Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Yes... wasn't it just a few years ago they let Fox News into Canada? I remember my FiL telling me it was on Rogers, at the time.
Ok... so 2004 is recent to me.
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British MP Says Rupert Murdoch Must Answer for Glenn Beck
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Yes... wasn't it just a few years ago they let Fox News into Canada? I remember my FiL telling me it was on Rogers, at the time.
Ok... so 2004 is recent to me.
EnglishLady
Veteran Expediter
Oh I really wish I was better at writing a convincing post Greg I really do - what you perceive and what is actual are two totally different things.
We DO have freedom of speech, we DO elect our local councils, we DO elect our Members of Parliament and our Government.
We are not afraid of our Police Force.
We do not get whisked away in the middle of the night.
I do not see any difference in respect of freedom between the US and UK.
Also are you saying that CCTV is not used in the US? and if it is, is it not used to help solve a crime or used as evidence of a crime?
As far as TV standards go - it is something that we enforce as a people and I'm happy to have the Watchdog looking out for us. Very, very rarely do we hear that something has been banned from our TV screens.
On the flip side - Only yesterday I saw something about a UK TV series that is going to be remade over here (I had never heard of the series personally.. SKINS) and how the US court was thinking of banning the US remake, because it broke the child pornography law ....... our legal adult age is 18 yrs and the "characters" in the show apparently were having sex. the characters also apparently use drugs (How that ever got onto UK TV I don't know - but there you have it)
I'm not taking umbridge with you Greg - but I think you are wrong about how you see us and our freedom.
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
How does that "freedom for the people" to own guns going in the UK??? Particularly hand guns...
EnglishLady
Veteran Expediter
How does that "freedom for the people" to own guns going in the UK??? Particularly hand guns...
LOL you know thats not the area we are talking about Dennis
Yes, we are allowed to own guns too - and yes it is probably more strictly enforced with heaps of restrictions - (its more swords and suits of armour for us - not guns LOL)
so I have no argument on that score
Hey EnglishLady, I wonder if you know this one.
During WWII there was great concern that because the English people we not armed that they would have problems resisting the Germans if and when England was invaded.
U.S. citizens collected around 7000 guns and shipped them to England to help.
Now, they were pretty useless. All different calibers, gauges etc.
After the war the English government gathered up those guns. They did NOT return them to the U.S. They took them out to sea and dropped them overboard. WHY? The home office stated that English citizens could NOT BE TRUSTED to have them. That it would make the government WEAKER. The government had to remain in total control.
Look it up, totally true story.
During WWII there was great concern that because the English people we not armed that they would have problems resisting the Germans if and when England was invaded.
U.S. citizens collected around 7000 guns and shipped them to England to help.
Now, they were pretty useless. All different calibers, gauges etc.
After the war the English government gathered up those guns. They did NOT return them to the U.S. They took them out to sea and dropped them overboard. WHY? The home office stated that English citizens could NOT BE TRUSTED to have them. That it would make the government WEAKER. The government had to remain in total control.
Look it up, totally true story.
EnglishLady
Veteran Expediter
I can find a lot on the guns that we purchased
from the USA but nothing at all on the second part of your post. And whereas I had heard of the arms purchased, I have never heard of this other part of which you speak Do you have a link?
I can find a lot on the guns that we purchased
Do you have a link?
Just one so far. Posting another link for you on the "history of English gun control laws.
The name of the U.S. Program:
"American Committee for Defense of British Homes."
Still looking for more They are very hard to find for some reason.
Twin Butte Bunch
ALL THE WAY DOWN THE SLIPPERY SLOPE: GUN PROHIBITION IN ENGLAND AND SOME LESSONS FOR CIVIL LIBERTIES IN AMERICA
EnglishLady
Veteran Expediter
LOL!!! You most likely WON'T find a UK version. I think it is "protected" by the "Official Secrets Act" They want to keep this information from YOU!!! HEHEHEHE!! Maybe we can get the "Wikileaks" dude to put something out on this!!
