Bolt driver killed

guido4475 · Apr 16, 2010

Why do some s/t drivers think regulating vans will change things? Van drivers are in the same class of vehicle as the thousands of people I saw making the trip home to mich or wisc from florida last weekend from spring break. Are they regulated?Absolutely not, and I saw alot of them driving obviously tired and weaving.I think it is just jealously, because we dont have to put up with as nearly much b/s as you do in a regulated s/t, and our cost per mile is way less, while our net profit is alot more of a s/t.I have been on both sides of the fence, and I wish I would of done the van thing alot earlier.Don't think s/t's run all legal like, there may be some, but I used to one of them that would run more than a team, sometimes hitting over 6,500 miles in a week.I dont miss those days of stupidity.And I am paying the price physically now for that.One day vans will be regulated, I'm sure,don't know how, but it will be a mess. Imagine Joe the plumber or Bob the furnace man or Sebastian the flower guy getting dot'd and requiring to follow the dot rules.C'mon, how are they going to really regulate a van?Might as well pull in church vans full of Amish, also.And don't forget the ice cream vans as well...

The best thing we can do is all pray for the drivers family for strength and guidance.Let God take care of the rest.

LDB · Apr 16, 2010

I'm not jealous of anything. I own 3 st and my van. I could still be in a st if I wanted to. That said, I am all for sensibility and whatever it takes to insure as much safety as possible. Spring break is a breeding ground for stupidity and immaturity. Saying not to make one segment safer due to the stupidity of another segment makes no sense though. And frankly, if a solo falsifies things and runs 5-6k miles a week, I'd like to see them lose their license and possibly their vehicle too. That kind of reckless disregard for safety deserves strict and harsh consequences. That's generic and universal, not specific to anyone or any single situation.

greg334 · Apr 16, 2010

guido4475 said:
Why do some s/t drivers think regulating vans will change things?

I think it will eliminate the lazy driver who thinks they deserve to be completely unregulated.

Last night I experienced not just a tired expediter, but one from a company seen advertised here who seems to speak about safety.

I won't go into details but it is serious enough to make a big deal about it.

guido4475 · Apr 16, 2010

I dont know, maybe I'm a little tired or something, but can you explain youre first sentence in youre reply?About the lazy driver?

greg334 · Apr 16, 2010

Guido, I don't know... look around and tell me.

When I was driving a van, I saw all forms of people who should not be driving at all, let alone a van full of freight. They didn't give a crap about anything, and presented themselves they were special and screw everyone else.

A lot of these companies make it easier for someone who has a poor attitude and wants to take chances but then people just don't get why a company may not like this - an infringement on their "right" then the company limits them.

The last conversation I had with someone at a truck stop was with a few van drivers and even then it was the same crap with a couple of them - they don't want to put any more effort into "doing this job" then they have to.

I think regulating vans may be helpful to everyone in the long run to thin out the herd, the same goes for a stiffer requirements in getting into a truck.

moose · Apr 17, 2010

greg334 said:
I think regulating vans may be helpful to everyone in the long run to thin out the herd, the same goes for a stiffer requirements in getting into a truck.

Is there any safety benefit in the near future supporting that statement ? ,& dose it's out benefit the lost of freedom ?
as stated here many times B4 , the gov. have no business in running a business .

skyraider · Apr 17, 2010

Rabbit trails,,,,Ive got a headache.

Turtle · Apr 17, 2010

"I think it will eliminate the lazy driver who thinks they deserve to be completely unregulated."

That's the problem right there. Too many people think drivers are regulated, but it's the vehicle that is regulated, not the driver. The driver is regulated only to the extent of what kind of vehicle he drives with respect to the vehicle. A Class A CDL holder is not regulated when driving an unregulated vehicle. The regulations are there for the safety of the public, and it's not the driver that poses a danger to the public, it's the weight of the vehicle, and, according to the FMCSA, the weight of a fully loaded cargo van poses absolutely no more danger to the public than does anyone else out there in the general public, and that's why cargo vans are not regulated, nor are the likely to become regulated "very soon", as some have been putting it for years.

Yes, a tired cargo van driver poses a danger, but it's no more of a danger than a tired Buick Riviera driver. The DOT and the FMCSA have zero data to support regulating cargo vans. None. There is zero data to support that regulating cargo vans would reduce or lessen accidents or fatalities. None. In fact, the DOT, FMCSA and the NHTSA all say the same thing, that commercial cargo vans accidents and fatalities exactly mirror that of the general driving public, and there is no evidence to support the conclusion that regulating commercial cargo vans would in any way whatsoever reduce those rates.

