B-load Blues...

[kg]

hopefully with the indulgence of the topic police and the expeditors with good taste i would like to step up to the complaint desk.

first let me advise you that i am not retired, nor do i ever think that i would like to own a motorhome.

over the years i've seen many threads about retirees in expediting.in most cases the author proclaims how wrong and unfair it seems for an individual who is retired to be productive.

they can't understand how someone should be allowed to persue a second career, and take a job from someone else. BUNK!

first in most cases expediting is not a job but an investment of someones hard earned money into a business venture frought with risks. BRAVO to the brave who venture young or old.

secondly most people who really want to work are gainfully employed and those who really don't dabble around the edges.

thirdly for someone contemplating a career in expediting,a look at the demographics should show them that a good percentage of their competition is experienced.

one could wonder why someone not close to retirement and with dependents to support would choose such a risky way to make a buck.

just my opinion

 

[Tennesseahawk]

kg, thanx for putting words in my mouth. I am talking about vans specifically, not expediting as a whole. There's plenty of room in expediting, but ppl are complaining about getting their toes stepped on when it comes to vans. I'm just expressing the culmination of what's floated around EO for the past year.

I'm not retired either... but if I were collecting a "big-3 pension", I wouldn't jump into an obviously over-filled industry to make "money for fishin". How would you feel if someone from Ford told you they wanted to get into your crowded area of the industry after they retire and make some fishin money? You say that's not taking a job away? Sorry... but when ppl like that keep taking their share of pie, the ones who are really hungry end up starving to death.

 

[tiredofsittn]

the problem is these greedy companies, we do all the work, but NLM and your compamy make all the money, the easy money. its not fleet size, its not retired people its GREED. the middle man needs to be cut out, either your company get the freight from the shipper or let us get the freight from NLM.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

The only way you're getting freight from NLM is by getting your own authority, then go to Detroit to take their class.

I don't think greed by the companies are the reason vans aren't moving. It's the amount of van loads compared to vans. Companies are paying their contractors what the market and competition deems appropriate. And NLM is only a broker set up to take the pressures off of the companies they serve. I don't think they set rates. They just referee the bidding process. If I'm wrong please correct me.

 

[tiredofsittn]

oh there is van freight, plenty, its just alot of it is short an all of it is to cheap. im just tired of seeing all these tired worn out vans, tired worn out drivers in their tired worn out cloths in the tired worn out truckstops,tired worn out straight trucks, im tired of being broke and pinching pennies, tired of wearing myself out while these companies build big nice buildings and spend so much money on advertising and recruiting

 

[TheGoodGuy]

T-Hawk ponder this. We just sold our "D" Unit, (we could no longer abide by the new HOS), and purchased a sprinter van with a long wheel base and high top roof. Right now its in the shop, having a sleeper conversion installed.

Awhile back(early 90's,)I parted Company with Lockheed SOC, prime shuttle contractor at Kennedy Space Center. I was Senior Systems Analyst in the special projects division, great paying position.

It was EXTREMELY STRESSFUL, a TRUE PRESSURE COOKER TRYING TO GET THE SHUTTLE LAUNCHED ON SCHEDULE! So you could say I made some room for one of my fellow junior cohorts.

I'm also retired military.

Why did I get into the transportation sector..Hmmmmmmm lets see..We like to travel, it pays well, very low stress(it's not rocket science), and as owner operators, we are totally independent. Its a fun job. We run limited miles in the winter season, enough to keep our lease intact.

T-Hawk wrote "Sorry... but when ppl like that keep taking their share of pie, the ones who are really hungry end up starving to death."

Maybe we are the kind of people you are referring to. We generally take our share of the pie and invest in high yeild, low cost mutual funds.

Made a killing this year in petroleum related funds.

We are truly sorry for those that are really hungry, and starving. It stands to reason, that we are only flourishing in the richest country on earth. Its not like those poor, hungry starving folks didn't have access to a free public education, and all the other wonderful freedoms and benefits this country has to offer.

Trying not to oversimply things, but it takes a very special person to be poor in this country, fortunately its not a specialty that most people aspire to.

To make a long story short, most of the conjecture in your intial post is patently absurd, especially when you follow it up in another post with this quote,

"I have no experience with vans, and have no intention of getting into that area". Holy Moly are you for real?

Just exactly what is your rational? Are you trying to dissuade people from getting into the van segment of the business, because you want in; or is it your intention to recruit all the Van Drivers to get into "D" units because you have their best interests at heart?

Please continue to impart to us the benefits of your wisdom..

 

[tiredofsittn]

MR. GoodGuy, bring your high and mighty self out here and get you some. turn down some of those little junk runs and let the little smart - - - college educated idiot dispatchers get smart with you over the phone . and be sure to do some of that braging as your sittn around, oh yeah i cant wait till your introduced to the union pigs at every consignee. have fun

 

[greg334]

Broompilot said –

We all have our business's to run, my past expierence with my last company showed me to never give it away. As past expirence tought me it always comes back to bite you the customer who wants it cheap than usually wanted more for less where as a well profitable co. respected my efforts and negioated in good faith for a good deal for both of us and let me in on the process. Now this aint cleaning but the bottom line in any business is profit, and the more people give it away the less you will have at Christmas time.

Sometimes its better to sit than to run for free..... or just payin my costs as OOIDA says SAY NO TO CHEAP FREIGHT... what a great philsophy.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok I have to add something here.

