Building a C-Unit

bigjoep89

Expert Expediter
Concrete truck driver 15 years
Concrete sales mgr, 13 years.
Expediter 2 years.
[font color="purple" size=+3]Fed[font color=blue]Ex [/font][/font][font color=gray]Custom Critical [/font]

If you were building a C unit.
Please try to keep this a true C-Unit

A What make and model of truck
B What transmission Auto 5 or 6 speed or manual
C Motor type and HP
D Sleeper brand and size
E Box and size
F Gear ratio
Keep in mind the truck needs to make money!!!

Thanks in advance for your input.
God bless our Military and Vets.
 

mrgoodtude

Not a Member
Don't know if this helps but we have been very pleased with our "C" unit...
Volvo 780 series tractor stretched to a 370" wheelbase
500 ISX cummins
12 speed automated manual (no clutch)
3.42 rears 1550 rpm at 70mph and walks the dog on 7% upgrade, just checked total mpg at 200,000 miles and with idle etc 8.9 overall.
22' reefer box to accomodate our gear (packing etc mountain bikes grill) and still have plenty of room for 16' of freight.
Sleeper is standard condo pkg for the 780 but comes with the fridge and all the goodies, we have learned to "compact" but have managed to put in a home theater with flat screen and make room for the essentials.
Have to admit we miss the 96" sleeper and cabinets (I won't lie) so if we were to do a custom build would probably do the midroof with the same drivetrain to the tune of a 96 Bentz with a onan generator and a roof mount A/C.
From a cost standpoint above would probably be a reach but I am a staunch believer in the class 8 platform, longevity, resale, ride and if your a fleet owner desirability make it a worthwhile investment.
Judging by your questions I imagine you were looking toward a class 7 platform, I just wanted illustrate another potential option.
Mike
 

bigjoep89

Expert Expediter
Concrete truck driver 15 years
Concrete sales mgr, 13 years.
Expediter 2 years.
[font color="purple" size=+3]Fed[font color=blue]Ex [/font][/font][font color=gray]Custom Critical [/font]

mrgoodtude Thanks for the repile this is the kind of info I need thanks. Joe
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Mike I'm curious about access to your bikes and grill. Do you have a curbside door? If you sit over a weekend with a sealed load do you just forget about the bikes and grill. Would it be practical with a non-reefer unit to install a wall inside the the box with a curbside door and use this area for storage? How about a 16' box for freight and a 6' drom box installed between the cab and freight box. Just some thoughts.
 

mrgoodtude

Not a Member
Yepper,
I would like a setup like that but would probably be cost prohibitive and since we run a T-val I would be concerned about insulative (is that a word?) integrity.
As for the grill and accessories (less the bikes) we bought the heavy plastic truck storage bins and set them up on load bars for storage.
If we are under a sealed load we just don't think about access cause were hauling butt anyway, we reserve our goodies for when we are stuck w/out a load on weekends and get the rare opprtunity to hit a campground or if I have to send Cynthia on a beer run.
Mike
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
For some reason Ateam you feeled compelled to display this link on a continous basis short of your one month self imposed departure. Several times today alone. You should also include a link on what NOT to do as that would be if not more beneficial.
It is certainly a place you would have a relative and current story.
It would help a new potential truck builder avoid many of the mistakes you made. The author already stated some of the things he is looking for in another thread you responded to, that have very little to do with your truck specs.






Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

Mudflap

Expert Expediter
Can I ask a good question? That being what sort of money you are looking to spend for your C unit Bigjoep? If defining a true C unit on C unit cargo capacity, a new unit can be built on anything from a small class 4,5,6 or 7 chassis up to a full blown class 8, prices ranging from maybe $30k up to a limit of outer space. Given a price range, others here can better help you put together something that will be a good bang for your buck.

ATeam your unit is very nice, yet I think it is unrealistic to presume that anyone can build a truck on a price is no or little consideration basis is just outright obnoxious, and linking to your truck continuously is nothing short of gloating that aspect of it. Mudflap
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
When building the truck, I kept vendor info and truck specs to myself; making the case that since changes were being made through the build, it would be premature to release the not-yet-finalized information. At that time I took a lot of heat from people who said I should release information.
Now that I have taken the time and trouble to assemble and release detailed truck information in a format that is actually useful for anyone building a truck in any price range, I am taking heat for doing that.