I AM being SO rotten today, am I not?
Maybe we can get the "Wikileaks" dude to put something out on this!! I AM being SO rotten today, am I not?
EnglishLady
Veteran Expediter
LOL!!! You most likely WON'T find a UK version. I think it is "protected" by the "Official Secrets Act" They want to keep this information from YOU!!! HEHEHEHE!!
I AM being SO rotten today, am I not?
LOL not all - its an area I never even thought about looking into before, so I am learning too
Interestingly enough guess what I found .........
"Few people in England realise that the English have a Bill of Rights and that it predates the US Bill of Rights by almost 100 years. The English Bill of Rights 1689 is, indeed, the basis for the US model enacted shortly after Independence"
Yep I'm one of the few ... didn't know that
and then this .....
Gun politics in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Enjoy - I'm going to make a cup of tea
You and your TEA!!!
EnglishLady
Veteran Expediter
You and your TEA!!!
They obviously weren't that successful at the Boston Tea Party
btw still not finding anything on the second part of your previous post ... not a sausage!
They obviously weren't that successful at the Boston Tea Party
btw still not finding anything on the second part of your previous post ... not a sausage!
I am having problems too. I keep getting knocked off line.
By the way, I knew about the "English Bill of Rights". We learned that in our "AMERICAN" government classes!! How strange is that?
EnglishLady
Veteran Expediter
Ummm
they may have taught it in history at school - I wasn't particularly attentive back then - but now I can't get enough
Ummm
I really liked history in school. I was lucky in the 11th grade to have a fantastic history teacher. Mr. Menard. He is dead now. He not only taught history but taught how to learn it!! No memorizing dates. We learned concepts, ideas etc. I use what I learned from that man all the time. GREAT TEACHER!! One of the very FEW goods ones I had, at ANY level!!
We started our "History of WWII" by going back to 1580 to trace its roots.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Oh I really wish I was better at writing a convincing post Greg I really do - what you perceive and what is actual are two totally different things.
I would agree with you but there is an issue with facts over perception. I won't get into the history of the English freedoms but will say that the time between the late Victorian age and the 60's seen more of its fair share of censorship and laws dealing with restrictions of speech. Just in WW1 alone, there was strict censorship with the public and the German question.
I agree, you do have that, you actually have more influence on the local level than we do here, and many many times the MPs are effective in representing their constituents in more and better ways than we have, the difference is beyond that, it is at the federal level.
AND your police force is also very effective in doing their job within some constraints that has been changing for the times.
Nope you don't get whisked away in the middle of the night ... however the extent of some of the laws that are used to punish people are borderline to that - one example is charging a child with discrimination because she didn't want to deal with people who refused to speak English in a class room. I don't remeber the name of the kid but it was a bizarre case which I think she got probation.
Solving a crime is one thing, blanketing an entire city to monitor behavior is another - this is the impression that many get. You can't tell me that there isn't someone watching for say improper behavior?
Yes it is used here but not to the extent as it is there and there are completely different rules for the use of it in the court room.
The rest of it I will try to clarify by saying this.
The problem isn't with a watchdog group or laws that prevent something from taking place but rather the issue with trying to prevent feelings being hurt. If you read the last OfCom broadcast standards (2010) and the EU broadcast standards, it is used as a preemption to be offended - a lot like a Minority Report situation. The difference is we here do not deal in feelings, there is no standard for being offended because it is a matter of opinion, not a set standard that can be applied to everyone.
SO to analogize it (not well but ... ) if I say on my television show on BBC4 that cat owners are ugly wankers who deserve to be eaten by dogs and want to take over the world but some MP pushed for a law that defines cat owners as a 'protected' class of people then my comments are offensive to them and I'm in trouble under both OfCom and EU broadcast standards. Even if they are not a "protected' class, there is still a standard that is enforced by the definition of what is offensive speech and what isn't - which in reality doesn't mean a thing because it is a matter of opinion.