Clearly, wanting cargo vans to log is simply a case of, "If I have to, they should have to, too."

LDB · Apr 17, 2010

It's not the same as a Riviera driver though. It's more similar than a Riviera and an FL70 or a Riviera and a T600 but there's a definite difference between a cargo van at 7831 pounds gross that's been driven 841 miles by a guy who was up 12 hours before he started driving and a Riviera at 3500 gross. Even if the Riviera driver is equally tired there's still less danger to the public when the car is less than half the weight of the loaded van.

aileron · Apr 17, 2010

I think that regulating the cargo vans will not work. We don't have a DOT approved sleeper, what are they going to do? Require us to have a motel receipt each night? I certainly cannot afford it at $.85 cpm, and there are a slew of companies paying a lot less than that.

I, for one, will get out if they regulate it.

aristotle · Apr 17, 2010

LDB... it seems you're on a personal mission to regulate everyone and everything. Is controlling others to your liking that big a deal to you? This is scary stuff.

Legislate/regulate
Legislate/regulate
Legislate/regulate

I don't know where this zeal to control fits in the political spectrum, but your conservative bonafides are long gone.

We don't know the facts surrounding the accident in Texas. So please, let's show some respect to the deceased driver rather than using this incident to score some cheap debating points. Points that have no merit.

pjjjjj · Apr 17, 2010

LDB said:
...there's a definite difference between a cargo van at 7831 pounds gross that's been driven 841 miles by a guy who was up 12 hours before he started driving and a Riviera at 3500 gross. Even if the Riviera driver is equally tired there's still less danger to the public when the car is less than half the weight of the loaded van.

I haven't seen any stats on this but perhaps the stats-analyzers have determined that any resulting carnage will not be that much greater with the 7831lbs, vs the 3500lbs. I'm thinking that if it were, vans would have been regulated by now.

OntarioVanMan · Apr 17, 2010

I notice more and more companies having a CV dock made...look out straights, we are going to take even more loads....

greg334 · Apr 17, 2010

Moose,

Read the constitution, they are charged with regulating interstate commerce so yes they have the right to stick their nose into this business. I don't like it but I can't argue with it.

The problem is the same regardless what the vehicle is - there are bad drivers and these regulations target the bad ones but because it is impossible to figure out who is bad or good, they just say everyone has to deal with it and there are no exceptions.

My problem is with this industry, not expediting but trucking. They make it easy to get people into the driver's seat but don't correct bad behavior because the trainers are not seeing it. Then when on the road, no one wants to get involved when they see something wrong. It is akin to some social club. There is a fear that if someone tells on another, they are looked down on within the group. This industry has too many bad people who can't be offset by the good people, which is too bad and needs to be corrected.

layoutshooter · Apr 17, 2010

greg334 said:
Moose,

Read the constitution, they are charged with regulating interstate commerce so yes they have the right to stick their nose into this business. I don't like it but I can't argue with it.

The problem is the same regardless what the vehicle is - there are bad drivers and these regulations target the bad ones but because it is impossible to figure out who is bad or good, they just say everyone has to deal with it and there are no exceptions.

My problem is with this industry, not expediting but trucking. They make it easy to get people into the driver's seat but don't correct bad behavior because the trainers are not seeing it. Then when on the road, no one wants to get involved when they see something wrong. It is akin to some social club. There is a fear that if someone tells on another, they are looked down on within the group. This industry has too many bad people who can't be offset by the good people, which is too bad and needs to be corrected.

What is needed is better training. Everybody starts someplace. What else is needed is personal responsibility. That is really what is missing these days.

guido4475 · Apr 17, 2010

aristotle said:
LDB... it seems you're on a personal mission to regulate everyone and everything. Is controlling others to your liking that big a deal to you? This is scary stuff.

Legislate/regulate
Legislate/regulate
Legislate/regulate

I don't know where this zeal to control fits in the political spectrum, but your conservative bonafides are long gone.

We don't know the facts surrounding the accident in Texas. So please, let's show some respect to the deceased driver rather than using this incident to score some cheap debating points. Points that have no merit.

Ain't that the truth!!! Always seems to be grumpy to me, rarely agrees with anyone or anything....