Got it! Can I vote more than once?
A strike by a bunch of delusional O/Os is useless. They have no real power despite thinking they do.
A strike by a bunch of delusional O/Os is useless. They have no real power despite thinking they do.
Black Smoke Matters...
- Thread starter Ragman
- Start date
Have we forgotten the fuel surcharge?
Didn't that come in after a strike? The only pointless strike I saw lately was the Canadian one where they were protesting the MTO (DOT for canucks) from fining them too much. Nobody seemed to care about those poor schmucks put OOS for defects
My long post before was just to make the point, if I can negotiate with 1 stupid old van, 250,000 trucks might make more of a point.
I also expected the employees to strike too, not just owner ops. Of course a bunch of owner ops striking won't accomplish anything. Other than to lose customers
You know what? Scratch the strike. Anybody unhappy with trucking, find another field, and quit permanently. Let them try and lure enough drivers to fill the spots. (I kinda think that's slowly going on)
Look at the rates rising just from people actually following HOS laws.
Didn't that come in after a strike? The only pointless strike I saw lately was the Canadian one where they were protesting the MTO (DOT for canucks) from fining them too much. Nobody seemed to care about those poor schmucks put OOS for defects
My long post before was just to make the point, if I can negotiate with 1 stupid old van, 250,000 trucks might make more of a point.
I also expected the employees to strike too, not just owner ops. Of course a bunch of owner ops striking won't accomplish anything. Other than to lose customers
You know what? Scratch the strike. Anybody unhappy with trucking, find another field, and quit permanently. Let them try and lure enough drivers to fill the spots. (I kinda think that's slowly going on)
Look at the rates rising just from people actually following HOS laws.
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While pulling for GM they decided not to pay any FSC. We were Teamsters that were union employees that rented them our trucks, driving as employees.
We did not strike. 180 out of 185 O/Os went OOS for repairs. We met daily at the Union Hall for a brief rally/ update. We were not on strike. A union official asked a driver why he drove his truck to the rally. The driver said he was waiting for a slot to open to get in for urgent repairs.
Our freight backed up a few days, clogging GM’s yard to the point they could not receive needed inbound shipments for their rail loading facility. They had to turn inbound trucks away.
The next day GM called and offered a very lucrative, unlimited fuel surcharge.
No strike, just a bunch of O/O’s willing to stick together.
We did not strike. 180 out of 185 O/Os went OOS for repairs. We met daily at the Union Hall for a brief rally/ update. We were not on strike. A union official asked a driver why he drove his truck to the rally. The driver said he was waiting for a slot to open to get in for urgent repairs.
Our freight backed up a few days, clogging GM’s yard to the point they could not receive needed inbound shipments for their rail loading facility. They had to turn inbound trucks away.
The next day GM called and offered a very lucrative, unlimited fuel surcharge.
No strike, just a bunch of O/O’s willing to stick together.
The biggest problems with getting people together is the paycheck to paycheck mentality. Not enough are able or willing to sacrifice a months wages if necessary. You got to be willing to risk being fired if you shut down. You’ll get hired elsewhere . Unlike Kapernick.
My problems aren’t your problems. Although almost every trucker is needing HOS flexibility. And is affected by parking issues. And most suffer from too much uncompensated work. And the 1099 deal is bull crap, although most don’t understand why.
Back in the Union’s heyday, most drivers could afford to take thier families somewhere on their paid vacations. A lot of these new divers need that 50 weeks of work to get by.
Sad.
My problems aren’t your problems. Although almost every trucker is needing HOS flexibility. And is affected by parking issues. And most suffer from too much uncompensated work. And the 1099 deal is bull crap, although most don’t understand why.
Back in the Union’s heyday, most drivers could afford to take thier families somewhere on their paid vacations. A lot of these new divers need that 50 weeks of work to get by.
Sad.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
I agree but action should have been taken sooner. Everyone knew ELDs were coming. Why wait until the law takes effect to protest? The BSM group wants all truckers to shut down for at least one day in protest. That usually means that a few nutjobs, some that probably have no connection to trucking for their livelihoods, will be shooting at trucks and dropping bowling balls from overpasses. Blocking highways isn't a very good way to get the sympathy and support of the general public.