Go figure!

Some day, if I find myself with too much time on my hands, I may go back through the forum and list every personal shortcoming I have been accused of having. Satan himself would not have a longer list. This time it is gloating. Not long ago it was low self esteem, a time before that it was incompetence. A time before that it was lying. Yet another time it was a too-large ego. Tomorrow it will be something else.

Kinder readers will note that such criticisms have NOTHING to do with the expediting business. They will also note that I have never once negatively criticized another forum member's honor, motives, personality, productivity, career approach, career results, or anything else in a way that would degrade the person.

To the very best of my ability, I have always tried to focus my comments not on the person but on the points the person is making.

Regarding DaveKC's point about telling what not to do, it is simple. Do not fall into the trap of trusting experienced drivers and vendors for no other reason than their experience alone. Drivers with experience may only have been doing it wrong for a long time. Vendors with experience and even with the very best intentions and reputations may get distracted or over-committed, with negative results to your project.

We had a failed project before the successful project that got us into our current truck. The lesson learned from the failed project is to be more hands-on with your project and to not trust vendors to be as careful and thorough as they say they will be.

Ronald Regan said, "Trust but verify." That may be wise in international diplomacy. In custom-truck building I'd say don't trust and always verify. The first time around, we trusted our vendors and paid a very high price for doing so.

While the vendors absolutely failed us at many levels in our first project, some of the blame falls on me. My part in the failure came from trying to minimize the time poured into the custom truck build and keep running instead. I incorrectly assumed that I could successfully delegate tasks and project responsibilities to a group of vendors and have them properly completed. That was a costly mistake.

For example, the trailer shop sales rep told us and all other vendors involved in the project that the reefer body would be ready to go by a certain date. Everyone organized their work around that date. Silly me and silly them, we all believed the man. When the date came, the man shocked all vendors at a meeting when he said the reefer body had not even been ordered yet. When pressed about why, he offered double talk and tried to weasel word his way out of it. The simple fact was that this vendor who was always eager to speak at length about his experience, forgot to order the reefer body.

Imagine the joy of the other vendors when they learned that and immediately calculated in their minds how much their carrying costs just went up.

Then when the vendor in question did order the reefer body and other vendors prevailed upon the manufacturer to rush the order through, the vendor in question ordered the wrong-size box. When it arrived, it was eleven inches too long to legally fit on the truck.

That happened after not one, not two, but three e-mails were exchanged between me and this vendor, with copies to the entire group, making it absolutely clear that the completed truck must not be over 40 feet long. Three times, in writing, the vendor in question assured us that the reefer body length he spec'ed would suffice. One of those times, he specifically acknowledged my concerns about the body length he spec'ed and my offer to accept a shorter reefer body in the interests of meeting our truck length goal.

He assured us again and again that the reefer body would be fine as spec'ed.

My mistake was to accept his assurances. His mistakes were numerous and later compounded as he tried to weasel-word his way out of the fix he put himself in with us and the vendor group.

I could write a book about such errors that rose multiple times in the first project and led to its failure. But the details really don't matter because the moral of the story is exactly the same in every case.

Take a hands-on, eyes-on approach to building your custom truck and NEVER trust the voice of experience. The fact that someone has been doing something for a long time does not mean they have been doing it well. And even if someone has been doing it well for a long time, he or she is still human and still subject to being distracted, preoccupied with other projects, and still capable of making mistakes.

Finally, let me correct misinformation that was widely circulated by certain people during our first truck build. It is not true that Diane and I spec'ed that first truck. We went to vendors, told them what we wanted in a truck and left it to them to work together and determine the specs.

That is just another way of saying what I said above. We made a mistake by delegating too much to vendors and not being more hands-on and eyes-on ourselves. The project did not fail because we provide bad specs. The project failed because our vendors failed us.

There you have it, DaveKC. Information on what not to do when building a custom truck.

