Best motor for c/v for expediting?
- Thread starter sluggo
- Start date
I've got the 4.8l in my 06 Express. It gets 18 mpg at 60-65 mph. Just over 260k on it and the motor hasn't been touched other than routine maintenance.
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
I'm running an old 6.5 chevy Express Diesel. Getting 24 on the hwy empty 21 loaded normally.
Just wondering about your 4.8 does it have enough power? Have you ever run the mountains loaded with it? Just curious.
Just wondering about your 4.8 does it have enough power? Have you ever run the mountains loaded with it? Just curious.
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
05 GMC extended 3500 will carry 3000 lbs from time to time...365,469 miles as of ...right now... 4.8 V8...nothing but a waterpump, 2 alternators and regular maintainance..Ams Oil synthetic oil and their filter, change the filter at 10,000 miles oil at 20,000 ....17-17.5 mpg....
I have a Sprinter, 2.7 liter, 154 horsepower behemoth. GGGRRRRRR!!!!!
It gets me up and down the mountains fully loaded with no problems. How much power do you think you need to haul freight in a van? Unless you're towing a 10,000 pound boat or something, what kind of motor and how much horsepower your cargo van has is way down on the list of important stuff with regard to expediting. More powerful motors in vehicles aren't for hauling the vehicle's GVWR, it's for the GVCWR when towing something. There are More important is, regardless of the motor, keep it maintained so you don't have to worry about it.
It gets me up and down the mountains fully loaded with no problems. How much power do you think you need to haul freight in a van? Unless you're towing a 10,000 pound boat or something, what kind of motor and how much horsepower your cargo van has is way down on the list of important stuff with regard to expediting. More powerful motors in vehicles aren't for hauling the vehicle's GVWR, it's for the GVCWR when towing something. There are More important is, regardless of the motor, keep it maintained so you don't have to worry about it.
I don't run through mountains much but through the hills of Kentucky and Tennessee with a load on it's fine. I'd like to try a duramax on my next one but the difference in diesel vs gas price is irritating.
I think it depends on how long you stay out? if you want to maximize your profits you should consider the Sprinter.There's alot of guys on this site that will give you good info on them and seam to be happy with them in general.I go home or head that way after most del,some my profit takes a hit.However i live in a great freight area so i can get out in the worest of times and therefore don't live in my van.If i did i'd,look at the Armadillo or maybe dare i say a gas Sprinter? I am real down on Diesel vans right now so i don't want my bias to sway you.There not for me right now,as i think about if that Sprinter has gas engine it may be MB so i wouldn't go there.I've had 2 5.4's and a GM 6.0 gas that i could get 19 mpg with at 62 mpg empty, tires at 70 psi,light wind.I've had 2 7.3,6.0 Diesels,The 7.3's are great both over 600,000.My 6.0 got totaled by one or my drivers at 200,000 or so and my first 5.4 got me 480,000 still ran good my current 5.4 has 420,000 and doing well.
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
I've been out of touch for a few days.
I don't have anything against gas engines, I've just been a diesel guy all my life. I just like to mess with them and tweek them.
Over the Christmas Holidays converting to electric fans. I have also hyper grounded the engine, which has raised my fuel mileage and hp.
I will be upgrading to a new truck this summer and I'm still out on which van I want. Chevy has gotten about as high as a Sprinter, but the Chevy will carry a heavier payload, but then again the Sprinter has more room. I kind of like the idea of standing straight up too.
I don't have anything against gas engines, I've just been a diesel guy all my life. I just like to mess with them and tweek them.
Over the Christmas Holidays converting to electric fans. I have also hyper grounded the engine, which has raised my fuel mileage and hp.
I will be upgrading to a new truck this summer and I'm still out on which van I want. Chevy has gotten about as high as a Sprinter, but the Chevy will carry a heavier payload, but then again the Sprinter has more room. I kind of like the idea of standing straight up too.
I kinda like that the Duramax is turned back to 250hp in the vans. Still plenty of torque and I would think that the mild tuning would lend itself well to long life?
