Black Friday - Time to stop the maddness

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
How much crazier can Black Friday get? :eek:


By CHRIS HAWLEY | AP

NEW YORK (AP) — Pepper-sprayed customers, smash-and-grab looters and bloody scenes in the shopping aisles. How did Black Friday devolve into this?

As reports of shopping-related violence rolled in this week from Los Angeles to New York, experts say a volatile mix of desperate retailers and cutthroat marketing has hyped the traditional post-Thanksgiving sales to increasingly frenzied levels. With stores opening earlier, bargain-obsessed shoppers often are sleep-deprived and short-tempered. Arriving in darkness, they also find themselves vulnerable to savvy parking-lot muggers.

Add in the online-coupon phenomenon, which feeds the psychological hunger for finding impossible bargains, and you've got a recipe for trouble, said Theresa Williams, a marketing professor at Indiana University.

"These are people who should know better and have enough stuff already," Williams said. "What's going to be next year, everybody getting Tasered?"

Across the country on Thursday and Friday, there were signs that tensions had ratcheted up a notch or two, with violence resulting in several instances.

A woman turned herself in to police after allegedly pepper-spraying 20 other customers at a Los Angeles-area Walmart on Thursday in what investigators said was an attempt to get at a crate of Xbox video game consoles. In Kinston, N.C., a security guard also pepper-sprayed customers seeking electronics before the start of a midnight sale.

In New York, crowds reportedly looted a clothing store in Soho. At a Walmart near Phoenix, a man was bloodied while being subdued by police officer on suspicion of shoplifting a video game. There was a shooting outside a store in San Leandro, Calif., shots fired at a mall in Fayetteville, N.C. and a stabbing outside a store in Sacramento, N.Y.

"The difference this year is that instead of a nice sweater you need a bullet proof vest and goggles," said Betty Thomas, 52, who was shopping Saturday with her sisters and a niece at Crabtree Valley Mall in Raleigh, N.C.

The wave of violence revived memories of the 2008 Black Friday stampede that killed an employee and put a pregnant woman in the hospital at a Walmart on New York's Long Island. Walmart spokesman Greg Rossiter said Black Friday 2011 was safe at most of its nearly 4,000 U.S. stores despite "a few unfortunate incidents."

Black Friday — named that because it puts retailers "in the black" — has become more intense as companies compete for customers in a weak economy, said Jacob Jacoby, an expert on consumer behavior at New York University.

The idea of luring in customers with a few "doorbuster" deals has long been a staple of the post-Thanksgiving sales. But now stores are opening earlier, and those deals are getting more extreme, he said.

"There's an awful lot of psychology going on here," Jacoby said. "There's the notion of scarcity — when something's scarce it's more valued. And a resource that can be very scarce is time: If you don't get there in time, it's going to be gone."

There's also a new factor, Williams said: the rise of coupon websites like Groupon and LivingSocial, the online equivalents of doorbusters that usually deliver a single, one-day offer with savings of up to 80 percent on museum tickets, photo portraits, yoga classes and the like.

The services encourage impulse buying and an obsession with bargains, Williams said, while also getting businesses hooked on quick infusions of customers.

"The whole notion of getting a deal, that's all we've seen for the last two years," Williams said. "It's about stimulating consumers' quick reactions. How do we get their attention quickly? How do we create cash flow for today?"

To grab customers first, some stores are opening late on Thanksgiving Day, turning bargain-hunting from an early-morning activity into an all-night slog, said Ed Fox, a marketing professor at Southern Methodist University in Dallas. Midnight shopping puts everyone on edge and also makes shoppers targets for muggers, he said.

In fact, robbery appeared to be the motive behind the shooting in San Leandro, about 15 miles east of San Francisco. Police said robbers shot a victim as he was walking to a car with his purchases around 1:45 a.m. on Friday.

"There are so many hours now where people are shopping in the darkness that it provides cover for people who are going to try to steal or rob those who are out in numbers," Fox said.

The violence has prompted some analysts to wonder if the sales are worth it, and what solutions might work.