To leave no doubt about it and to restate a point that DaveKC has made again and again and again........we, Phil and Diane Madsen, once set out to build a custom truck and the project failed.

Does that make us losers? Some love saying so in one form or another. All I know is we are not quitters. Immediately after it was clear that the first truck would be rejected, we started on the second one; learning from our mistakes and succeeding the second time around.

Jeff Jensen recently published a piece entitled, "The Next Truck I Buy Will Have..." See: http://www.expeditersonline.com/artman/publish/truckbuying.html

It is very interesting reading what others had to say about what they would do different next time around. With 100,000 miles now on our truck I can say without hesitation that the next truck we build will be virtually identical to the truck we drive now. It rides like a dream, gets good fuel economy, all components (generator, roof unit, lift gate, reefer, etc) do the jobs they are designed to do. The floor plan is perfect for us.

While it is more expensive than most, this fully-equipped CR unit combined with our work ethic, business skills and lifestyle of choice is well within our means. At the rate we are going, the truck will be fully paid off before we replace its second set of steer tires.
 

bruchar

Expert Expediter
Phil,
Why don't you just put a link to each of your previous arguments. Seems like it's always the same thing over, and over and over again. Nothing personal, and I will only speak for myself, I find your bloviating a bit over the top and tired. While you were gone I looked forward to reading various posts from many different people instead of the same old diatribe dissertations from you. This site was not built by you for you. It takes the opinions and ideas of everyone. You are always cautioning others about the "long timers" of this industry. Why? Maybe it's because we see people like you come and go in this industry and yet the industry survives. No one person holds all the answers in this industry, regardless of how long one choses this to be their vocation.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Folks, let's get back on track for the topic. If you don't care for all that you find then skip over it and read the next post. If you just can't resist complaining about what's posted then do it privately please. It offers nothing to those reading the thread because of interest in the topic to see personal insults and bickering in the thread.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Bruchar, I do believe you have it right. I will say, that Phil's current post does have alot more value to someone new, rather than constant links to the same old thing that most are tired of.
Not that many new people are looking for a truck in that price range.
When building a specialty truck, you do have to be very hands on. Unless of course you are duplicating something many times over. I don't believe experience is the issue Phil, as your second truck was done by a experienced truck builder. Experience matters to you, or you wouldn't have went to ARI. They build an excellent sleeper.
The truck you have now is what many experienced drivers told you to build in the first place.
Being inexperienced and stubborn at the time was costly, but your second round has produced a nice ride. Now don't let that go to your head.








Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

mrgoodtude

Not a Member
The tribe has spoken....
You "ARE" the weakest link.
The irony is you are a wealth of good information but yet you insist on shoving your new found views up everyone's :censoredsign: to validate your station in life. There are a lot of people that would embrace, back and support you if you could find the definition of humility
I am still here for you if you decide you want the help and or support.


Mike:)
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
On that note here is something I would like to share with everyone.

The Dangerous Cliff

T'was a dangerous cliff as they freely confessed though to walk near its edge was so pleasant. But over its edge had slipped a Duke, and it had fooled many a peasant. The people said something would have to be done but their project did not at all tally. Some said, "put a fence the edge of the cliff," others, "an ambulance down in the valley." The lament of the crowd was profound and loud as their hearts overflowed with pity. But the ambulance carried the cry of the day as it spread to the neighboring cities. So a collection was make to accumulate aid and dwellers in highway and alley, gave dollars and cents not to furnish a fence, but an ambulance down in the valley.

For the cliff is alright if you're careful they said, and if folks ever slip and are falling: it's not the slipping and falling that hurts them so much as the shock down below when they're stopping. And so for years as these mishaps occurred quick forth would the rescuers sally, to pick up the victims who fell from the cliff with the ambulance down in the valley. Said one in his plea, it's a marvel to me that you'd give so much great attention to repairing results that to curing the cause, why you'd much better aim at prevention. For the mischief of course should be stopped at its source: come friend and neighbors let us rally. It makes far better sence to rely on a fence than an ambulance down in the valley. He's wrong in his head the majority said. He would end all of our earnest endeavors.

