Can You Quantify EOBR $$$ Benefits?

[ATeam]

I had a conversation today with an owner-operator who claims that you can make more money with an EOBR in your truck than when using paper logs. The assertion is that the EOBR saves you time, money and effort and is therefore more profitable.

I agree that an EOBR saves you time and effort in logging. But I do not agree that it is more profitable. When I think that part through, I just don't see it.

The example of a fuel stop is given. With a paper log, you might typically log a 15 minute stop because the log is laid out in 15 minute increments. But an EOBR will log the actual time spent fueling, which may be 7 minutes, giving you 8 more minutes of drive time.

The example of the false logging that an EOBR will do in traffic was also given. With a paper log, if you are working your way through a two-hour traffic jam, you would log two hours driving. In stop and go traffic, the EOBR will lie about your status and put you on duty not driving while you are stopped in traffic (even though you are behind the wheel working your way through traffic), giving you perhaps an extra hour of drive time.

The example of of stretch breaks was given. On a long drive, you might stop for a few minutes at rest areas to stretch. The issue is the same as with fuel stops. With paper logs, you are unlikely to log the stop as sleeper or off duty if the stop is say six minutes. But with an EOBR, you can.

The example of a scale stop was given, where time is not taken by the scale cop to inspect an EOBR like he or she would spend with a log book.

While all of these examples are true and typical, I have a hard time seeing how they support the case that the EOBR is more profitable because they show how the EOBR puts more money into your pocket.

When we are paid by the mile or by the load but log by the hour, how can it be true that EOBR's put more money in one's pocket?

Kindly resist the urge to list a series of assumptions that make it true. I'm not looking for a way to assume the way to the truth. I'm looking for the truth.

To me, the truth would look something like a series of loads in which X hours of driving and on duty time were saved, making it possible to take one more load that would not have otherwise been possible because HOS services were used up. But in the real world, how often does that actually happen?

We are expediters in the real world. We might arrive at the fuel pump at 2:15, 2:17, 2:20, or whatever. A scale cop might wave you through after seeing your EOBR or may pull you in because he or she sees a low tire on your EOBR truck. We might surprisingly drive out of Los Angeles at highway speed or on another day spend hours getting out. We might stop at a rest area and then, oops!, find the need to unexpectedly stop again an hour or two later. That billboard showing those delicious McDonald's french fries may prove to be too much to resist, so an unplanned stop is made. We may be pre-dispatched on three good loads but the fourth load that was made possible with the extra time we made cancels, leaving us with token dry run pay and lost time and miles (an expense). We might have time to spare on a load and in the interests of safety and not being pre-dispatched stop to take a nap, never knowing if that nap and on-time delivery instead of an early delivery cost us an immediate pick up that day.

With so many variables in play all the time, is it even possible to prove that time saved in EOBR logging translates to more money in your pocket? I can see where people come to believe it. But can they prove it? I think not.

Open to other views on this. Thank you for your replies.

 

[Turtle]

It can be kind of like hitting traffic lights. You can hit one light that causes you to hit several others, or get behind a slow fart a few miles down the road, whereas if you had had a green light way back there you'd have missed the other lights and the old fart. That one red light could cost you 10 or 15 minutes versus missing it in the first place.

On a day-by-day basis, an EOBR is probably not going to put any extra money in your pocket, but if it saves 5 minutes one day and you are in-service and available for a load 5 minutes earlier, and get a load that you would not have gotten if those 5 minutes were wasted, then it becomes profitable, indeed. And it only takes one of those a year for it to be so. So it really doesn't have to happen very often at all. Then there's the actual time it takes to hand write paper logs. By definition it is not an efficient use of time that could be used in more profitable ways, including getting needed rest or being slightly less stressed out by not having to do mundane paperwork.

But my brother has the same runs week after week. He pulls a flatbed trailer and hauls steel, lumber, and barrels, not all at once. With paper logs on Thursdays he shows 3 fuel stops for 45 minutes total. He now uses electronic logs and those same fuel stops log him a total of 20-25 minutes each Thursday (usually, but it varies a little, of course), saving him about 20 minutes of driving time. That 20 minutes, more often than not, allows him the time needed to complete his last run on Thursday, instead of having to complete it after a break, as with paper logs he's usually 15 minutes short. It lets him add one more stopoff to his on Friday on his way home, and adds $500 to his weekly income. That's the clearest example I know of where EOBRs can make a significant difference, albeit not one of expediting. The other days of the week he saves time by not having to paper log, but it doesn't translate into more money.

