buyer beware!

jay shipley

Seasoned Expediter
I bought a used truck from someone who told me flat out, straight up, that his oil analysis were good. Well, after less than 5000 miles, I am sitting in Rock Springs, WY.....truck has been in the Cummins dealer since last Thursday night, and I get to pay a $21,000.00 bill when it's finished.

I found the paperwork in the truck, after I bought it, but never looked at it till I had all this "free" time and discovered that, on May 19th....he had an oil analysis done.....found abnormal silicon and tin in the oil at that time. Copper was at 54 then. Wearmetals were abnormal in May. In June, an oil change was done, but no analysis....mileage was only 5321 on the other change....had it done anyway. Then, in July, after only 7151 miles.....another oil change was done. In August the couple then went home and waited for someone to buy their manitou. Said they were waiting till truck deals were finished as they were buying a class 8 and going semi. But then calling me and telling me they had to go back to work because they coudln't afford to stay home. Guess my question would've been.......why don't you take a few runs till your truck deal is finished????

Initially, my bank turned me down. I let them know we couldn't get the money, but he continued to call and call.....after leading me to believe he had "other people interested".....still have those letters in my email, in fact. Wife and I expired all our resources, and told them we couldn't get the money. BUT....all of a sudden, he calls us and tells us HE found a way to get the truck....through the dealer in Nashville, TN he was dealing with to get his new truck......how convenient.

Then, while I was still on the road, in my other truck.....he was doing the push and shove again to make me come home, and drive to Nashville to take his monkey off his back. Finally we did make it down there.....and now we have to face a financial ordeal that nobody is prepared to do, less than 30 days on the road.

Looking back, I know he was aware of the high wearmetals in his oil.....doing oil changes more frequently than necessary....hides some of it....not all. But, no more analysis done by him after the one in May. Just the "unload the truck" process. A good owner would remember such a thing, when something like that is detected......wouldn't you think?

Can't seem to get into Expediters World, not even to register there.....but he has a piece posted about how he's some sort of victim......but, with $21,000.00 out of MY pocket, PLUS the hotel, downtime, etc.......who was the victim here?

Poor pitiful baldhead.....he got the new truck, and I got the shaft!
 

Broompilot

Veteran Expediter
I sold my last truck here on E/O everythinig I told the new owner was and is correct.

I offered for his mechanic to look over the truck, I provided all reciepts of repairs, all maintenance records everything.

If an owner is not willing to show everything or is missing paperwork such as 45K miles between oil changes. Than Walk.

I am sorry for your loss, let this Post be at the Gain of other people looking at buying used equipment.

May I add, I would never ever buy a used truck unless a Junker at a Bargin Basement Price WITHOUT A WARRANTY, UNLESS THE ABOVE DOCUMENTS WERE OFFERED. My purchaser did not have to ask, I had everythiing in a Notebook for his review and future records.


PS I have heard from my purchaser once, AND HE LOVES THE TRUCK. I was honest and up front hid nothing and the condition of the truck proved my HONESTY as well.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Yes, Jay, you are the victim, but you are just as much at fault, if the oil analysis was available before you bought the truck, but you didn't look at it until afterwards.
Buyer beware is absolutely correct, and it's an expensive lesson to learn, I'm sure. Hopefully your experience will remind others of the need to KNOW what they're buying, before handing over the $ - thanks for sharing it.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I don't see a lot of recourse. If the box on the title is checked "As is" then I think you are screwed.
Your only other option is to consult a attorney if you think it is a case of fraud with regards to him knowing that it failed a oil analysis. But, you have to prove that.
If he gave you the paperwork with that oil analysis, I think you are stuck. That becomes a case of "buyer beware".
Can't say it enough to be thorough if buying used equipment.
Certainly a early bad break that newbies need to be aware of.
Businessman first, driver second.












Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

nightcreacher

Veteran Expediter
back in 1984 i bought a 5 year old truck from a prominant dealership.and th e reason i purchased this truck was it was suppose to had an out of frame rebuild by catapiller.this was the main sales point.well 1st load was great,but on the reyurn trip,boom,motor blew up.I had it towedto pocono peterbilt as this was the closest cat garage.2days later I was informed that this motor had at least 500000 miles and never rebuilt.i contacted the dealership,let them know what I had found out,and only asked for them to pay for the parts,answer I got was you bought a used truck,so a lawyer was contacted,and a proceedings were on the way.sewed for misrepresenting the truck,and lawyer didnt even get the case into court,think he was bought off,
so I agree,buyer be ware
 

TeamCaffee

Administrator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
Jay

I hope that you can recover from this huge loss and make this truck become profitable. Stay positive and focused and claw your way out of this hole as you have the truck leased to a good company.
 

Lawrence

Founder
Staff member
Jay,

Very sorry to hear the sad news. We hope you can get beyond it.

I would like to make this observation for the sake of others. Hopefully, this can be a situation that others can learn by. I noticed that this is your first post– and I can only assume that you are a new reader of our forums. With some research through our articles, interviews, forums and archives – this issue has been addressed several times over the years. The main purpose for this forum is to increase your chances of success in this business. Let’s face it – this is can be a tuff business and as you are finding there are many obstacles that can make your success difficult or impossible.

This is why we encourage new and veterans alike to get involved with exchanging information. I’m still amazed when I meet an expedite owner operator who is not connected to a forum like this or industry magazine. Can you imagine an attorney or tradesman not keeping up with their industry or trade journals? Or for that matter – their industry trade show?

If I can "be real" for a moment - we see first time posts like this often where someone comes to warn everybody about a bad fleet owner, bad truck dealer, bad truck stop or a bad carrier. We typically never hear from that poster again. They never really contribute anything about their success or how they overcame their problem again. They just want to warn the rest of who have read are participated in over 100,000+ posts about this business on this site about their situation.

I’m convinced that as this industry gets more competitive – only those who have a full spectrum of information will be successful. So my message is simple – get registered, get informed and get involved.

Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com

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99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name.


I hate the country, all those animals walking around un-cooked.




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LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I do wish you well with this. I'm not sure if you have any recourse. You may want to consult an attorney to see if you have any options. If nothing else, small claims court might at least recoup part of your losses. As others have said, hopefully you will stick with us and keep us informed on how this progresses. Good luck to you with your new found opportunity. Please take that is it's meant, an interpretation of a terrible situation as something that can be overcome rather than an insurmountable negative. Take care.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

Streakn1

Veteran Expediter
I'm curious as to what the model year the truck is and how many miles were on the engine when the oil analysis was done.

When we sold our other truck I made sure the buyer saw all maintenance records and oil analysis results before they took delivery of the vehicle. Its quite upsetting to me when something like this happens to someone as it can be their demise financially in this business. We have been through a total engine replacement ourselves, but under much different circumstances. Hard lesson learned but we hope you will be able to move forward from this and profit.
 

ConfusedMuse

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Really tough break, sorry to hear about it.

We got told from several Cat dealers that oil analysis are only good if they are consistently done from day one and every set so many miles. That way your able to keep track of what's going on in your engine, and can catch any problems before they become worse.
 

mrgoodtude

Not a Member
Jay and Cindy,
Haven't seen you since Conway but happy to hear you are expanding.
Are you going to be able to rise above this?
I would love to hear from you guys again!
Mike
 

mcbride

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Hi Jay and Cindy,

We are so sorry to read about what happened. We got a new cell number and I will pm you with it.

-mcbride-
--What goes around comes around--
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Buyer beware?

Of the seller or of buying a truck in general?

I have been buying and selling vehicles for a long time and know when I make a purchase it is up to me and only me to do due diligence. I have been screwed a couple times in the distance past but they were my fault and no one else’s because I was in a hurry to buy something, like the junk ’34 Packard twelve that never made it home and ended up in flames somewhere in Iowa.

I really don’t want to sound like an a** but if you are looking for sympathy, alright I feel sorry for you but other than that I hope others will take in the lessons that you have gone through. Even though you are a fleet owner, I think that reinforcing the idea that one has to check out the truck the proper way is probably the most important thing to do as a possible owner.