He's the kind of man that would shirk his responsible work, but we will support it forever. Aren't we picking up all just as fast as they fall, and giving them care liberally. Why a superfluous fence is of no consequence, if the ambulance works in the valley. Now the story seem queer as I've given it here, but things oft occur which are stranger. More humane we assert to the hurt, than the plan removing the danger. The best possible course would be safeguard the source, and to attend to things rationally. Yes, build uo the fence and let us dispense with the ambulance down in the valley.


Think about it.
Drive safe
Dave Mayfield
FedEx Custom Critical
13 years as an O/O in Expediting. :) :)
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
You know Phil you did comment on several occasions that you had a high level design team in place for your first attempt. Based on what you said you learned the hard way to be directly involved rather then rely on so called experts.

One point I think that you should make is that you made a personal choice to sell off and liquidate your home and possessions. Well not everyone can do that or are willing to do that. In attempting to emulate you new folks could easily fall into a money trap that they cannot get out of. I am not a fan of Dave Ramsey as all he does is try to put people on a budget but every so often some owner operator calls in with a tale of woe in that they listened to other individuals pushing the rose colored glasses stories and went out and over extended themselves to obtain a truck. I simply cannot understand why someone would liquidate real estae or borrow against to buy a depreciating asset.

So the point I am trying to make is perhaps you might want to clarify how you arrived at your decision and what you gave up to make that decision.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
What is it going to take to get you people back to the topic and off the insults?????

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
>One point I think that you should make is that you made a
>personal choice to sell off and liquidate your home and
>possessions. Well not everyone can do that or are willing to
>do that. In attempting to emulate you new folks could easily
>fall into a money trap that they cannot get out of. I am not
>a fan of Dave Ramsey as all he does is try to put people on
>a budget but every so often some owner operator calls in
>with a tale of woe in that they listened to other
>individuals pushing the rose colored glasses stories and
>went out and over extended themselves to obtain a truck. I
>simply cannot understand why someone would liquidate real
>estae or borrow against to buy a depreciating asset.
>
>So the point I am trying to make is perhaps you might want
>to clarify how you arrived at your decision and what you
>gave up to make that decision.

First, I have never said and I will never say that new folks should emulate me. While Diane and I have a success story to tell and certain business practices we follow, I share them not because I want people to emulate us. I share them so people can know what the practices are and apply them, or not, as makes sense to them.

Regarding our decision to sell our house and goods (except keepsakes), we did so because staying out as much as we did, we saw no good reason to retain them. Our stuff at home was a maintenance reason to go home when we prefered to stay out. We did not miss the stuff when we were out. We did not need it. So why keep it? We sold it and put the money in the bank. That money was not used to buy a new truck. Our truck money came from our expediting earnings.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I think that anyone who wants to build a C unit, look at Phil's. It is not for everyone, but it illustrates the different componets and how it fits together as a truck than many others that I have seen.

The problem with having a C unit will be a saturation of the fleet with this size.

But with all that said.....

Phil - take it easy on the vendor issue. Unless you want to tell us who not to trust, I would hold back blanket statements about trust. Many vendors do a good job and making statements about trust without specifics is useless (not saying your post was all that bad, the message is involvement.... I think) but maybe writing up something with your experience to tell the reader about what one should have with Vendor expectations and how to select a vendor for a job would help a lot of people.

Oh by the way, I did actually see your truck in person.
 

mrgoodtude

Not a Member
Greg there is no problem with saturation of "C" units...
Not yet anyway, in Phil's defense in our neck of the woods a C unit can and will produce equal revenue.
The freight that said truck will haul is critical at a minimum and small in size.
A good team in a 'C' unit will generate the same revenue as a comparable 'D' unit and maintain a better level of acceptence.
230 k is very realistic for a years gross and you will not work that hard despite of what you folks have been told.
If I were to build my own truck I would do this with confidence,
Volvo chassis with 150" sleeper and a 16' box....
I assure you I will be a top performer in gross revenue and will never look back...Won't have to.
DISCLAIMER...
I would only do this with the FED (Fecc)...Not recommended for any other carrier as I have not worked for same.
Mike
 
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