 

[ATeam]

But my brother has the same runs week after week. He pulls a flatbed trailer and hauls steel, lumber, and barrels, not all at once. With paper logs on Thursdays he shows 3 fuel stops for 45 minutes total. He now uses electronic logs and those same fuel stops log him a total of 20-25 minutes each Thursday (usually, but it varies a little, of course), saving him about 20 minutes of driving time. That 20 minutes, more often than not, allows him the time needed to complete his last run on Thursday, instead of having to complete it after a break, as with paper logs he's usually 15 minutes short. It lets him add one more stopoff to his on Friday on his way home, and adds $500 to his weekly income. That's the clearest example I know of where EOBRs can make a significant difference, albeit not one of expediting. The other days of the week he saves time by not having to paper log, but it doesn't translate into more money.

That's exactly the kind of example I was looking for. Note that with a driver who does regular runs and is working regular shifts on a regular schedule, it may indeed be possible to prove that an EOBR that logs by the minute can put more money in one's pocket. But, I maintain, with expediters, the variables are too great to make any such case. The best you can come up with is if this, then that, and the this and that are hypothetical at best.

 

[Turtle]

Yeah, like I said, his example doesn't really translate well to expediting. It may very well be the case in expediting that e-logs can make you some money, but I believe that if it is, it's a case of the red light thing where it just so happens that you get a load here or there where a few extra minutes here or there make the difference. Certainly nothing to bank on, I wouldn't think.

It's been a long time since I logged a load, but if I were to start regularly hauling HAZMAT again or otherwise start to log, I'd want e-logs. And it would be for the same reason given by most I've talked to who use them, I wouldn't have to mess with paper logs again.

 

[zorry]

I think the best part of EOBR's for expediting companies are less tickets for simple mistakes.
Many teams don't communicate well and may log the swap point as one name and his partner may log it as another name.
Example is Roadway's Chgo Hgts terminal is in Sauk Village,Il.
This could look like falsification to that LEO in Kansas.
I see less loads picked by people that aren't aware of available hours. Less problems when a rookie trains. I've trained two rookies and slept easier knowing the EOBR would alert them to the end of thier driving shift.
For a solo it would open up more loads as it figures out the split sleeper for them.

 

[jjoerger]

They help in preventing logging errors.
If you are ever in an accident the lawyers will tear apart your log books going back as far as the judge will allow. With e logs they are accurate to the minute. To me this makes them worth the money.

 

[tenntrucker]

I went to using a laptop program called eclipse and am really liking it. It all the flexible of paper logs without the errors. Since I went to back in April have had no errors.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[zorry]

T/T being used to that "flexability" may not be good.
Not saying YOU,but some may believe they can use that flexability to falsify.
Anyone who believes they can get away with cheating in 2012 is an idiot.
You may not get caught because nobody has reason to spend the resources to look very hard.
Since prosecuters like to convict people of vehicular manslaughter, there isn't a job or carrier worth cheating for.
Cell phone records,cameras,automated showers will make the case.
Sex with my wife good.
Sex with Bubba, not good.
And EOBR's, although cheatable,make it easier to avoid the temptation.

 

[hossman2011]

Prior to EOBR, many stops included checking and comparing logs, taking hours of time and sweat and dealing with state DOT attitude.

Since EOBR, two stops asked that I prove the unit is functional (easy) and none have asked for the full record to be faxed (as I offer at each stop).

So far, it's saved a crapload of time, in that regard only.

 

[Rocketman]

T/T being used to that "flexability" may not be good.
Not saying YOU,but some may believe they can use that flexability to falsify.
Anyone who believes they can get away with cheating in 2012 is an idiot.
You may not get caught because nobody has reason to spend the resources to look very hard.
Since prosecuters like to convict people of vehicular manslaughter, there isn't a job or carrier worth cheating for.
Cell phone records,cameras,automated showers will make the case.
Sex with my wife good.
Sex with Bubba, not good.
And EOBR's, although cheatable,make it easier to avoid the temptation.

Liability sbould be our biggest concern with anything we do out here. A DOT cop can ruin your day or week or month...maybe even your year if they hit you hard enough. A lawyer can ruin your life.

 

[moose]

To me, the truth would look something like a series of loads in which X hours of driving and on duty time were saved, making it possible to take one more load that would not have otherwise been possible because HOS services were used up. But in the real world, how often does that actually happen?.