EnglishLady
Veteran Expediter
I would agree with you but there is an issue with facts over perception. I won't get into the history of the English freedoms but will say that the time between the late Victorian age and the 60's seen more of its fair share of censorship and laws dealing with restrictions of speech. Just in WW1 alone, there was strict censorship with the public and the German question.
Agreed on the WW1 & WWII - "Loose lips costs lives" etc
I agree, you do have that, you actually have more influence on the local level than we do here, and many many times the MPs are effective in representing their constituents in more and better ways than we have, the difference is beyond that, it is at the federal level.
AND your police force is also very effective in doing their job within some constraints that has been changing for the times.
I will check with my son on that one - he is a policeman
Nope you don't get whisked away in the middle of the night ... however the extent of some of the laws that are used to punish people are borderline to that - one example is charging a child with discrimination because she didn't want to deal with people who refused to speak English in a class room. I don't remeber the name of the kid but it was a bizarre case which I think she got probation.
In England minors can be charged with a criminal offence at 10 years of age - check out James Bulger
Solving a crime is one thing, blanketing an entire city to monitor behavior is another - this is the impression that many get. You can't tell me that there isn't someone watching for say improper behavior?
If that is how it is seen, I cannot persuade you otherwise -pesonally I don't look it as a problem more a safeguard - but then again I am probably one of the few in the UK that agreed to ID cards.
there is an ongoing case at the moment in the UK where the CCTV have been of enormous assistance to the police
Yes it is used here but not to the extent as it is there and there are completely different rules for the use of it in the court room.
The rest of it I will try to clarify by saying this.
The problem isn't with a watchdog group or laws that prevent something from taking place but rather the issue with trying to prevent feelings being hurt. If you read the last OfCom broadcast standards (2010) and the EU broadcast standards, it is used as a preemption to be offended - a lot like a Minority Report situation. The difference is we here do not deal in feelings, there is no standard for being offended because it is a matter of opinion, not a set standard that can be applied to everyone.
SO to analogize it (not well but ... ) if I say on my television show on BBC4 that cat owners are ugly wankers who deserve to be eaten by dogs and want to take over the world but some MP pushed for a law that defines cat owners as a 'protected' class of people then my comments are offensive to them and I'm in trouble under both OfCom and EU broadcast standards. Even if they are not a "protected' class, there is still a standard that is enforced by the definition of what is offensive speech and what isn't - which in reality doesn't mean a thing because it is a matter of opinion.
ROFL You wouldn't have got very far on your show - not because you insulted someone's cat, but because you used the 'W' word
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I know about the case and the following aftermath that had an outside court to determine if the outcome of the trial was fair or not. The same goes for Mary Bell and a few others but the situation I sited was a different altogether and didn't really involve a crime of murder or assault. The situation was this a girl in school objecting to her teacher about being placed with kids who refused to allow her to participate in the class assignment by not speaking English. She asked the teacher to be placed in another group and the teacher called the cops, claiming that she was asking to be moved based on a notion that the child was racist. She was charged but I don't have my note book with me so I can't tell you the case date, the outcome or the child's name. This is a good illustration when people start to question themselves and the country. In the last say 8 years or so, there has been a lot of talk about racism, hate crimes and antisemitism happening in the UK and throughout some of Europe. This case is an extreme but not the only one. It was talked about over here as a freedom of expression platform for discussion.
Don't get me wrong about CCTV, it serves a very good purpose, but it is open to abuse.
EnglishLady
Veteran Expediter
Well after A LOT of searching Greg, I am unable to find anything on the prosecution that you have mentioned.
If you can find the case I would indeed be interested in reading it.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I too am searching for the information, I thought it would be easy to find. It did happen, I wrote a post or two here on EO about it a while ago.