Best company to sign on with

Zfox141

Rookie Expediter
Hello I am new to the expedited world as a fleet owner. I am in the process of purchasing a sprinter van, just waiting on some funds to free up. What company in your opinion is the best to sign on with? My boss for my 9-5 Jon has a 08 sprinter signed on with Panther and is having good luck with them. I welcome all feedback.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Let's see: a new to expediting fleet owner waiting for funds to buy a Sprinter - what could go wrong?
Sorrry, Zfox, you don't even know what you don't know yet - beginning with the meaning of 'fleet owner'. Unless that Sprinter you're waiting to buy has some company: one van does not a fleet make. I'd advise you to save the funds while you do some research [about carriers, fleet owners, owner/operators, contracts, percentage vs flat rate, etc] so you will have some idea of which carrier you would have the best chance of making money with and for.
It's not a nice reply, but it's not a nice business, and you need to know what you're doing, because it's YOUR business that fails if you don't.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
If you've done any research, those who would know best, present $printer owners, say it is NOT an entry level vehicle.
Welcome to EO. You will get some brutally honest answers.
 

Zfox141

Rookie Expediter
Thanks guys... I know its a tough biz. This will be my 3rd year in it. Currently I work for an agency that represents Roadrunner and Globaltranz so I understand the brokerage side. I have experience dispatching for a Jax based trucking company and also Spectrum Logistics where I matched up backhauls for seastar containers. It's definitely a brutal business.

I am waiting until I have a plan in place before making the purchase. No need to have a van sitting if it's not making money.
 

Zfox141

Rookie Expediter
Currently my bosses sprinter is stuck in Dallas at number 5 on the panther board so I am knowledgable of the down time that these guys will have.

Just curious, why do you say that a sprinter is not a good entry level vehicle? I am wanting to go that route as the PM, fuel, etc is less than going the Tractor route.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
Search past threads. I've read it more than once.
It's not a segment of the business I'm very familiar with.
 

Zfox141

Rookie Expediter
10/4

Do you know anything about being hooked up with different companies and having options as far as loads to take? I only ask because I covered a load with s2 for one of my customers which has a lot of hot shot freight and for ****s and gigs I met the driver at the shipper to make sure everything went smooth. Turns out that it wasn't a s2 driver and it ended up being a eclipse driver who got the the load from a different company. He runs a van with no placards and says he is hooked up with7 different company's. Is this possible and legal? Anytime he comes to Jax I tell him to stop in our office for coffee and to talk and pick his brain.
 

guido4475

Not a Member
10/4

Do you know anything about being hooked up with different companies and having options as far as loads to take? I only ask because I covered a load with s2 for one of my customers which has a lot of hot shot freight and for ****s and gigs I met the driver at the shipper to make sure everything went smooth. Turns out that it wasn't a s2 driver and it ended up being a eclipse driver who got the the load from a different company. He runs a van with no placards and says he is hooked up with7 different company's. Is this possible and legal? Anytime he comes to Jax I tell him to stop in our office for coffee and to talk and pick his brain.

7 carriers at once.....lmao....I have a friend who does that multi-carrier thing....he sits more than I do! And for a cheap rate....less than I'd ever move for...and the primary insurance he carries is costing him $7,300.00 a year! While mine costs me $660.00 a year for my physical, loaded and unloaded insurance.....And my rate is .40 cpm more than what he runs for....but yet, he claims to be making money.....lol....do the math...so you get a load while leased onto 7 carriers....you have to call the other 6 when this happens, letting them know you have a load.....then you unload, and go through that all over again....tell me, where is the advantage to all of this??? The cheap freight rates? Think of it this way...most of those bottom feeders are bidding on the same load, off of the same load board...usually, the lowest bidder wins, right?...so basically, they just whorred out the driver for the lowest rate.....or the driver did it to himself by leasing onto 7 sub-standard carriers at once, instead of 1 quality top-notch carrier.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Thanks guys... I know its a tough biz. This will be my 3rd year in it.
Arguably the toughest transition for anyone coming into expediting is the truck driver who comes from the general trucking sector. They think with their gobs of experience in trucking that expediting is a piece of cake because they think general trucking and expediting is more or less the same. And they are invariably exactly wrong. Expediting is as different from general trucking as you can get. If you think matching up backhauls for Sea Star containers is brutal, try matching up emergency freight that you don't even know about until half an hour before it needs to be picked up.

I am waiting until I have a plan in place before making the purchase. No need to have a van sitting if it's not making money.
That implies you think you can make money by splitting the revenue in a van. Interesting. More on that in a minute.

Just curious, why do you say that a sprinter is not a good entry level vehicle? I am wanting to go that route as the PM, fuel, etc is less than going the Tractor route.
True enough, the PM and fuel is less than a tractor, considerably, but it's the "etc" part that bites you. Sprinter maintenance and repair, as a percentage of revenue, can be considerably higher than that of a tractor. Replacement parts, especially from a dealer, can be incredibly expensive. Couple that with the lower revenue of a Sprinter, and once you split the revenue between owner and driver, there's very little left over for anything other than maintenance.