In a New York Times column this week, economist Robert Frank proposed slapping a 6 percent sales tax on purchases between 6 p.m. on Thanksgiving and 6 a.m. on Friday in an attempt to stop the "arms race" of earlier and earlier sales.

Small retailers, meanwhile, are pushing so-called Small Business Saturday to woo customers who are turned off by the Black Friday crush. President Barack Obama even joined in, going book shopping on Saturday at a small bookstore a few blocks from the White House.

"A lot of retailers, independent retailers, are making the conscious decision to not work those crazy hours," said Patricia Norins, a retail consultant for American Express.

Next up is Cyber Monday, when online retailers put their wares on sale. But on Saturday many shoppers said they still prefer buying at the big stores, despite the frenzy.

Thomas said she likes the time with her sisters and the hustle of the mall too much to stay home and just shop online.

To her, the more pressing problem was that the Thanksgiving weekend sales didn't seem very good.

"If I'm going to get shot, at least let me get a good deal," Thomas said.

___

Associated Press Writers Julie Walker in New York, Christina Rexrode in Raleigh, N.C., John C. Rogers in Los Angeles and Terry Tang in Phoenix contributed to this report
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
So many people have priorities that just plain suck. They put far too much stock in "things" rather than family. Of course, we have gone a long way to change the "reason for season" from a religious celebration to a wild, almost animal, free for all. As long as priorities are messed up this will continue.
 

tbubster

Seasoned Expediter
Yep blame the stores instead of blaming the people who are spraying the mace.Shooting other people and can not understand the rules.As far as the store in NY being looted that store was closed yet its there fault and not the theives.

"These are people who should know better and have enough stuff already," Williams said.Sure is nice to know she sits so high up there to decide who has enough already.


In a New York Times column this week, economist Robert Frank proposed slapping a 6 percent sales tax on purchases between 6 p.m. on Thanksgiving and 6 a.m. on Friday in an attempt to stop the "arms race" of earlier and earlier salesRaising taxes seems to be the answer for all our problems according to this guy.


And we wounder why personal responsibility is becoming a thing of the past:(
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
You know I can't feel a bit sorry for anyone who is involved with this. I watched a news report about people were lined up to get the TV's at Best Buy, a couple who been their all week, which brings me to the conclusion that we do not spend enough money on mental programs or places to put these people.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Yep blame the stores instead of blaming the people who are spraying the mace.Shooting other people and can not understand the rules.As far as the store in NY being looted that store was closed yet its there fault and not the theives.

"These are people who should know better and have enough stuff already," Williams said.Sure is nice to know she sits so high up there to decide who has enough already.


In a New York Times column this week, economist Robert Frank proposed slapping a 6 percent sales tax on purchases between 6 p.m. on Thanksgiving and 6 a.m. on Friday in an attempt to stop the "arms race" of earlier and earlier salesRaising taxes seems to be the answer for all our problems according to this guy.


And we wounder why personal responsibility is becoming a thing of the past:(

images.jpg


Nobody is blaming the stores. The very first paragraph starts with blame being placed on the customers.

NEW YORK (AP) — Pepper-sprayed customers, smash-and-grab looters and bloody scenes in the shopping aisles. How did Black Friday devolve into this?t
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It is disgusting. People who partake in this should be ashamed, except that the idea of shame has been abandoned by the "anything goes" crowd.
 

tbubster

Seasoned Expediter
images.jpg


Nobody is blaming the stores. The very first paragraph starts with blame being placed on the customers.

Thats not what I take from it.

As reports of shopping-related violence rolled in this week from Los Angeles to New York, experts say a volatile mix of desperate retailers and cutthroat marketing has hyped the traditional post-Thanksgiving sales to increasingly frenzied levels
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Thats not what I take from it.

As reports of shopping-related violence rolled in this week from Los Angeles to New York, experts say a volatile mix of desperate retailers and cutthroat marketing has hyped the traditional post-Thanksgiving sales to increasingly frenzied levels

Customers do the shopping and are contributing to the violence.
 

mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
There's plenty of blame to go around, no use hogging it. Businesses and customers are both at fault, and greed is at the bottom of the whole mess.

