Best Starting battery for a gm van.

Rocketman

Veteran Expediter
I've searched the old threads, but most of the battery questions seem to be for trucks. So...

I need to replace the factory installed starting battery on my CargoMax. I've killed it at least a half dozen times now and it's just not got much left in it. Now that I have an auxillary battery, I will eventually wire all of the auxillary loads to the auxillary battery.

What I want though, is the best starting battery I can get for the van? What is the best bang for my buck?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Best bang for the buck in cranking batteries is the Duralast Gold from Autozone. It's made by Johnson Controls and is internally identical to the Sears Die Hard Gold battery. Except it's considerably cheaper. Both have long warranties.
 

Rocketman

Veteran Expediter
Best bang for the buck in cranking batteries is the Duralast Gold from Autozone. It's made by Johnson Controls and is internally identical to the Sears Die Hard Gold battery. Except it's considerably cheaper. Both have long warranties.
Cool...thanks :)
I'll get one asap.
 

wvcourier

Expert Expediter
Cool...thanks :)
I'll get one asap.

I just purchased a duralast gold with an 8 yr warranty, with 800 cold and 1000 @ 32 with 110 reserve capacity...was wondering if that was a good investment.

Dont steal, the government hates competition. ~Ron Paul~
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I just purchased a duralast gold with an 8 yr warranty, with 800 cold and 1000 @ 32 with 110 reserve capacity...was wondering if that was a good investment.

Dont steal, the government hates competition. ~Ron Paul~

It's a good investment as long as you completely ignore what the reserve capacity can be used for.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Rocket, you may want to look into the Duralast Platinum battery. I have a Sears Diehard Platinum. My Chevy requires a battery with side posts. Both the Duralast and Sears platinums come with side and top posts and are AGM batteries. I use the top posts to supply power to some auxiliary lighting. The top posts are also convenient for attaching jumper cables or a charger. Not sure if the difference in price between the gold and platinum is worth the convenience of having top posts, but I like them.
 

Rocketman

Veteran Expediter
Rocket, you may want to look into the Duralast Platinum battery. I have a Sears Diehard Platinum. My Chevy requires a battery with side posts. Both the Duralast and Sears platinums come with side and top posts and are AGM batteries. I use the top posts to supply power to some auxiliary lighting. The top posts are also convenient for attaching jumper cables or a charger. Not sure if the difference in price between the gold and platinum is worth the convenience of having top posts, but I like them.
I'll check it out...thanks!
 

Rocketman

Veteran Expediter
Rocket, you may want to look into the Duralast Platinum battery. I have a Sears Diehard Platinum. My Chevy requires a battery with side posts. Both the Duralast and Sears platinums come with side and top posts and are AGM batteries. I use the top posts to supply power to some auxiliary lighting. The top posts are also convenient for attaching jumper cables or a charger. Not sure if the difference in price between the gold and platinum is worth the convenience of having top posts, but I like them.
I've also found a Duralast Gold with side and top posts. The only thing I would use the top post for would be to run a line to my auxillary battery, but it would be handy for that.

So now, the question being...is the AGM worth it? The Gold battery is not AGM as I understand the description..and the platinum is. It looks like even the Optima battery is only $100 more than the Gold...I don't mind an extra $100 if there is an advantage.
 

mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Relacing with original equipment is good for starting, it'll last a couple of years at least. The problem comes in when you try to make that battery do "housekeeping" chores as well as what it was initially designed for, which is starting and balancing your charging system. For everything except what the truck originally has on it, you want a housekeeping battery pack, isolated from the starting system.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I agree with mjmsprt40. AGM batteries are worth it, but they are designed for deep cycling applications rather than starting applications. You can certainly use an AGM battery as a cranking battery, but it becomes a pretty expensive starting battery. Unless you routinely leave the lights on and run the battery down, a regular cranking battery is all that's needed. With the Duralast Gold, and its warranty, it becomes the best bang for the buck. If you have a lot of accessories, like a beefed up 50 Watt stereo system or something, an AGM battery would be a better choice. Otherwise, let the vehicle's battery handle vehicle operations, and use a house bank (or a single aux battery) for everything else.

One other thing I'll add, though, with the Qualcomm connected to the vehicle's battery, getting an AGM battery wouldn't necessarily be a waste of money. For me, the Duralast Gold warranty more or less cancels out the benefits of a more expensive AGM cranking battery.
 

