have an advantage over the larger fleet trucks. Even doing the same speeds as they do. Many of their drivers pull over more often for the john or a coffee than what the average expeditor does as we are more concerned with being at or near the delivery point before we relax. Therefore we can get ahead of these fleet boys quite often.

Last weekend I did a run to Montreal from Mississauga in the snow storm (got the run because of flight delays) and I still managed it in 6 hours driving at a whopping 50-55mph at best. My truck got great fuel economy going. As roads were better coming back and the head wind of course I used more coming back. But fact was I did not stop for anything, just kept the wheels rolling.

BTW it might be my imagination but I found the road clearing in Quebec seemed a bit on the lax side this trip. Not sure if the snow tire reg has anything to do with that.
Rob
 

piper1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
BTW it might be my imagination but I found the road clearing in Quebec seemed a bit on the lax side this trip. Not sure if the snow tire reg has anything to do with that.
Rob

Don't know how far into the swamp you went but A20 is always an afterthought west of the island, guess they figure it's only used by "les anglais".
 

pjjjjj

Veteran Expediter
I believe the reference above to CMVs over 10000# is inaccurate. From the information I have been able to obtain, the following is the most current available, and can be found at the links listed. I have included the actual wording as well.

Commerical Vehicle Impoundment Program (CVIP) (posted December 24/08 and referencing the following links:)
Highway Traffic Act, R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8
Highway Traffic Act - R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 587

The Legislation reads:

Note: On a day to be named by proclamation of the Lieutenant Governor, Part VI is amended by the Statutes of Ontario, 2008, chapter 8, section 1 by adding the following section:
Speed-limiting systems

Required use by commercial motor vehicles

68.1 (1) No person shall drive, or permit the operation of, a commercial motor vehicle on a highway unless the vehicle is equipped with a speed-limiting system that is activated and functioning in accordance with the regulations. 2008, c. 8, s. 1.

Same

(2) Except as authorized by the regulations, no person shall,

(a) deactivate, or permit a person to deactivate, a commercial motor vehicle’s speed-limiting system; or

(b) modify, or permit a person to modify, a commercial motor vehicle’s speed-limiting system such that it ceases to function in accordance with the regulations. 2008, c. 8, s. 1.

Tampering device prohibited

(3) No person shall drive, or permit the operation of, a commercial motor vehicle on a highway if the vehicle is equipped with, has attached to it or carries,

(a) a prescribed device or prescribed equipment; or

(b) another device or equipment that is designed to disguise the fact that the vehicle is not equipped with a speed-limiting system that is activated and functioning in accordance with the regulations. 2008, c. 8, s. 1.

Verifying compliance

(4) A police officer or officer appointed for carrying out the provisions of this Act, in exercising his or her powers under section 82 or 216.1, may require that the driver or other person in charge of a commercial motor vehicle,

(a) provide the officer with access to the vehicle’s computer system in order to retrieve and read any information relevant to the activation and functioning of the vehicle’s speed-limiting system;

(b) surrender to the officer any device or equipment carried in the vehicle that operates as part of the vehicle’s speed-limiting system; and

(c) surrender to the officer any records that the driver is required by the regulations to carry with him or her while driving the vehicle. 2008, c. 8, s. 1.

Same

(5) A driver or other person in charge of a commercial motor vehicle shall comply with any requirement made under subsection (4) by a police officer or officer appointed for carrying out the provisions of this Act. 2008, c. 8, s. 1.

Seizure of tampering device

(6) If a police officer or officer appointed for carrying out the provisions of this Act finds a device or equipment prohibited by subsection (3) in the course of any inspection of a commercial motor vehicle, he or she may detach, if necessary, and seize any such device or equipment. 2008, c. 8, s. 1.

Sale of tampering devices prohibited

(7) No person shall sell, offer or advertise for sale a device or equipment prohibited by subsection (3). 2008, c. 8, s. 1.

Offence

(8) Every person who contravenes or fails to comply with subsection (1), (2), (3), (5) or (7), or a regulation made under this section, is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $250 and not more than $20,000. 2008, c. 8, s. 1.

Evidentiary presumption

(9) In any proceeding under this section and in the absence of evidence to the contrary, proof that a commercial motor vehicle was driven on a highway at a speed equal to or greater than the speed prescribed for the purpose of this subsection is proof that the vehicle was not equipped with a speed-limiting system that was activated and functioning as required by subsection (1). 2008, c. 8, s. 1.

Forfeiture of tampering device

(10) Where a person is convicted of an offence under subsection (3), any device or equipment seized under subsection (6) by means of which the offence was committed is forfeited to the Crown. 2008, c. 8, s. 1.

