Baltimore Rioting, Looting OK According to Mayor

muttly

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Perhaps you could explain how preventing schoolkids from boarding their buses to go home, and detaining them in an area where trouble is anticipated is "protecting life and property" - but I doubt it.
I doubt it will sink in, but if the police received a threat that there was going to be violence, it is their duty as sworn officers to do what is necessary to prevent violence on person and property. Seriously, you think detaining kids due to a credible threat is somehow provoking them to commit violence and excuses their behavior of physical violence? Whatever actions the police took , it was to protect the kids, the property in their path, and for the officers themselves.
 

Turtle

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Where, exactly, was this violence supposed to occur, and where, exactly, did the police detain these school children?
 

muttly

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If that's true, then the police directly caused the rioting by their interference. So your use of "entirely" isn't merely playing fast and loose, but rather is entirely incorrect.
Nope. They didn't cause the riot. They received a credible threat of violence and is their duty to protect.
They did nothing to cause the riot. Rioters decided to riot all by themselves.
 

Turtle

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Well, which is it? Did they protect, or did they interfere?

And the credible threat turned out to be not credible. Kinda like the illegal switchblade the dead guy was arrested for.
 

muttly

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It doesn't matter if they interfered or protected or both. Rioters totally responsible for rioting.
Bricks and concrete were in their hands very quickly after school. They were going to riot that day regardless if some think the police made them do it.
#stoptheexcuses
 

Turtle

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It doesn't matter if they interfered or protected or both. Rioters totally responsible for rioting.
Bricks and concrete were in their hands very quickly after school. They were going to riot that day regardless if some think the police made them do it.
#stoptheexcuses
Since you know they are going to riot that day regardless, I'll ask you again, why do you think they were rioting? What were the factors that led to it? People don't riot for no reason.
#Ihaven'tmadeanyexcuses

Also, in say, the last 50 years, how many police officers have been killed during a riot by a brick or similar object (including bottles)?

Also, why is it that police use tear gas and rubber bullets on rioters, instead of just shooting those who throw things and otherwise assault police officers during a riot?
 
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skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
I saw a person of color running wildly across a parking lot............he was chasing his Wal Mart cart being blown away by the wind..........does that count..........lol.
 

muttly

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This is true, but none the less, his report was a blatent lie.
That's a stretch.
It was an inaccurate account by him, but it wasn't a blatant lie. He was honestly reporting on what he personally thought he witnessed live. His camera crew also witnessed the same thing, as did many witnesses.
The officer gave pursuit with the suspect and drew his gun . One shot is fired and the suspect is on the ground claiming he is hurt.
But the shot was actually the suspect's gun hitting the ground and GOING OFF BY ITSELF hitting no one. (Guns hitting the ground and going off by themselves is extremely rare.)
I mean, how likely is that scenario?
Honest mistake.
#FoxNews29minuntilcorrection.
#NBCNews6,311,385,19untilcorrection.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Since you know they are going to riot that day regardless, I'll ask you again, why do you think they were rioting? What were the factors that led to it? People don't riot for no reason.
#Ihaven'tmadeanyexcuses

Also, in say, the last 50 years, how many police officers have been killed during a riot by a brick or similar object (including bottles)?

Also, why is it that police use tear gas and rubber bullets on rioters, instead of just shooting those who throw things and otherwise assault police officers during a riot?
Many rioted because they saw the opportunity to riot. When their mayor says we give rioters space to destroy, it signals to many of them the opportunity to do just that.
The officers didn't have anything to do as to why they rioted.
Some chose to riot merely by joining the crowd and engaged in rioting, looting, etc. For the ones who engaged in concrete tossing at officers after school, that looked like an organized, orchestrated effort by a large contingent. Again, they appeared to have trash cans full of bricks readily available in the early afternoon, so the officers' perceived threat of mayhem was warranted.
Some of the rioting has to do with the socioeconomic issues, mostly due to failed liberal policies in Baltimore.
(More school choice with charter schools,and vouchers is needed for failed schools. Lack of jobs due to high taxation in those areas,a bad immigration policy which has gone on for decades, and excacerbated under Obama, impacting those with the lowest income. Plus bad economic policies in general from this administration having a detrimental impact on the economy.)
Some choose to riot because it is part of their culture. Single family homes, drugs, etc. breeds disregard for authority and law and order.
Many in those situations decided not to riot, so it is an individual choice.

I don't know how many officers have been killed by bricks. It is irrelevant .
Obviously a brick is dangerous enough to cause serious injury or death.

They use tear gas and rubber bullets so as to effectively control and disperse rioters, so they don't have to shoot them with real bullets when they threaten officers. Probably why they have effective riot gear to shield them, except when they all aren't wearing it and get seriously injured like at least 15 of them did. I've never said not to use rubber bullets or tear gas.
 