Organizations like OOIDA should spend more time and money educating the public. Most people would think truckers are crazy to want to work more than 14 hours a day. They don't understand all the ramifications of mandatory ELDs.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
From what I understand, they're protesting the inflexibility of the HOS. I can get aboard that train. Our HOS is very unforgiving.
The first I heard of this strike is from reading this thread. In the article Rags linked, BSM is quoted " At the top of the list is the electronic-logging-device (ELD) mandate, which came into effect in December 2017." The article is written by someone who has probably never parked her butt in a truck. The lead picture is a guy climbing into a day cab dump truck which most likely doesn't have an ELD. So to me the info in the article is suspect.
If truckers are protesting the "new" HOS, why didn't they take action before it became law. I agree that the HOS need to be revised but I don't believe a halfass strike is the way to go.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
In my experience, the HOS was put back in the forefront by the ELD being so inflexible.
The HOS have always been unflexable.
When you’re out of hours, you’re out of hours.
Deal with it.
I logged probably close to 4 million miles.
I had my share of 20 hour days. A couple of 1000 mile days.Two books when needed. Not my lifestyle.
In the early 90’s a big wreck happened in front of me. I had a semi tanker of flammable and stopped inches from the vehicle in front of me.
I was in the yard later that day and told dispatch that I was running legal from that day forward.
They were confused. They had company guys that ran legal. They needed us O/Os to do the harder stuff.
The HOS are tough. They could be more flexible. Until then realize you can’t drive 11 hours everyday. You won’t be where the parking is.
Some days you’ll only drive 5 or 6.
Sometimes you need to leave on Sunday instead of Monday. Or at 03:00 instead of when the sun comes up.
If you can’t get home Friday, you’ll probably get there Saturday. It sucks. Stop hauling cheap freight.
If the reward doesn’t justify the time needed to run legal, try some other line of work.
I’d like to see flexibility. Loved the split sleeper birth, particularly as a solo. I really don’t see much of it changing.
If ELDs had come when I was younger, I probably would have baled sooner.
To me, ELDs weren’t much of a problem as a team.
When you’re out of hours, you’re out of hours.
Deal with it.
I logged probably close to 4 million miles.
I had my share of 20 hour days. A couple of 1000 mile days.Two books when needed. Not my lifestyle.
In the early 90’s a big wreck happened in front of me. I had a semi tanker of flammable and stopped inches from the vehicle in front of me.
I was in the yard later that day and told dispatch that I was running legal from that day forward.
They were confused. They had company guys that ran legal. They needed us O/Os to do the harder stuff.
The HOS are tough. They could be more flexible. Until then realize you can’t drive 11 hours everyday. You won’t be where the parking is.
Some days you’ll only drive 5 or 6.
Sometimes you need to leave on Sunday instead of Monday. Or at 03:00 instead of when the sun comes up.
If you can’t get home Friday, you’ll probably get there Saturday. It sucks. Stop hauling cheap freight.
If the reward doesn’t justify the time needed to run legal, try some other line of work.
I’d like to see flexibility. Loved the split sleeper birth, particularly as a solo. I really don’t see much of it changing.
If ELDs had come when I was younger, I probably would have baled sooner.
To me, ELDs weren’t much of a problem as a team.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
"Deal with it."
It's the HOS coupled with the ELDs that's the issue. With just HOS, we could go past a few minutes to find a parking spot. We could push our 30 min down 15 minutes so retards didn't have to do it in the fuel island. Shippers still don't give a crap that we're running out of hours, and many won't let us stay on their property to do a 10. Southern California still won't let you find a safe haven at 5pm.
We are dealing with it. Trying to get things changed for the better is dealing with it. You dealt with it by going to something much easier. I'm dealing with it by going with the flow. But I still despise having a bean counter make up trucking rules when he/she has never dealt with the crap we have.
I can’t argue as you make valid points.,
Except you want to cheat when you need to. ( the extra 15 minutes to find parking).Thats cheating. On paper or electronically.
You should have parked at 9 hours.