Before I go on, I want to make sure that you understand that you should pay for inspections, not the seller.

If the seller does not want to deal with an inspection, walk away, if the seller refuses to even compromise on inspections walk away.

There are far too many trucks out there looking for owners than there are owners looking for trucks.

So what is the proper way?

First find a licensed experienced mechanic you can trust to look at the thing even if you are mechanically inclined. It is important to get someone else involved that has no stake in you buying the truck, it gets beyond the selling BS and your need (want) to buy something.

The second thing is go through and have the chassis checked, I recommend VisCheck above others because it will have a report that you get to keep.

The third thing is having the engine Dyno-ed and the ECM dumped and printed. You can have the mechanic explain to you what is in the dump.

The fourth thing is the oil analysis, which will show you abnormal readings – you do not have to have a serious of reading and a base line to see copper or zinc highs in the report that tell you problems. I would also say this, I don’t change oil on my vehicles when I sell them simply because I want the buyer to do the check themselves. I can always substitute oil in that sample bottle from another vehicle to get it to pass, so I would rather lose a sale because I am honest than to screw over someone.

The fifth thing is financing, I do not believe in owner financing unless there is some recourse I have like an exit clause and have my lawyer approve of the arrangement. I would not want to finance anything unless it fits into my terms and as you describe it, the owner was pushy and I would have walked away.

In your case, I doubt that you will get a dime, simply because you had the paper work and most likely could have found the problems before there were major problem or even finalized the purchase. The oil changes should have indicated some problems but I also think that even if the seller is trying to dump the truck, you could have had the dealer financing the truck look at it.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
I think he may have a case for fraud. Fraud by ommission is still fraud. What Jay was told was different than what the analysis showed. The guy was selling a time bomb, and he knew it.

-True independence can only be gained if you're trully independant.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
T-Hawk

"I found the paperwork in the truck, after I bought it, but never looked at it till I had all this "free" time and discovered that, on May 19th....he had an oil analysis done.....found abnormal silicon and tin in the oil at that time. Copper was at 54 then. Wearmetals were abnormal in May. In June, an oil change was done, but no analysis....mileage was only 5321 on the other change....had it done anyway. Then, in July, after only 7151 miles.....another oil change was done. "

What this means to me is clearly that the report was in the truck at the time of purchase, he knew about the oil changes and the new owner failed to stop the sale when he should have looked at everything in the truck that was left there when he picked it up. It would be very difficult to prove that he didn't know about it when in fact he posted that he did have it in the truck he now owned and he would have less of a recourse to recover anything even though the seller may have not disclosed or falsified the statement.

As much as I would like to agree with the premise that it is the fault of the seller, I can't. I can sympathize but that's about it.
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
I looked on that other site and the seller has posted about the situation you described. IMO he sounds scared that you may take legal action gainst him.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I couldn't find the thread.

Beside that site is rather blah and they need to do a couple things to tighten up security.
 

RETIDEPXE

Veteran Expediter
I would like to add, if you are told something of major importance such as "good" oil analysis, get proof in writing, paperwork, repair orders, writen on a napkin at the restaraunt signed by the seller/person making the statement, something, otherwise, you have not a leg to stand on, but this is not to say you cannot try. AS much as i hate to say it, a "hand shake" doesn't mean much anymore and the "He said - she said" will not hold up in any court of law when it is "buyer beware" as is almost always the case in buying used "titled" merchandise. I'd also recommend getting at minimum a powertrain warranty from a reputable source (not necessarily one the dealer offers either, they may only be profit motivated in picking the company, i.e. a Ford dealer offering a non Ford extended warranty), cost a little extra but might well save your business down the road.
I hate to hear of your misfortune but i believe the next go round you will do some things differently :)

Best of luck,
h/w team drivers
straight truck
Panther E




"Mama told me when I was young
Take your time... Don't live too fast,
Troubles will come and they will pass.
And don't forget son,
There is someone up above."
Simple Man
Lynard Skynard
 
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