Everything you think you know about maintaining a truck, or even a car, is mostly wrong when you apply that knowledge to a Sprinter. Sprinters have special considerations, quirks and idiosyncrasies that have to be learned and accepted, and it's very difficult to do that while you're also learning the special considerations, quirks and idiosyncrasies of expediting, as both expediting and Sprinters will present you with thoroughly unexpected surprises, almost none of which are good.

Most maintenance (for any trucking vehicle) has to be planned for. It's hard to plan for it when you don't yet understand the industry you are working in. And it's even worse when you think you understand it but don't. And maintenance for a Sprinter requires a special commitment to learning the maintenance schedule and procedures and not deviating from it at all, even if you think you know better, because you don't. For example, there is a list of approved fluids (oil, transmission, coolant, etc,) and if you stray from that list even a little bit, you will pay dearly for that ignorance (or arrogance, depending).

Also, just checking the oil and changing it requires a certain amount of analness about it.
Service Repair Tip
Part Number: 05080029AA
Part Description: Sprinter - Engine Oil, Oil Filter and Cap
TSB Number: NONE

When performing an oil change make sure to add the correct quantity of oil, which is 9.5 quarts (with filter replacement, which is required with every oil change). An underfilling, as well as overfilling may harm the engine or create driveability issues. The dipstick is designed to be used only with a "hot" engine and oil that has reached operating temperature (unless it is a cold engine dipstick with a yellow handle, which is available for certain fleets only). Furthermore, please keep in mind that the new oil is still 'cold' after it has been changed even though the engine may be hot. A Sprinter engine having an oil level at the maximum on the dipstick at 70F (oil temperature), will actually be 3/4 quart overfilled! However, an engine filled correctly with oil at the maximum shows, at 70F oil temperature, an oil level only at the midpoint of the dipstick.

For proper measurement the engine needs to stand 5 minutes after running, which allows the oil to flow back from the engine into the oil pan. Furthermore the dipstick needs to be fully seated in the tube for at least two seconds before it is pulled out, since the handle pushes down the air and thereby the oil in the tube temporarily.

Make sure the three o-rings are properly positioned before installing the filter assembly. Pay particular attention to the large upper o-ring, which has to be in the second groove (the widest) under the cap flange.

Most people will put 80,000 miles a year on their cars in five years, but you'll do that every year in expediting. Which means you'll be doing 5 years worth of maintenance every year. You'll be changing oil every couple of months instead of a couple of times a year (oil change service at a dealer can be $450 if they perform the Routine Service). You'll be changing engine air filters every 6 months. Fuel filters every 4 months. You'll be replacing wear parts much quicker than you think. The mentality of learning how to do things things in a timely fashion can be expensive if you mess up. However, with a cargo van like a Ford or a Chevy, they can be quite forgiving when you make such mistakes. A Sprinter is not at all forgiving. It can be brutal. When one thing fails on a Ford you just replace it for $200 and move on. When one thing fails on a Sprinter it can cause 9 other things to fail and instead of $200 you're looking at $2000. A Sprinter is not the ideal vehicle to learn the ropes and make mistakes with. That's why it makes an exceedingly bad entry-level vehicle.

Now back to the revenue. The Rule of Thirds more or less applies across all trucking sectors, where One Third of the gross revenue goes to operating expenses (fuel, oil, tolls, etc., whatever it costs to move the vehicle from A to B), One Third goes to the truck (insurance, maintenance, repair, etc.) and One Third goes to the driver. In expediting the standard split between truck owner and driver is 60/40 with 60 going to whoever pays for fuel, usually the driver. So let's use that as the example. And I'll use a line haul to the truck of $1.00 for simplicity's sake.

On a 60/40 split the driver would get 60 cents. The Rule of Thirds says that 33 cents (of the $1.00) goes for operating expenses. That's mainly for fuel, and the Sprinter uses less fuel than most other vehicles, so the fuel cost to the driver is closer to 20 cents. OK, so that leaves the driver with 60-20=40 cents, which is the same that the owner gets with his 40 percent. 40 cents for each, and 20 cents for fuel. Out of the driver's 40 cents comes tolls, and out of the owner's 40 cents come oil, so it's a little less than 40 cents for both. So, the driver ends up with just about One Third after his operating expenses are gone, plus about 5 cents because of the decent fuel economy of a Sprinter. So, the driver ends up with about 38 percent instead of the Rule of Thirds 33 percent.

One Third (actually closer to One Fourth with a Sprinter) is used up by the operating expenses, so the owner ends up with a little more than One Third, as well, or about the same as the driver at 38 percent.

So now we have the maintenance and repair One Third, which is 33 cents, and with a Sprinter can easily be a little more than that, especially when you get into year 2, 3 and 4 when you start replacing water pumps, radiators, alternators, AC compressors, and the $900 for tires that will be replaced every 18 months, not to mention the new and improved DPF filter with these new Sprinters that needs to be cleaned and/or replaced every friggin' time you turn around. You can figure 35 cents of every paid mile driven that will need to be set aside for maintenance. Out of the owner's 38 cents, that doesn't leave much for the owner's pocket. Oh, and you have to buy the van with something, make payments, etc.