Turtle

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Many rioted because they saw the opportunity to riot. When their mayor says we give rioters space to destroy, it signals to many of them the opportunity to do just that.
Well, the mayor never said that. She said "we gave" not "we give." Her statement was past tense, after the fact, and therefore could not have been a signal to the rioters. Since you're all about context and full quotes, I offer this link which contains both, knowing full well that after reading it you will come away with whatever you want, anyway.

The officers didn't have anything to do as to why they rioted.
You should probably do some earnest research on that one, as you are incorrect on that.

Some chose to riot merely by joining the crowd and engaged in rioting, looting, etc. For the ones who engaged in concrete tossing at officers after school, that looked like an organized, orchestrated effort by a large contingent. Again, they appeared to have trash cans full of bricks readily available in the early afternoon, so the officers' perceived threat of mayhem was warranted.
Have you seen the pictures and the videos of police officers throwing bricks and rocks at protesters? While Baltimore police Capt. Eric Kowalczyk stated that police would deploy traditional riot-dispersing tools such as "see tear gas, you're gonna see pepper balls," he had no response to a request for comment about the photos and videos of officers throwing projectiles.

Some of the rioting has to do with the socioeconomic issues, mostly due to failed liberal policies in Baltimore.
(More school choice with charter schools,and vouchers is needed for failed schools. Lack of jobs due to high taxation in those areas,a bad immigration policy which has gone on for decades, and excacerbated under Obama, impacting those with the lowest income. Plus bad economic policies in general from this administration having a detrimental impact on the economy.)
Some choose to riot because it is part of their culture. Single family homes, drugs, etc. breeds disregard for authority and law and order.
Smooth that you got the anti-Obama dig in there. Excellent job. That's almost as good as liberals blaming Bush for everything. But everything you describe, including the long debunked "culture" can be found in every major city in the country, yet those cities aren't rioting. There must be more to it than failed liberal policies, Obama, culture, opportunity and peer pressure as to why they rioted.

Percentage of US black households that are singe parent households is about 67% and for whites it's about 34% (interestingly, it's a mere 16% for Asian and Pacific Islanders), but in sheer numbers, there are vastly more white single parent households than there are black. And in both percentage and raw numbers, whites outnumber blacks by a large margin for illegal drug use. So I don't think single family homes and drugs can realistically be pointed at as a cause for rioting, much less something that breeds disregard for authority and law and order. You know that breeds disregard for authority and law and order? History proves that abusive and biased law enforcement does it every time.

I don't know how many officers have been killed by bricks. It is irrelevant .
People always say facts are irrelevant when they don't like them, or they have a feeling the facts they're about to be giving won't support what they already believe. If bricks are so important to this circumstance, even to the point of be categorized as the context of a prosecutor statement, and if they can be called lethal weapons, then bricks must have some sort of lethal history with regard to riots. Except they don't.

Obviously a brick is dangerous enough to cause serious injury or death.
Not to a police officer in full riot gear.

They use tear gas and rubber bullets so as to effectively control and disperse rioters, so they don't have to shoot them with real bullets when they threaten officers. Probably why they have effective riot gear to shield them, except when they all aren't wearing it and get seriously injured like at least 15 of them did. I've never said not to use rubber bullets or tear gas.
So they don't have to shoot them with real bullets when they threaten officers? Interesting that they don't want to shoot them with real bullets when threatened during a riot, but real bullets aren't a problem with it's a tard in a doorway fiddling with a screwdriver or someone standing less than 21 feet away with a knife. Police officers are pretty Quick Draw McGraw in seemingly every situation where police officers feel threatened (which is all of the time), except during rioting. So, why is it, do you think, that police officers don't shoot rioters with real bullets who are assaulting police officers? The police are being assaulted with bricks and other projectiles which are obviously dangerous enough to cause serious injury or death. Not shooting them doesn't make any sense, as the Detroit prosecutor (and our own Pilgrim) suggests.

Here's an interesting read.
 

Turtle

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Retired Expediter
This is true, but none the less, his report was a blatent lie.
Honest mistake.
I wouldn't call it a blatant lie, but it certainly wasn't an honest mistake, either. It was breathtakingly amateurish journalism in an effort to claim a scoop. It was recklessly reporting potentially incendiary events without even attempting to obtain confirmation.

It's ironic that it would more likely be MSNBC or CNN who would leap first and report in this manner (out of control cop shoots fleeing black suspect/protester), and then Fox News would discredit and make fun of it, for days.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Well, the mayor never said that. She said "we gave" not "we give." Her statement was past tense, after the fact, and therefore could not have been a signal to the rioters. Since you're all about context and full quotes, I offer this link which contains both, knowing full well that after reading it you will come away with whatever you want, anyway.