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greg334
Veteran Expediter
Hyper grounding?
OK, what's that?
Actually the GM will carry less than the Sprinter 3500 with a 9990 GVW.
I wouldn't buy a new GM product, even with my discount, it is something I just can't bring myself to do.
bikerpaul
Expert Expediter
I found this info on hyper grounding:
Hyper Ground System
by CAE Community Writer , Feb 24, 2009 17 Likes Received 17 53 Followers 53 3 Featured Pics 3
+ Follow |
email
Let me just start by saying that this may not be a typical topic for CA&E; that is, horsepower. However, we are all essentially electron junkies and the product reviewed on these pages does flow them (electrons) from point A to B. But wait, this product might even be helpful to your audio system, so maybe I am not that far off. What is this product I am talking about? It's the Hyper Ground System, of course.
The Hyper Ground System, manufactured by Sun Automobile in Japan, consists of a series of large-gauge grounding wires for under the hood of your vehicle. Sun Automotive is a manufacturer of high quality accessories for Japanese-built cars, including OEM parts for Mitsubishi, Nissan and Toyota. In fact, these three manufacturers offer the Hyper Ground System as a factory option that can be bought and installed right at the dealership (in Japan). I guess you could consider this a JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) product.
Ground wires? Aren't those the ones that go from the car's chassis to the negative terminal on your amp? What are they doing under the hood? Well, here's the deal: Newer cars all use computers, OBDII or otherwise, that control virtually every aspect of the engine and driveline performance through various electronic engine components, all to keep the car running at its optimum performance. These components commonly use a variable ground (negative) signal connected to the computer; thus the problem. Engines and transmissions are typically grounded to the alternator and battery in one location, mainly the motor block. Usually there is a great distance between this grounding point and the various electrical components, not to mention that these components are seldom mounted to the block itself. This creates variations in the voltage at these multiple mechanisms. As a sensor sends information to the computer, the computer in return sends out a signal to make the necessary adjustment(s) to other components. However, if there is a slight variation in the voltage, the computer will not compensate correctly, causing a loss in horsepower. And this is where the Hyper Ground System comes in. It provides a direct ground path from battery negative to body, chassis and engine components, making for an extreme improvement in electrical circulation. According to Sun Automobile, there are multiple benefits to using this system: horsepower and torque gains; better gas mileage; and quicker engine starts. The company also claims that it can reduce audio noise.
Like myself, I am sure many of you are thinking that you can make these cables using some 4awg cables and a few ring terminals, right? Sun Automobile claims its high quality wires are constructed of near pure copper, 99.99% to be exact, and 1477 strands per cable to optimize the current flow. Compared to factory grounds, this system offers 10 times less impedance, providing improved conduction to prevent electrical losses. It is in this purity of the wire that the Hyper Ground System has benefits over the typical car audio power cable.
While all this hoopla sounds good on paper, I needed to see proof that five wires can do what Sun Automotive claims. For this I recruited the Technical Editor of Import Tuner, Gary Castillo, to assist us in using XS Engineering's dyno. Of course we needed a car to perform the tests on, so I offered up my Volvo 850R wagon.
The first test we performed was a baseline (no modifications) dyno run. This was performed in third gear, which created some problems for us. Unfortunately, the 850R is an automatic and will not hold the transmission in a single gear other than first (first gear dyno tests are not very accurate). Therefore, the results of the test were recorded above 5000 rpm, shortly after the vehicle shifted from second to third. Respectably, the stock Volvo kicked out 193.9 horsepower at the wheels at just over 5000 rpm.
Using simple hand tools, we installed the Hyper Ground System. The cables attached to the ground points in a series or in a daisy chain configuration, with one cable directly attached to the next. Two cables were attached to the battery terminal, with one bolting to the strut tower and the other to the first ground point. From there, the Hyper Ground cables were attached to the intake manifold, transmission/motor block, head, and the chassis of the computer. Generally, this last connection is supposed to go to the opposing strut tower but after the various mounting positions we tried, attaching this to the computer chassis yielded the best results.