I actually hold Exactly that !
my carrier provide a print out of all trucks monthly revenue.
in my carrier operation the trucker are being paid %tage of the load, there for an over time truck revenue can provide a perspective on how well a trucker is doing out there.
in that print out, (which a few of you seen while attending the Expo) there's an indications between O/O /Co. driver or teams.
there's also a mark for trucks using Elogs. which is about 2/3 of the fleet now(270 trucks).
all opted out for Elog in the last year or so.
last month, one of the safety personal used that list, and marked the dates on which every single Elog truck was moved from paper logs to E-log.
those trucks did not lost revenue ,nor lost their place in the Q'.
it is definite that in my carrier line of work (none Expedite), revenue records did not changed significantly.
same truckers that did well before are still doing as well. and vise verse.
do to the above info. i will probably opted out for Elogs soon as well.

 

[zorry]

Liability drives more carrier policies than we could begin to imagine.
Things that make no sense to us makes sense to some lawyer or underwriter.
If you're a good operator,it'll drive your decision making process.

 

[pearlpro]

Truth be told its just another added expense I dont need or want, Ive never been busted for logs and Ive done plenty of paper logs, drive legal and log legal and it costs 7 bucks for paper logs with a name imprinted.....I dont need or want a device telling me when to pee, eat fries or walk....My Brain does that just fine. I have to agree Phil I dont see where hes making any EXTRA REVENUE especially after buying a thousand dollar device and paying a fee to monitor and connect to it....

Eclipse logs work great....Ppaer Logs work great....DOT and ATA new EOBR not so great !!!

 

[zorry]

Truth be told its just another added expense I dont need or want, Ive never been busted for logs and Ive done plenty of paper logs, drive legal and log legal and it costs 7 bucks for paper logs with a name imprinted.....I dont need or want a device telling me when to pee, eat fries or walk....My Brain does that just fine. I have to agree Phil I dont see where hes making any EXTRA REVENUE especially after buying a thousand dollar device and paying a fee to monitor and connect to it....

Eclipse logs work great....Ppaer Logs work great....DOT and ATA new EOBR not so great !!!

In a few years you'll have a decision to make.

 

[ATeam]

...same truckers that did well before are still doing as well.

And that will always be the case. Some people are simply better at the logging game than others. Those who managed their time well with paper logs will continue to do so with EOBR's. There is more to time management than the device you use to keep track of it.

 

[ATeam]

In a few years you'll have a decision to make.

You may be right but I do not assume the universal EOBR outcome. EOBR advocates, if they had their way, would have had them in all trucks years ago. That did not happen because people are pushing back and some actions taken to mandate EOBR's have been overturned by the courts. The EOBR mandate battle has not been won or lost by anyone yet. What is in the highway bill now about EOBR's can be repealed. It ain't over until it's over, and it's far from over.

 

[moose]

Try to explain this to the greedy Maryland Hwy Patrol this week as they give hundreds of tickets to innocent truckers along I-83 for simply running out of allowed drive time regardless of ahead planing or not.
once an EOBR is mandated, compliance will have very little to do with time planing.
no one, but no one, from the Gov., nor the supply chain, ever answer the question what those a driver to do when out of his control he have no place to park & is out of hours.

 

[davekc]

To the original question, time saver yes, income producer, not seeing it.

 

[beachbum]

Maybe you can explain how logging electronically is any different then logging with paper logs. I see no difference except that E logs do it by the minute. How would it tell you when to go to the bathroom or when to eat, it wouldn't. Therefore, please come up with a better example.

Truth be told its just another added expense I dont need or want, Ive never been busted for logs and Ive done plenty of paper logs, drive legal and log legal and it costs 7 bucks for paper logs with a name imprinted.....I dont need or want a device telling me when to pee, eat fries or walk....My Brain does that just fine. I have to agree Phil I dont see where hes making any EXTRA REVENUE especially after buying a thousand dollar device and paying a fee to monitor and connect to it....

Eclipse logs work great....Ppaer Logs work great....DOT and ATA new EOBR not so great !!!

 

[beachbum]

Moose, the Maryland Highway patrol was doing their job when they found the violations, I do believe the drivers were at fault for going over hours and not stopping sooner. Depending on where they were they could have stopped at the scale houses on 95 if they had the time to get there, Maryland like some other states allow drivers to park in the lots without being bothered.

That being said, it is the responsibility of a driver to stop before he runs out of hours, even if he has to stop at 10 hours instead of 11 or 13 instead of 14.

Try to explain this to the greedy Maryland Hwy Patrol this week as they give hundreds of tickets to innocent truckers along I-83 for simply running out of allowed drive time regardless of ahead planing or not.
once an EOBR is mandated, compliance will have very little to do with time planing.
no one, but no one, from the Gov., nor the supply chain, ever answer the question what those a driver to do when out of his control he have no place to park & is out of hours.