You should probably do some earnest research on that one, as you are incorrect on that.

Have you seen the pictures and the videos of police officers throwing bricks and rocks at protesters? While Baltimore police Capt. Eric Kowalczyk stated that police would deploy traditional riot-dispersing tools such as "see tear gas, you're gonna see pepper balls," he had no response to a request for comment about the photos and videos of officers throwing projectiles.

Smooth that you got the anti-Obama dig in there. Excellent job. That's almost as good as liberals blaming Bush for everything. But everything you describe, including the long debunked "culture" can be found in every major city in the country, yet those cities aren't rioting. There must be more to it than failed liberal policies, Obama, culture, opportunity and peer pressure as to why they rioted.

Percentage of US black households that are singe parent households is about 67% and for whites it's about 34% (interestingly, it's a mere 16% for Asian and Pacific Islanders), but in sheer numbers, there are vastly more white single parent households than there are black. And in both percentage and raw numbers, whites outnumber blacks by a large margin for illegal drug use. So I don't think single family homes and drugs can realistically be pointed at as a cause for rioting, much less something that breeds disregard for authority and law and order. You know that breeds disregard for authority and law and order? History proves that abusive and biased law enforcement does it every time.

People always say facts are irrelevant when they don't like them, or they have a feeling the facts they're about to be giving won't support what they already believe. If bricks are so important to this circumstance, even to the point of be categorized as the context of a prosecutor statement, and if they can be called lethal weapons, then bricks must have some sort of lethal history with regard to riots. Except they don't.

Not to a police officer in full riot gear.

So they don't have to shoot them with real bullets when they threaten officers? Interesting that they don't want to shoot them with real bullets when threatened during a riot, but real bullets aren't a problem with it's a tard in a doorway fiddling with a screwdriver or someone standing less than 21 feet away with a knife. Police officers are pretty Quick Draw McGraw in seemingly every situation where police officers feel threatened (which is all of the time), except during rioting. So, why is it, do you think, that police officers don't shoot rioters with real bullets who are assaulting police officers? The police are being assaulted with bricks and other projectiles which are obviously dangerous enough to cause serious injury or death. Not shooting them doesn't make any sense, as the Detroit prosecutor (and our own Pilgrim) suggests.

Here's an interesting read.
Lol. Since the mayor said they gave room to destroy, a logical rioter (oxymoron ) would assume they would do it again, and shazam, that's exactly what they did. The police stood down and let them riot and loot.

Yes, I saw the officers throw the bricks in self defense. BTW did you see the ones WITHOUT full riot gear? I also saw the police with riot gear retreating from the onslaught of brick throwing. Did you ? If the gear was so effective, why did they retreat rather advance and make arrests and save a community from further destruction ? Over 15 officers hurt, but what the heck, it's only bricks .
I included Obama in it because it's true. Labor participation under his administration has declined, affecting minorities more than ever. I ALSO MENTIONED the immigration policy that has negatively affected low income people FOR DECADES. Obama has just made it even worse with his Executive Actions.

The facts don't back you up on abusive and biased law enforcement that breeds disregard for law and order.
Officers don't kill blacks more than whites. There is even evidence statistically that officers are LESS likely to shoot and kill blacks. I know this destroys someone's narrative that police are open season on them, but it's just not the case.
There is animosity towards police, but it is due to ( the only ones) going into the roughest areas to protect blacks from being victims of crime from mostly other blacks. It also has to do with the media reporting on a black shooting death at a much greater degree than a white victim of a police shooting. The race is almost always identified in the news when there is a black person who is shot by a white officer. It's also done in everyday violent crime and murder stories. If there is a white on black crime or murder, the media will identify the races of the two. If it is a black perpetrator, the race is rarely be given in the report . This plays a big role in someone's perceptions because black victims by white perpetrators is miniscule, while black perpetrators of violent crimes on whites and other non blacks it's much higher.

The officers didn't shoot the brick throwing rioters because they were protected with riot gear.( the majority of them anyway ) The other officers had the ability to retreat and deescalate so as not to use lethal force. An officer without riot gear approaching someone who they think has a dangerous weapon, even if it turns out to be a screwdriver is a completely different situation. A silly comparison. Apples and cynder blocks .
 
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Pilgrim

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Retired Expediter
If you have an alternate strategy I'm sure we'd all like to hear how you would diffuse a situation that threatens you with immediate and severe bodily harm. Maybe you'd ask the thug(s) about their home life or ask them to discuss their grievances.:rolleyes: In reality it appears you're full of your cartoon content.
 