Regulations

(11) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations,

(a) defining “commercial motor vehicle” for the purposes of this section;

(b) prescribing standards for speed-limiting systems;

(c) governing the activation and functioning of speed-limiting systems, including prescribing and governing the speed at which speed-limiting systems must be set and prescribing different speed settings for different circumstances;

(d) prescribing devices and equipment for the purpose of clause (3) (a);

(e) governing methods to verify compliance with this section and the regulations, including prescribing devices and software to be used to retrieve and read information in computer systems;

(f) prescribing the speed for the purpose of subsection (9);

(g) requiring and governing the inspection and maintenance of speed-limiting systems;

(h) governing records to be kept and submitted in relation to the inspection, maintenance, activation and functioning of speed-limiting systems;

(i) governing records to be kept and carried by drivers in relation to the activation and functioning of speed-limiting systems;

(j) exempting any person or class of persons or any commercial motor vehicle or class of commercial motor vehicles from any requirement or provision of this section or of a regulation made under this section and prescribing conditions and circumstances for any such exemption. 2008, c. 8, s. 1.
===============================================

Note: On January 1, 2009, the Regulation is amended by adding the following heading and sections:

Speed-Limiting Systems

12. For the purposes of section 68.1 of the Act,

“commercial motor vehicle” means a commercial motor vehicle as defined in subsection 1 (1) of the Act. O. Reg. 396/08, s. 1.

13. (1) A commercial motor vehicle is exempt from subsections 68.1 (1), (2), (3) and (6) of the Act if it is,

(a) a bus;

(b) a mobile crane;

(c) a motor home;

(d) a vehicle manufactured before 1995;

(e) a vehicle with a manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating under 11,794 kilograms; or (Writer's Note: 11794 Kg = 26001 Lb)

(f) an ambulance, a cardiac arrest emergency vehicle, or a fire apparatus. O. Reg. 396/08, s. 1.

(2) For the purposes of clauses 1 (d) and (e), the date that a commercial motor vehicle was manufactured and its manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating shall be deemed, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to be,

(a) the date and weight on the commercial motor vehicle’s compliance label; or

(b) where a commercial motor vehicle does not have a compliance label affixed or the label is illegible, a document from the vehicle’s manufacturer that is carried by the driver and that references the vehicle’s vehicle identification number and indicates its year of manufacture and gross vehicle weight rating. O. Reg. 396/08, s. 1.

(3) A commercial motor vehicle is exempt from subsection 68.1 (1) of the Act if,

(a) it is not equipped with an electronic control module capable of being programmed to limit vehicle speed;

(b) it is engaged in providing relief in an emergency, being a situation or impending situation that constitutes a danger of major proportions to life, property or the environment, whether caused by forces of nature, an accident, an intentional act or otherwise; or

(c) it is operated by or on behalf of a municipality, road authority, public utility or of the government of Ontario or of Canada while responding to a situation or impending situation that constitutes an imminent danger, though not one of major proportions, to life, property or the environment, whether caused by forces of nature, an accident, an intentional act or otherwise. O. Reg. 396/08, s. 1.

(4) A driver of a commercial motor vehicle is exempt from subsection 68.1 (1) of the Act if the vehicle is leased for 30 days or less by an individual for the transportation of the goods kept for the individual’s personal use. O. Reg. 396/08, s. 1.

14. (1) The speed-limiting system of a commercial motor vehicle shall be properly set at a maximum speed of 105 kilometres per hour. O. Reg. 396/08, s. 1. (Writer's Note: 105 kph = 65 mph)

(2) A speed-limiting system is properly set for the purposes of subsection (1) if it prevents a driver, by means of accelerator application, from accelerating to or maintaining a speed greater than permitted under subsection (1). O. Reg. 396/08, s. 1.

(3) The maximum speed under subsection (1) shall be set by means of the electronic control module that limits the feed of fuel to the engine. O. Reg. 396/08, s. 1.

(4) A commercial motor vehicle is exempt from subsection (3) if it is equipped with an equally effective system, not dependent on the electronic control module, that allows limitation of vehicle speed, remotely or not, but does not allow the driver to deactivate or modify the system in Ontario so that it does not comply with subsections (1) and (2). O. Reg. 396/08, s. 1.

15. (1) A speed-limiting system shall be in good working order. O. Reg. 396/08, s. 1.

(2) Without limiting the generality of subsection (1), all aspects of a commercial motor vehicle’s computer system or systems, computer programs, components, equipment and connections that are capable of playing a role in preventing a driver from increasing the speed of a commercial motor vehicle beyond a specified value shall be in good working order. O. Reg. 396/08, s. 1.

16. A commercial motor vehicle’s electronic control module shall contain information that accurately corresponds with any component or feature of the vehicle referred to in the module, including information regarding the tire rolling radius, axle gear ratio and transmission gear ratio. O. Reg. 396/08, s. 1.

17. The prescribed speed for the purposes of subsection 68.1 (9) of the Act is 115 kilometres per hour. O. Reg. 396/08, s. 1.

18. The following devices are prescribed for the purposes of clause 68.1 (3) (a) of the Act:

1. A device that causes inaccurate information to be transmitted to the electronic control module about a commercial motor vehicle’s actual speed.

2. A device that causes inaccurate information to be sent to the electronic control module about the revolutions per minute of the engine. O. Reg. 396/08, s. 1.
=========================================
 

pelicn

Veteran Expediter
Thank you Pjjjjj

After reading this, it makes me wonder how it's going to be enforced. If you are speeding then it's obvious that you don't have a limiting device.
So, I wonder if they will be pulling random trucks just to check if there is a limiter on them?
 
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