Again, we loaded the Volvo back onto the dyno. As before, we started recording the results above 5000 rpm in third gear. The results were astounding, with a gain of nine for a total of 202.9 horsepower at the wheels. Not only did the max horsepower increase, it made an additional 15.9 hp over stock at 5800 rpm, broadening the power band (see graph). Our torque band also increased, providing up to 14.1 more pounds of twist above 5300 rpm.
The dyno tests are always nice to see but driving the vehicle is where the real enjoyment lies. The response of the car feels much smoother, with an endless pull when the throttle is mashed to the floor.
As far as high performance products go, the Hyper Ground System is one of the best values on the market. While horsepower gains will vary per the vehicle applied one can't go wrong with spending from $115 to $205 for a performance item that is so easy to install.
Hyper Ground System Vehicle: 1996 Volvo 850R
RPM Hp Before Hp After Gain Torque Before Torque After Gain
5200 189.3 192.2 2.9 191.2 193.0 0.8
5300 188.9 194.9 6.0 187.1 192.1 5.0
5400 189.9 196.8 6.9 184.7 191.4 6.7
5500 191.8 199.7 7.9 183.0 190.6 7.6
5600 191.2 201.0 9.8 179.2 188.5 9.3
5700 187.7 202.1 14.4 172.9 186.2 13.7
5800 183.6 199.5 15.9 166.2 180.6 14.1
5900 176.6 190.1 13.5 157.2 169.2 12.0
6000 168.1 181.2 13.1 147.1 158.5 11.4
6100 162.0 170.3 8.3 139.5 146.6 7.1
Hyper Ground System
by CAE Community Writer , Feb 24, 2009 17 Likes Received 17 53 Followers 53 3 Featured Pics 3
+ Follow |
Let me just start by saying that this may not be a typical topic for CA&E; that is, horsepower. However, we are all essentially electron junkies and the product reviewed on these pages does flow them (electrons) from point A to B. But wait, this product might even be helpful to your audio system, so maybe I am not that far off. What is this product I am talking about? It's the Hyper Ground System, of course.
The Hyper Ground System, manufactured by Sun Automobile in Japan, consists of a series of large-gauge grounding wires for under the hood of your vehicle. Sun Automotive is a manufacturer of high quality accessories for Japanese-built cars, including OEM parts for Mitsubishi, Nissan and Toyota. In fact, these three manufacturers offer the Hyper Ground System as a factory option that can be bought and installed right at the dealership (in Japan). I guess you could consider this a JDM (Japanese Domestic Market) product.
Ground wires? Aren't those the ones that go from the car's chassis to the negative terminal on your amp? What are they doing under the hood? Well, here's the deal: Newer cars all use computers, OBDII or otherwise, that control virtually every aspect of the engine and driveline performance through various electronic engine components, all to keep the car running at its optimum performance. These components commonly use a variable ground (negative) signal connected to the computer; thus the problem. Engines and transmissions are typically grounded to the alternator and battery in one location, mainly the motor block. Usually there is a great distance between this grounding point and the various electrical components, not to mention that these components are seldom mounted to the block itself. This creates variations in the voltage at these multiple mechanisms. As a sensor sends information to the computer, the computer in return sends out a signal to make the necessary adjustment(s) to other components. However, if there is a slight variation in the voltage, the computer will not compensate correctly, causing a loss in horsepower. And this is where the Hyper Ground System comes in. It provides a direct ground path from battery negative to body, chassis and engine components, making for an extreme improvement in electrical circulation. According to Sun Automobile, there are multiple benefits to using this system: horsepower and torque gains; better gas mileage; and quicker engine starts. The company also claims that it can reduce audio noise.
Like myself, I am sure many of you are thinking that you can make these cables using some 4awg cables and a few ring terminals, right? Sun Automobile claims its high quality wires are constructed of near pure copper, 99.99% to be exact, and 1477 strands per cable to optimize the current flow. Compared to factory grounds, this system offers 10 times less impedance, providing improved conduction to prevent electrical losses. It is in this purity of the wire that the Hyper Ground System has benefits over the typical car audio power cable.
