"Buying" into a Van?

[late4dinner]

Thanks Gregg. And by the way, I am the one who got the first ticket for passing the scale in Michigan 2 1/2 years ago. The reason I didn't tell the rest of the story at that time is that if you remember most of the drivers here said that the law didn't say what it said, remember? Well the reason they chased me down is because I have one of the 10,000 gvw 6 wheel vans. That would have given some of the drivers a reason to believe what their safety department was telling them "You do not have to scale with a van".

Also, the MSP Officer made a error when he issued the ticket. The violation # he put on the ticket was the old violation # for bypassing an open scale. The # at the time of the ticket, was for an overweight ticket. Did I say that right? Well anyway the fine for bypassing an open scale was $250.00 and the fine for being overweight was $100.00.

I went to court in Monroe with the hopes that the Judge would throw the ticket out because it was flawed, or at the least would find me guilty of what the ticket violation # was for, being overweight, WRONG. In Monroe the officer is allowed to correct his mistake, but not us, ha.

I was told a couple months that Michigan has adjusted their fines way up for violations like that.

The only good thing about the conviction is that it is not a driving violation and don't go on your license, but the bad thing is , now I have a criminal conviction in Mi.

 

[Crazynuff]

They had their problems, like anything new and for all manufactors, the first couple of years but the problems were corrected. The only problem I had was my EGR valve and it was replaced under warrantiy. You can go here to read more: Thinking of buying an '06 6.0 can anyone tell me likes and dislikes - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums.

Ford did NOT correct the problem . I've seen several auto transporters loaded with Ford vans marked "Factory Repurchase" which means Ford was forced to buy them back under lemon laws . I know a hotshotter that has hauled many late model Ford vans and pickups to the shredder . The 6.0 problem came from Ford reprogramming the International software to match the horsepower of Cummins and Duramax . The engine wasn't designed for that . The weak point was the head studs . There are aftermarket replacements that would cure the problem but Ford parts won't cure it .
As for hauling almost 2 tons , better have a log book and medical card handy if you get stopped .The empty weight given was likely for a gas model . A diesel would be over 6200 lbs. curb weight before adding driver , cargo securement equipment , etc.

 

[late4dinner]

Ford did NOT correct the problem . I've seen several auto transporters loaded with Ford vans marked "Factory Repurchase" which means Ford was forced to buy them back under lemon laws . I know a hotshotter that has hauled many late model Ford vans and pickups to the shredder . The 6.0 problem came from Ford reprogramming the International software to match the horsepower of Cummins and Duramax . The engine wasn't designed for that . The weak point was the head studs . There are aftermarket replacements that would cure the problem but Ford parts won't cure it .
As for hauling almost 2 tons , better have a log book and medical card handy if you get stopped .The empty weight given was likely for a gas model . A diesel would be over 6200 lbs. curb weight before adding driver , cargo securement equipment , etc.

I have not seen any vans marked "Factory Repurchase", but it makes me wonder why they would take them to the shredder. I would think there would be many parts that could be salvaged. I realise that Ford is not in the salvage business but just the crash parts alone would be worth a fortune.

 

[highway star]

I was not over weigth and I think I have proven that.

I went back through the thread and I don't see where you "proved" anything. You need to remember that the term "payload" applies to anything you put in the truck. I expedited in an E350 for over 8 years and I'm absolutely certain you'd be overweight with that much freight.

Also, I wouldn't touch a 6.0 or the 6.4 with a ten foot pole.

 

[greg334]

I think I have proven already in my previous post that you can haul 3900 lbs safely and legally. Van operaters do not need to run log books.

I don't want to beat this into the ground but where did you prove it?

I don't doubt that you can put 3900 lbs but that means nothing, I can do the same with a '66 VW bus but the ratings are a part of the equation, the other part is the actual weight that really matters so what does your weight ticket says when you are loaded with you, full fuel tank and your stuff? I have the feeling you and that all stuff gets your van up to 6000 or 6200.

I also want to point out that the chances that these vans were part of the lease agreement between the leasing company and Ford. They have some agreements to buy back X amount of vehicles as an incentive. Most of these are commercial vehicle leases, not personal vehicles. When we leased Escorts, the leasing company would buy 2000 of them a month, we would end up with 10 to 20 a month but at the end of the lease for these vehicles, we would turnover 25 of them and they got picked up by a transport company with a paper stuck in the window - FORD Wixom or FORD Dearborn.

 

[greg334]

Greg
OK, let's not beat this into the ground. But lets say that I am in court, for what ever reason, and I show proof that my van is rated to haul 3960 lbs and and my cargo is 3900 lbs. How I am I negligent?

Well first, I don't want to beat you up about it, my point is that a lot of people can't figure things out and assume that because it can haul 5000lbs (or what ever) that they can haul 5000, see what I mean?