So, splitting the revenue in a van, especially a Sprinter, isn't exactly the cash cow for the owner that it may seem to be at first glance. And when you factor in the cost of the educational hard knocks of making the various and sundry inevitable mistakes with a Sprinter, it's easy to conclude that a Sprinter isn't the ideal entry level vehicle for someone who doesn't really know and understand all of the nuances of both expediting and of maintaining their vehicle.

I strongly encourage you to very carefully consider entering into expediting with a Sprinter, especially one that you won't be driving yourself and will be putting someone behind the wheel with no vested interest in taking care of or learning about it.

As for picking the brain of someone who runs for seven carriers, well, there are very, very few multi-carrier folks who really understand the business. They think they do, I mean they really, really believe that they've got it figured out, but they're actually more out of the loop with regard to how this business works than those leased to a single carrier. Most of them don't even know where freight comes from. They think they're seeing it all, but the reality is they only know what their extremely myopic vision lets them see, and it's a fraction of what's going on.
 
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Zfox141

Rookie Expediter
Thank you for that... That is why i am asking questions :)

You are right, my experience has been in the Intermodal / OTR / import-export sector of transportation so this is definitely a new world. I am watching how my boss does things / and deals things as he is a new owner also. I am learning from him on what issues he has to deal with before i jump out and purchase a vehicle(s).

Truth be known that i have highly considered going the chevy, ford and possibly nissan route. I just need to find out what is the best fit and give's my company the best opportunity to get a return on investment. I do agree the sprinter route comes with its own issues as I have read and heard from professionals in the biz.

The spreadsheets i have worked on have used the same 60/40 model that you speak of. The margins are low in the expedited world but with anything comes a risk. I have funds that I am willing to invest. I want to perfect my biz model before venturing out though.
 

zorry

Veteran Expediter
Very cool Lawrence.
Looked at it briefly. A few things surprised me.
I chuckled at Load 1. Where % pay would be the expected answer, they had something like WELL COMPENSATED % PAY.
Someone's on the ball over there !
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Thank you for that... That is why i am asking questions :)

You are right, my experience has been in the Intermodal / OTR / import-export sector of transportation so this is definitely a new world. I am watching how my boss does things / and deals things as he is a new owner also. I am learning from him on what issues he has to deal with before i jump out and purchase a vehicle(s).

Truth be known that i have highly considered going the chevy, ford and possibly nissan route. I just need to find out what is the best fit and give's my company the best opportunity to get a return on investment. I do agree the sprinter route comes with its own issues as I have read and heard from professionals in the biz.

The spreadsheets i have worked on have used the same 60/40 model that you speak of. The margins are low in the expedited world but with anything comes a risk. I have funds that I am willing to invest. I want to perfect my biz model before venturing out though.

Before venturing out, I would go back and read Turtle's post again. Remember that vanning in a saturated and turbulent economy can be risky. Don't put out there what you can't afford to lose.
Keep in mind, you can make money in Vegas as well. :cool:
 

jt1980a

Active Expediter
Wouldn't even attempt that on my phone! Awesome advice and comparisons. However (and there is always a "however"), I would have to question the financial #'s vs the class 8 trucks all the way down to the sprinters. I think your way low on the operating cost on units larger than the sprinters. Ex: tandem axle straight truck with 10 tires @ $425 each -- $4250 in tires every 18 month's. Ever do a water pump on a $$Cat or Cummins$$? I personally believ there are much more expenses on larger trucks vs sprinters. Although the sprinter wint go for 1,00,00 miles (probably). But that's why they are a fraction of the price. Maybe I'm wrong, that's just my take, but you make tons of good points turtle!
 

optimumpri

Rookie Expediter
Hey have you found what to do or, buy yet? Im kinda in the same position as you, the difference is that i have no experience at all. I do have capital to start though but, right now ive desided to just do lots of reading here. I dont know what vehicle to start with. Truck or van? I live in nyc.
 

optimumpri

Rookie Expediter
Hi turtle. So, what would you recomend a person thats willing to drive his on truck or van? I dont know what to buy.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
It's recommend either a Ford E-350 Cargo van, or an E-350 based box truck. I'd recommend used to start out with, to see if this is what you want to do, and to use as a vehicle to figure out what you want and need insofar as outfitting it. Then, move to one of the new Dodge, Sprinter or Ford vans, depending on how they are performing a year or two from now.
 

KickStarter6

Veteran Expediter
My dad lease a sprinter to tri state and I know I seem to sit a lot more than im moving no matter where im at unless Im in Michigan which I never seem to be able to make it too. He about to buy another van/sprinter the week after next and put another driver on so maybe I wrong lol
 

BillChaffey

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Navy
Kickstarter,
your father has one van sitting and he's purchasing another? It might be time for your father to start reading Expediters on Line.
 
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