I won't go near the big malls on Thanksgiving week unless I have no other choice-- and shopping doesn't rate as "no other choice". Whatever it is I think I want, it'll wait.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
I went one year, about 10 years ago (my wife and mom dragged me). Never again! If you want to see what frenzied chimps look like when they're chasing monkeys thru the jungle, go to a big box store on Black Friday. Actually, the youtube vids of actual frenzied chimps will work too. ;)

I don't think it's time to stop the madness. Let Darwin work his magic.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
I want it all,,the tablet, the Razor,the Iphone, earbuds,downloads,the motherload,the new car from Korea,the new cargomax,and the latest Sprinter and a $1.85 for all miles over 50. :eek:
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You know I can't feel a bit sorry for anyone who is involved with this. I watched a news report about people were lined up to get the TV's at Best Buy, a couple who been their all week, which brings me to the conclusion that we do not spend enough money on mental programs or places to put these people.

This place comes to mind.

5343331390_dae6b673fe.jpg
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Without defending the idiots who cannot behave in a civil fashion, why do retailers continue to set the stage for mad stampedes by having far less of the merchandise than anticipated demand, thereby guaranteeing a mob of people pushing & shoving [and trampling!] to get in front?
Materialism is deplorable, as is the behavior of many of the shoppers, but the biggest part of the blame goes to the retailers who make it happen. It's their actions that cause the feeding frenzy, why don't they make it stop? :confused:

 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It is not the retailers causing the problems. It is the lemmings that are stupid enough to fall for it and act the way they do. It always boils down to personal responsibility. Stores can hype all they want. No one is forced to show up.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
It is not the retailers causing the problems. It is the lemmings that are stupid enough to fall for it and act the way they do. It always boils down to personal responsibility. Stores can hype all they want. No one is forced to show up.

I see what Cheri is saying. Who's at fault when a handler throws enough meat for 5 dogs into a pit of 20 dogs, and some of the dogs get killed in the process? I say the handler, if the dogs are captive. But ultimately who is at fault if the dogs came of their own free will?
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Cheri,
I would agree with you but the problem is no one is forcing one person to act like an idiot and chase things they don't need. I can't see the need for the behavior, it is part of that herd behavior that many have been conditioned to for a long long time. You can think it is the retailer who has been to blame but you know when people give up their senses to gain stuff because of their own selfishness. One example is store closeouts, not that anyone needs the junk they have but when the liquidator puts a higher price on an item and then discounts it say 40%, there are people who will buy it, even though there is another one somewhere else for the same price.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I see what Cheri is saying. Who's at fault when a handler throws enough meat for 5 dogs into a pit of 20 dogs, and some of the dogs get killed in the process? I say the handler, if the dogs are captive. But ultimately who is at fault if the dogs came of their own free will?

People are not dogs. People should be smarter. As I said no one has ever been forced to show up for a "Black Friday" sale. It is 100% a choice. Acting bad is 100% a choice.

As to the retailers not having stock, it is not always their fault. Getting stock is often not in their control.
 

BigCat

Expert Expediter
I went this week to walmart to get my son a wii video game system. It was for the most part civilized but then again I live in backwoods of Missouri.

They had a nice "take this number and when we call it come get your item". The numbers were from 1 to whatever the number of items were.

The hectic part was standing in line for 2 hours to pay for the wii, my wife's waffle maker and her Paula deen cookware.
 

scottm4211

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
People are not dogs. People should be smarter. As I said no one has ever been forced to show up for a "Black Friday" sale. It is 100% a choice. Acting bad is 100% a choice.

As to the retailers not having stock, it is not always their fault. Getting stock is often not in their control.

When a retailer puts in their ad "limit 2 per store" it's a bit disingenuous to claim they are not partly culpable.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
When a retailer puts in their ad "limit 2 per store" it's a bit disingenuous to claim they are not partly culpable.

Prove to me that anyone was forced to go buy one of those two dohickys. Besides, most of the things people fight over are luxuries. TV's and video games are not needed for life. They are toys, not food.

It is a choice. Nothing more. People are just stupid and fall for the hype.
 
Top