Parking was a major hassle for me running solo my last 18 months. It was amplified by Landstar’s sitting duck policy. The would fire you if caught parking on a ramp or even in in a Truckstop if not in a lined space. I bought a lot of paid spaces. In spots , paid spaces sold out.
Complaining didn’t get me a space. Modifying my schedule did.
My point is, in most operations you’re not going to be able to max your hours. On paper, you could make it appear right. Now, it is what it is.
Except you want to cheat when you need to. ( the extra 15 minutes to find parking).Thats cheating. On paper or electronically.
You should have parked at 9 hours.
Parking was a major hassle for me running solo my last 18 months. It was amplified by Landstar’s sitting duck policy. The would fire you if caught parking on a ramp or even in in a Truckstop if not in a lined space. I bought a lot of paid spaces. In spots , paid spaces sold out.
Complaining didn’t get me a space. Modifying my schedule did.
My point is, in most operations you’re not going to be able to max your hours. On paper, you could make it appear right. Now, it is what it is.
We got emissions garbage after the manufacturers got caught cheating.
The ELDs came with technology, as a way to try to keep drivers from cheating.
A driver from Hebron In used his paper logs as his defense after he was charged with killing his wife. His logs showed him to be laidover 3 or 4 hours away. ( He was found not guilty)
If drivers got an extra 30 minutes to find parking some would start looking at 11 hours.
Anything you give them won’t be enough. After years of abuse, the goal is to enforce compliance.
Got any better ways to enforce compliance that would work ?
The ELDs came with technology, as a way to try to keep drivers from cheating.
A driver from Hebron In used his paper logs as his defense after he was charged with killing his wife. His logs showed him to be laidover 3 or 4 hours away. ( He was found not guilty)
If drivers got an extra 30 minutes to find parking some would start looking at 11 hours.
Anything you give them won’t be enough. After years of abuse, the goal is to enforce compliance.
Got any better ways to enforce compliance that would work ?
I never, ever ran two logbooks. But almost every day I technically broke the law. I considered it fudging. The speed limit was 55MPH. Most company polices was a maximum of 53 or 54 mph. One could easily run 60+ unfettered without LEO intervention. Also unpaid detention time at grocery houses came into play. As Thawk mention, ELDs are unforgiving.
Even as a lowly vanner loaded with Hazmat during the long changeover by different states from 55 mph to whatever: I had to fudge my logs to accommodate for the different speed limits to satisfy my 53 mph safety department. Can't do that with ELDs.
I still believe an O/O strike will do more harm than good.
Even as a lowly vanner loaded with Hazmat during the long changeover by different states from 55 mph to whatever: I had to fudge my logs to accommodate for the different speed limits to satisfy my 53 mph safety department. Can't do that with ELDs.
I still believe an O/O strike will do more harm than good.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
So it's cheating. The alternative is having a nanny who will keep you in the corner for moving to Driving by going across a truckstop parking lot.
I'm not big on running HOS illegally. I've past that point in my life. But running out of hours in rush hour traffic, then going an hour illegally to find a parking spot... I'd be in prison if some idiot ran into my truck and died. You can modify all you want beforehand - a shipper or consignee has the real say-so. I do my best to park it by 5. It doesn't always happen. I have no problem paying for parking when I need to. But you're right - many do wait until the 11th hour to make their plans, regardless of what ELD says.
30 min a week wildcard is not too much to ask.
A 30 minute wildcard once a week would be great.
Most would say “not enough.”
I chuckled at being past the point of two books.
I didn’t do it as habit. But most get to the point of being past it.
Really, it was too easy to cheat, wasn’t it.
Most would say “not enough.”
I chuckled at being past the point of two books.
I didn’t do it as habit. But most get to the point of being past it.
Really, it was too easy to cheat, wasn’t it.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
No, it wasn't too easy to cheat. But in the end, was 6 hours of rest any less meaningful than 10 hours? Was an 8 and 2 more beneficial than a 5 and 5? A lot of the things they put in the HOS makes me MORE tired. The 14 hour rule is a mess.
Truckers to slow-roll more than 100 miles on I-57
I believe it’s immature and adolescent, but I support the cause.
I believe it’s immature and adolescent, but I support the cause.