OK let's use my van for example, '99 GMC 6.5 turbo diesel (yes I am a diesel guy too). It had a GVW of 9860 lbs if I remember correctly. The payload (combined axles) is supposed to be 4760lb but no way... read on.

GM's curb weight for the van is rated at 5100lbs for some reason as a cargo van. This is from my little dealer book for the GMC line and a number of sources, with the options that were on the Van, engine and well nothing else.

My empty ticket with no one in it, but a full tank and stripped as I picked it up at the dealer was 5700lbs.

A 600 lb difference?

I put in the securement equipment, it came up to 6600lbs. This included the e-track, the plywood, the sleeper (just the sleeper bunk, no bedding), bulkhead and all that but it didn't include my personal gear or my 275lb fat a**.

That is a loss of 900lbs in cargo capacity.

With my personal gear, CB, my laptop, my food and my 275lb fat a**, it topped out right at 7000 lbs, leaving me with a 200lbs or so for safety and a 2500 lbs of payload.

Each step of the way I took it to my nearest cat scale and weighed it.

See what I am getting at?

 

[highway star]

Since we're in the Newbies forum, a little bit of beating into the ground wouldn't hurt on this. The Noobs should understand this.

My numbers for my E350 were very close to the same as your van, Greg. Somewhere on my list of "here's your sign" conversations I've had with people is the one I had with a cargo van guy that actually thought sleeper, gear and whatever else didn't matter because it wasn't "payload".

You need to set your van up to haul the freight, put all the stuff you're going to take with you on the road, fill it with fuel and weigh it with you in it. GVWR-that scale ticket= available payload capacity. It's a simple concept that some don't seem to get.

 

[Crazynuff]

Crazynuff
I have several questions:
1) When you noticed the auto transporters loaded with Ford vans, did you happen to notice the model year? Mine is a 2007 built at Avon Lake. Ford had problems with the 2003-2004 Econoline Vans . Again, mine is a 2007. Did you notice their VIN numbers? There was no body change until 2008!
2) Were the vehicles on the transporters using "tuners"?
3) Did the owners of the vehicles on the transporters allowing the injectors to preheat before starting? The computer needs to see at least 500 PSI before it will activate the injectors!
4) Did the owners of the vehicles on the transporters using biodiesel with more than 5% concentration (B5)? Great idea Willy Nelson!
5) Did the owners of the vehicles on the transporters overfill their coolant levels?
6) The EPA has issued a temporary waiver for the use of high-sulfur off road diesel fuel in vehicles being driven on the road in some areas of the US. This is in response to shortages resulting from hurricanes Katrina and Rita. Using high sulfur fuels (over 500 ppm sulfur) can cause engine damage. Did the owners of the vehicles on the transporters shorten oil change intervals by 50 percent (mileage or operating hours) to help prevent damage.
My point is this Crazynuff, sure the 6.0 had problems, but now they are fine. Ford, like Dodge and GM, all have problems. But mine, except for a EGR valve which was replaced under warranty, has operated flawlessly.
I think I have proven already in my previous post that you can haul 3900 lbs safely and legally. Van operaters do not need to run log books.

In answer to all the above : As stated , they were "Ford Repurchase " vehicles . That only applies to lemon law vehicles . Ford would not repurchase vehicles if engines failed due to tuners or type of fuel . Owners still had problems with 2007 6.0 diesels . Read posts by Albert of Mobile 06/29/08 and William of Randolph , MA 07/31/07 . Consumer complaints about Ford F-250/F-350 Pickup . M&H logistics , a hotshot company posted notice on their website they would no longer contract trucks powered by 6.0 diesels due to numerous delivery problems caused by breakdowns .
As for van operators not needing logbooks , they do if they exceed 10,000 lbs. Next time you have 3900 lbs. on your van weigh it at a Cat scale . I'll pay the scale ticket .

 

[arkjarhead]

That is correct crazy. Another hot shot outfit I know of said they wouldn't be leasing on anymore 1 ton pickups period. The majority of their ICs were transferring over to the Class 7s on their own because they enjoy the walk in sleeper and increase in available freight due to they can carry more weight.

Back to the van topic. I can tell you what a DOT officer is going to do if he finds a van overweight. He's going to increase his Christmas Bonus for this year by writing you a ticket. Think about you can put a smile on a DOT officer's child's face this Christmas morning. I know made them DOT kid's happy Christmas of 2006 when their daddy caught me 3,000 pounds over on my trailer axle. Oh well. It was icy and my trailer kept wanting to get in the hammer lane and come up and say hi to the tractor. I called my dad and asked him what to do. His response was put more weight on the trailer axles by sliding them. I did and I got a ticket. Dad volunteered to pay half. Said he'd rather pay half than have his boy hurt a couple weeks before Christmas.