While all this hoopla sounds good on paper, I needed to see proof that five wires can do what Sun Automotive claims. For this I recruited the Technical Editor of Import Tuner, Gary Castillo, to assist us in using XS Engineering's dyno. Of course we needed a car to perform the tests on, so I offered up my Volvo 850R wagon.
The first test we performed was a baseline (no modifications) dyno run. This was performed in third gear, which created some problems for us. Unfortunately, the 850R is an automatic and will not hold the transmission in a single gear other than first (first gear dyno tests are not very accurate). Therefore, the results of the test were recorded above 5000 rpm, shortly after the vehicle shifted from second to third. Respectably, the stock Volvo kicked out 193.9 horsepower at the wheels at just over 5000 rpm.
Using simple hand tools, we installed the Hyper Ground System. The cables attached to the ground points in a series or in a daisy chain configuration, with one cable directly attached to the next. Two cables were attached to the battery terminal, with one bolting to the strut tower and the other to the first ground point. From there, the Hyper Ground cables were attached to the intake manifold, transmission/motor block, head, and the chassis of the computer. Generally, this last connection is supposed to go to the opposing strut tower but after the various mounting positions we tried, attaching this to the computer chassis yielded the best results.
Again, we loaded the Volvo back onto the dyno. As before, we started recording the results above 5000 rpm in third gear. The results were astounding, with a gain of nine for a total of 202.9 horsepower at the wheels. Not only did the max horsepower increase, it made an additional 15.9 hp over stock at 5800 rpm, broadening the power band (see graph). Our torque band also increased, providing up to 14.1 more pounds of twist above 5300 rpm.
The dyno tests are always nice to see but driving the vehicle is where the real enjoyment lies. The response of the car feels much smoother, with an endless pull when the throttle is mashed to the floor.
As far as high performance products go, the Hyper Ground System is one of the best values on the market. While horsepower gains will vary per the vehicle applied one can't go wrong with spending from $115 to $205 for a performance item that is so easy to install.
Hyper Ground System Vehicle: 1996 Volvo 850R
RPM Hp Before Hp After Gain Torque Before Torque After Gain
5200 189.3 192.2 2.9 191.2 193.0 0.8
5300 188.9 194.9 6.0 187.1 192.1 5.0
5400 189.9 196.8 6.9 184.7 191.4 6.7
5500 191.8 199.7 7.9 183.0 190.6 7.6
5600 191.2 201.0 9.8 179.2 188.5 9.3
5700 187.7 202.1 14.4 172.9 186.2 13.7
5800 183.6 199.5 15.9 166.2 180.6 14.1
5900 176.6 190.1 13.5 157.2 169.2 12.0
6000 168.1 181.2 13.1 147.1 158.5 11.4
6100 162.0 170.3 8.3 139.5 146.6 7.1
Those sound like the automotive equivalent of the bracelets that golfers wear.
Posted with my iPhone EO Forum App
Posted with my iPhone EO Forum App
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Thanks for that explanation, the thing I wonder about is how it applies to the 6.5 and how would it improve anything because it is a metered fueled engine with the turbo the only other thing that is controlled by the ECM. If it was a CR system, I may see something but the only thing I can see is an improvement with the charging system.
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
Getting back.
I hyper ground vehicles of all sizes in my spare time. It raises hp, engine runs cooler and without the stress.
I do not use Sun products I make my own cables. I use 2/0 main line battery to frame and 1ga from there.
You can't believe the difference in torque and performance especially when pulling a load.
If done correctly it will make you smile and wonder why everyone doesn't do it. Why don't they? They won't open up their mind and believe it. Every Expediter should do it or have it done.
I hyper ground vehicles of all sizes in my spare time. It raises hp, engine runs cooler and without the stress.
I do not use Sun products I make my own cables. I use 2/0 main line battery to frame and 1ga from there.
You can't believe the difference in torque and performance especially when pulling a load.
If done correctly it will make you smile and wonder why everyone doesn't do it. Why don't they? They won't open up their mind and believe it. Every Expediter should do it or have it done.