Rocketman

Veteran Expediter
Seems reasonable to me. At some point, I would like to have qualcom connected to the auxilliary battery as well (if that's possible??). But for the time being it is connected to the starting battery. What is killing my current battery is that 4 position cig. plug adapter. In it, I have power to the gps, sirius/xm, a phone charger and mifi charger. As long as I remember to unplug that thing, it seems to hold for a while. At this point though, it's less than 24 hrs with it plugged in.

The Autozone website wasnt showing me any prices on the Platinum battery that Moot mentioned until I changed the store location to Taylor, Mi. Then it gave me a price of $145 (best I remember). The Gold battery is $105-$120 depending on style. Sooo....the 8 year warranty is definitely impressive, but I'm thinking I may get the Platinum. WHY???? You say?.... well....:)....I've never had an AGM battery before. I think I might try it out.

How's that for logic and reason? :D
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Seems perfectly logical and reasonable to me. AGM batteries are a little more forgiving with abuse. You can still kill them dead, it just takes a little more effort.

The QC is normally connected to a keyed circuit in the vehicle, meaning it knows when the ignition key is on or off. When the ignition is off, the QC has a profile that puts it to sleep, and periodically wakes it up to check for messages, and then goes back to sleep. In this mode it draws very little amps from the battery over a 24 hour period. Certainly nowhere near enough to draw down a healthy battery.

When the ignition is on, the QC draws full power, between 3 and 5 amp hours depending on the model.

If you connect the QC to an aux battery, it'll think the ignition is always on. Even a 3 amp draw over 24 hours will just suck the life out of a 100 AH battery. So if you do that, you'll want to have the profile of the QC changed so that it will go to sleep every so often (which can be problematic with basic tracking of freight when it goes to sleep while you're loaded).

I have a 4-outlet adapter plugged into my 12-volt vehicle outlet, as well. The GPS, SiriusXM, phone charger, and Bluetooth headset charger. When the ignition is off, I also turn off the Garmin and the XM radio. I sometimes charge the headset while parked, as it draws a small amount of milliamps for charging. Likewise, the phone charger being plugged in and not charging the phone draws almost nothing, just enough power to keep the LED lit. If I need to charge the phone while parked, I use a wall charger via the inverter. I could run wires connecting the 4-outlet adapter to the house bank, but I haven't ever gotten around to it, since it's not been a problem.
 

purgoose10

Veteran Expediter
Seems reasonable to me. At some point, I would like to have qualcom connected to the auxilliary battery as well (if that's possible??). But for the time being it is connected to the starting battery. What is killing my current battery is that 4 position cig. plug adapter. In it, I have power to the gps, sirius/xm, a phone charger and mifi charger. As long as I remember to unplug that thing, it seems to hold for a while. At this point though, it's less than 24 hrs with it plugged in.

The Autozone website wasnt showing me any prices on the Platinum battery that Moot mentioned until I changed the store location to Taylor, Mi. Then it gave me a price of $145 (best I remember). The Gold battery is $105-$120 depending on style. Sooo....the 8 year warranty is definitely impressive, but I'm thinking I may get the Platinum. WHY???? You say?.... well....:)....I've never had an AGM battery before. I think I might try it out.

How's that for logic and reason? :D

I wouldn't buy anything from Auto Zone, especially anything electrical. Yes you can get free check ups and stuff but things like Alternators, Starters are bid out for rebuilding. There was a piece done about it in the news awhile back that investigated this. The companies doing the rebuilding recieve the parts they test them and if it only needs one small part that all it gets, so your only getting a partially rebuilt item. I always get new parts, nothing rebuilt. I would rather pay a little more and not worry about it down the road. Back when Brakes at Napa had lifetime warranties I got 5 sets free from the parts house. They didn't like it much but couldn't do anything about it.
As far as batteries I've always used Deka Marine deep cycle battery's. Cost a little more but they've never let me down.
 

Rocketman

Veteran Expediter
Sounds like the Qc will stay as it is then. Never considered that exact reason, but thought there might be a reason to have it wired to the ignition. So, no problem...and at least now I have some justification for an AGM :)

The Sirius/xm and the gps have never been a problem while on the road...to this point. I have always had the van running again soon enough that the battery never had a problem. A couple of times though, I've forgotten to unplug them when I come home. The battery used to be able to handle it for a couple of days, but now 24 hrs tops. While I was working on finishing out the van last month, there were several times that I had the interior lights on too long, or the radio on and sometimes all of them on without the engine running. I've had to boost it at least 6 or 8 times. Yep, I've killed it dead.