Turtle

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Retired Expediter
Lol. Since the mayor said they gave room to destroy, a logical rioter (oxymoron ) would assume they would do it again, and shazam that's exactly what they did. The police stood down and let them riot and loot.
LOL shazam that's not what they did at all. The police didn't stand down, they made arrests and tried to control the rioting crowd as best they could.

Yes, I saw the officers throw the bricks in self defense.
No you didn't. You saw officers in full riot gear with loaded weapons and holding shields throwing rocks at rioters. If they were doing that in self-defense, they are the most butt-stoopid cops ever.

BTW did you see the ones WITHOUT full riot gear? I also saw the police with riot gear retreating from the onslaught of brick throwing. Did you ? If the gear was so effective, why did they retreat rather advance and make arrests and save a community from further destruction ? Over 15 officers hurt, but what the heck, it's only bricks .
Yes. Yes. They were vastly outnumbered. No one was killed by a brick.

I included Obama in it because it's true. Labor participation under his administration has declined, affecting minorities more than ever. I ALSO MENTIONED the immigration policy that has negatively affected low income people FOR DECADES. Obama has just made it even worse with his Executive Actions.
People have been rioting for centuries, mostly for the same reasons, not one of which is Obama.

The facts don't back you up on abusive and biased law enforcement breeds disregard for law and order.
Actually they do. So does common sense. If you are abused, or bullied, or merely pestered repeatedly, it doesn't breed love and affection or respect for the abuser/bully/pesterer.

Officers don't kill blacks more than whites. There is even evidence statistically that officers are LESS likely to shoot and kill blacks. I know this destroys some peoples narrative that Police are open season on them, but it's just not so.
That's a statement which ignores that there are more than five times more whites than blacks in America. When comparing death rates, blacks are about three times more likely than whites to die in a confrontation with police.

There is animosity towards police, but that is due to them ( the only ones) going into the roughest areas to protect blacks from being victims of crime from mostly other blacks.
That's another myth that the parroters won't let go.

It also has to do with the media reporting on black shooting victims at a much greater degree than a white victim of a police shooting takes place.
Yeah, I know what you mean, it would be a lot more comfortable if the media would just shut up about these black shooting victims.

The race is almost always identified in the news when there is a black suspect who is shot by a white officer. It's also done in everyday violent crime and murder stories. If there is a white on black crime or murder, the media will identify the races of the two. If it is a black perpetrator, the race is rarely given in the report . This plays a big role in people's perceptions because black victims by whites perpetrators is miniscule, while black perpetrators of violent crimes on whites and other non blacks it's much higher.
You complain about disparity in reporting because it alters perceptions, and then the last sentence affirms those perceptions. Yes, race is almost always identified in the news when there's a black suspect who is shot by a white officer. That's what happens when all too often the shooting never should have happened, and the cop is never charged with anything, because the "I feared for my life" card gets played and the first official word from the police is "it was justified." Even in the North Charleston shooting, the officer reported over the radio and on his written report that the dead guy went for his taser, the police immediately stated it was a justified shooting (because, you know tasers are deadly), and then the video came out that showed the cop shooting the dead guy in the back as he was running away and as the cop ran up to the dead guy the cop tossed his taser down next tot he body. At that point the police narrative became, "Whoops."

Officers didn't shoot the brick throwing rioters because they were protected with riot gear.( the majority of them anyway ) The other ones had the ability to retreat and deescalate so as not to use lethal force. An officer without riot gear approaching someone who they think has a dangerous weapon, even if it turns out to be a screwdriver are completely different situations. A silly comparison. Apples and cynder blocks .
No, it's not a silly comparison. Either the life of the officer is threatened or it's not. If the officers didn't shoot because they were wearing riot gear and they were therefor not in a threatening situation, then there's no reason to say that rioters throwing bricks at those officer should be shot. But that's not the reason they didn't shoot.

Did you know, according to polling from Gallup and Pew and others, 70% of white Americans think the justice system is color blind, that cops are not biased in their policing, Blacks have very different daily experiences, so it's not surprising they'd have very different views on the matter. And since whites don't experience it, and don't believe there's a disparity, it makes it easy for them to ignore the voices of those who say otherwise.
 

Turtle

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Retired Expediter
If you have an alternate strategy I'm sure we'd all like to hear how you would diffuse a situation that threatens you with immediate and severe bodily harm. Maybe you'd ask the thug(s) about their home life or ask them to discuss their grievances.:rolleyes: In reality it appears you're full of your cartoon content.
I think what he's trying to say is, in conversation, particularly abstract hypotheticals, people can talk a good game, but in situations where you actually have to take a life, it's not as easy in the moment as it sounds.
 

Turtle

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An unarmed source and an unsubstantiated report, from Fox News. Yeah, I'll laugh, too.
 
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