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
Well the answer to the 6.5 engine. Hyper grounding main purpose is to clear up ECU signals and enhance them. Most computer problems in vehicles, gas or diesel is the path of resistance that the computer encounters. Like most cargo Vans just the electric fuel pump being grounded to the frame actually sends a false signal to the engines control unit. Other components like the flywheel, crankshaft, harmonic balance r are creating static electricity through perpetual motions. Static is created by friction. When hyper grounding correctly the static charge is removed from all the engine components and lets the ECU send clearer signals and letting the engine, transmission run freely without interference. In exchange more bottom end torque and better fuel mileage.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
OK if you say so, and do agree that there are issues with grounds in vehicles but with the 6.5 I am thinking that it is more or less the injector driver (6.5 is not a common rail engine) that is being enhanced by an improvement of the ground to the engine while the idea that static electricity has a mitigating factor involved with sensor readings to the ECM doesn't make much sense when the signal conditioning that takes place within that silver box removes a lot of stuff from the signal.
Most gas vans have the fuel pump in the tank, the 6.5 and I think the 7.3/6.0 have the lift pump mounted on the frame rails. There is no feedback with the 6.5 pump that I can find to the ECM, it is a switched power source from the ECM.
I wonder if GM knows about this, I would think that they would have already done the research on it.
Most gas vans have the fuel pump in the tank, the 6.5 and I think the 7.3/6.0 have the lift pump mounted on the frame rails. There is no feedback with the 6.5 pump that I can find to the ECM, it is a switched power source from the ECM.
I wonder if GM knows about this, I would think that they would have already done the research on it.
14Wheeler
Seasoned Expediter
Having spent over 2 years working in Japan, I do remember hearing of this done to passenger cars there. One of the supply managers at CAT was a big car audio nut and I do know he swore it made his car sound quality, better. Weird that OEM isn't involved in the technology.
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
Okay. I really don't know how to explain the pump on the 6.5. I run a 6.5 in my CV. The grounding effect from all the other components back to the ECU are cleared up. It makes the pumps job easier. It doesn't change anything in the pumps control unit, it just clears the signal making it run smoother. I also takes the lag time out of a diesel. When you hit the throttle you don't have the slow response time that diesels have. Less down shifting, a lot of good things that help. I have done it to 600hp Cats and some 515 hp Detroit's and all the operators say the engines respond faster and smoother.
Hope that helped.
Hope that helped.
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
Tell you what, it's Christmas and I'll do this. If Lawrence will go along with this, I will do any cargo van free if they will keep their fuel numbers and publish the results. That way it can be an independent test. Must have a Moderator involved as well, someone to make the rules etc.
It can be done with any CV other than a Sprinter. Why? I've never done a Sprinter. Chevy, Ford whatever, any engine. All we would have to do is put it together somehow. Kind of like a shop test or something.
I'll pay for the cable's and supplies.
What do you think? I would say pick some one who's been expediting in a CV for a few years and knows the system.
It can be done with any CV other than a Sprinter. Why? I've never done a Sprinter. Chevy, Ford whatever, any engine. All we would have to do is put it together somehow. Kind of like a shop test or something.
I'll pay for the cable's and supplies.
What do you think? I would say pick some one who's been expediting in a CV for a few years and knows the system.
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
Another Tidbit of news. Chrysler found that they were having problems with rear seals burning out of their transmissions. They found it to be static electricity.
Does GM know. Well don't know that but the correct way to do this cannot be done on an assembly line. You have to know what to look for. Yes there are basics but there are ways to help engines, batteries, alternators etc.
Example. Electric fuel pumps on GM trucks, Vans etc. are grounded straight to the frame rail. Under a load they carry 20amps of current. Where do you think that energy goes?
Does GM know. Well don't know that but the correct way to do this cannot be done on an assembly line. You have to know what to look for. Yes there are basics but there are ways to help engines, batteries, alternators etc.
Example. Electric fuel pumps on GM trucks, Vans etc. are grounded straight to the frame rail. Under a load they carry 20amps of current. Where do you think that energy goes?