Now that I have a generator and the main engine will likely being turned off for longer periods of time, I'll have to be more careful even out on the road. The AGM will give me some help, but I'll get the Sirius/xm and gps wired to the auxillary battery asap and that should get me in pretty good shape.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I don't have a 50 watt amp wired to my stereo but my QC is connected to the ignition switch and draws power from the starting battery. When parked at home, in my garage, I can hear the QC antenna searching for a satellite. It will search for some time, so that's a power draw. I also have a back-lit clock/calendar thing in the cab that is always on plus a couple three power cord chargers with the annoying pilot lights that remain plugged in and on. I always have some power draw. On occasion I have gone to bed with the ignition on. I have yet to have any starting problems with my Diehard Platinum. I don't know if the deep cycle capabilities of an AGM battery make any difference, but I really do like the top posts!
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The deep cycle capabilities of AGM batteries absolutely make the difference. With a standard cranking battery, the lead plates are very thin, which is what you want for lot of cranking amps. It allows for a whole lot of amps to be output in one whack. But those thin plates are also particularly bad for continuous draws, even low amp draws. A one amp draw can run a cranking battery down overnight to the point where it won't start, as will happen if you leave a dome light on, or certainly the headlights (55w bulb, in a 12V car, bulb draws 4.6Amps, times 2). Those thin plates don't allow for long term storage of usable amps like thicker plates of an AGM battery will, because of the high internal resistance of cranking batteries.

With a AGM battery (or any battery with thicker plates), you can have long low amps draws and still have plenty of usable amps for cranking. An AGM battery will not have the same cranking amps as a cranking battery of the same size, but that doesn't matter very often. You'll see a battery with 800 CCA, but the reality is that the cranking amps are determined by the starter. If you have a 400 amp starter, that's all the amps you'll need to start the vehicle (most starters are between 200 and 500 amps, but I can't speak to the starters of big trucks). But as important as amps are, it's the voltage to deliver the amps that's important, because it's the pressure of the voltage that pushes the amps around. As long as the battery is above 12.2 volts, it'll usually start the vehicle. If below that, it's iffy. But I've seen one as low as 11.8 volts start a vehicle.

The amount of power your starter motor pushes out is a function of the voltage and the current rushing through it (P = VI). That being said, the current flowing through the motor is a function of the resistance along the conducting path (Ohm's law, I = V/R). Your battery's voltage is always going to be around 12.5-volts, give or take, and the starter motor's resistance is just about 0.12 Ω (for a small to medium car or light truck). Thus, if we assume negligible resistance in the starter motor leads (painfully false assumption, but I'm trying to keep it simple), the current going through your motor is I = 12.5 V / (0.12 Ω + R_batt) where R_batt is the internal resistance of the battery. A more expensive battery (higher quality) generally means smaller internal resistance, a smaller internal resistance translates directly into higher current, and a higher current translates into a faster cranking speed.

AGM batteries have extremely low internal resistance. It's what enables them to recharge significantly faster, as very little voltage or current is lost to heat, and it's what enables them to deep cycle efficiently, and handle the low amps draws of forgotten headlights.

In modern cars, light trucks and vans, the role of the starter motor is to turn the engine over twice, so that the ECU can sync and then start pumping gas and igniting at the right time. A typical cranking speed for a passenger car would be around 350 rpm (in a Sprinter it's 400), so that means, in a modern car, your battery spends about half a second working each time you start it up, and then proceeds to do practically nothing for the rest of the trip.

During cranking, you need to power a plethora of other electrical components: engine sensors, the ECU, spark plugs, fuel injectors, fuel pumps... If these components don't get enough power because the starter motor is too much of a drain on power, then your car is simply never going to start, or it'll behave very erratically during cranking. Naturally, if you have less internal resistance at the battery, like with an AGM, you have less power losses, particularly when it comes to parasitic loads, and thus you have more available power.

To sum it up, my long-time mantra is, never skimp on tires or batteries.

If your vehicle is older, you'll have more problems starting it, so buy a really good battery.

In extreme cold, the engine will be harder to start, thus requiring more cranking time from the battery. Extreme cold also reduces the amount of cranking amps, so a low resistance battery like an AGM will perform better in colder temperatures. But a healthy regular battery will also perform quite well. You don't really need anymore more robust than an OEM battery, even in cold.

If your vehicle won't start, especially when it's cold, the cold has uncovered a problem, either with the battery that has gone bad or is about it, or some mechanical or electrical problem that needs to be addressed. It's not a bad idea to replace the wires going to the starter with a heavier gauge, which reduces resistance.

Generally speaking, more CA and CCA is better, but you should not need more than the OEM battery specs supplies. More than the OEM, is insurance. I have a direct replacement that has the same CA and CCA as the OEM battery in mine.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Did I mention the fact that I like having both side and top posts?
 
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