In business there are no give away, everything costs something but there is a philosophy that in business it is what is in the cash drawer at the end of the day that counts. What I mean is that some of these companies can’t or won’t take a low paying load to move someone to make more money in the long run simply because they are not intelligent enough to work the system to their advantage and it is what I was taught a long time ago not to do; stumble over dollars to chase pennies. The profit and loss game is one that can be worked to make a lot of money but it takes an understanding what the customer needs, not how much can be squeezed out of them.

See the funny thing is that many companies claim that they have contracts and that is how we get our loads, but in fact as I am told the most contracts are in place have to do with basic doing business with and how they get paid, not what rates are paid. The ones who have rates spelled out don’t go through NLM and have more dedicated runs in place.

I took a lot away from my informal talks I had and I can tell you they are watching, no doubt that they know that this entire just in time system they have been so dependent on is now super critical to their survival and that they are willing to stop using some companies and use others who will ask; how can we help you survive.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tiredofsittin said –
the problem is these greedy companies, we do all the work, but NLM and your compamy make all the money, the easy money. its not fleet size, its not retired people its GREED. the middle man needs to be cut out, either your company get the freight from the shipper or let us get the freight from NLM.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don’t really agree with the idea it is all greed, it is more complex than that. It really is the way the fleets are used, the fleet size of a company, the composition of trucks in a fleet and yes it is the contractors themselves that all matter.

The thing is about fleet size, many companies don’t follow what the IT industry learned a long time ago; so what if you have a million contractors available to sign, the turn over cost money and it makes you look bad in the long run. I have yet to hear any company that follows what business consulting companies like Gartner (big IT business consulting firm) have been advising, take care of your contractors, make sure the turn over is low. See many customers don’t see this, but a few have and it is funny that it is a concern but nothing is done to solve it.

For that matter one thing that has been mentioned in my informal talks has been the lack of technology in many companies. There is only one company that they mentioned several times that is an example of using technology the right way to get things done, can you guess who? I won’t say because I am told not to, but you can figure it out.

 

[TheGoodGuy]

I've been doin this now for 10 years Mr. TiredOfSittin. I suggest you go preach to another choir...

 

[tiredofsittn]

sounds like you would make a good fleetowner, you could just ride shotgun everynow and then with your driver and flip through your portfolio as your going down the road

 

[guest]

I just read this whole thread and the one thing that really jumped out at me was a little off topic but it was Greg's comment about turnover rate among contractors being one of the key indicators of a company's position in relation to its competitors.

Check the contractor turnover rate at the different carriers and you will find it is usually between 50% and 100%. I would say the company with the 50% turnover is probably a better place to be than the company with the 100% turnover rate. For those who look at this site wondering which company is best, this is a pretty good indicator to use. To find out just ask the recruiter: "what's the annual contractor turnover rate at your company?"

 

[simon says]

I agree with some reservations. I can understand why people who are tired of a past career, avocation, etc. and just want to stay active and make some money to survive. But why anyone wants to hang out in a van, let alone sleep in it for days on end, and you can't even stand up, is beyond me. You should have all been told that the industry is saturated up front- if you were lured into the dream of big money in your Sprinter with the red arrow, you got suckered.
It is tough enough anymore being a D' unit solo... At least get a C'unit with enough comfort and safe accomodations... Reminds me again of the 78 year old driving a charter bus. He should have never been put into that position: something wrong with this picture. When people still had good jobs and a savings, this wouldn't have happened.

Say no to cheap Freight...

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Goodguy... listen to yourself. You're retired, makin buku bucks from mutual funds, you leave one portion of the industry to stay legal, and get into another one which is saturated. Seems that failure to you is not relevant, as you can survive off of your other finances. So why get into vans in the first place? Businesswise it's a bad decision. For you it's a leisure thing. You want to see the country... it's fun. If you're as high on the hog as you say, get an RV, I'm sure you can afford it. Or better yet, someone brought up the idea of transporting them across country for money.

I'm not trying to make this post into a class warfare battle. What my intentions were when I decided to start this thread was to bring to light some of the frustrations that I've heard on here or in person from van drivers. What these ppl are saying is that those who don't need to be in vans need to get out, to help the rest of them survive.

And no, I don't plan on giving my 28' box up for a van that could hold 3 skids. That is bad business. I'd actually move up to a semi, cause that's where the money is at. But I don't trust the public, or my reaction skills, when pulling a 53' trailer.

Getting out of D's to get a van because of the new HOS is a poor excuse, in my opinion. Being retired military, I'm sure you've circumvented a few rules in order to get the job done. You don't seem the type to me who will give up something lucrative to get into something that you'd almost assuredly take a loss... if this a job to you.

 

[bryan]

HI
We can not pick and choose who comes into this industry.The only thing that we can do is educate those who are thinking about joining in and only those who are willing to ask.Be totally honest when talking to that guy who comes up to you in the truck stop parking lot and ask what its like.
Alot of people jump into a van thinking its easy money, well in my opinion its not.Everyday I wonder why am I doing this,being away from freinds and family, being on call 24/7 waiting for the phone to ring.And once it does dropping everything and go share the road with some people who apparently got their drivers license out of a box of carmel popcorn.So you say why don't I just quit whining and do something else,because I still make more money doing this than I can doing anything else that I know of.It's also addictive,the stress, the long hours, the money, and the way that one good load changes everything.
I don't see where {The Company}is this greedy heartless beast.Their just people trying to make money just like you and me.If I don't haul a load they don't make any money off of my truck.So when I make money they make money and vis-versa.Understand that the mentallity of {The Company} is the same that criminals use to legitamize their crimes. Don't expect a hand out because there are't any.If you want to make the money then your going to have to work for it or steal it.I prefer to earn mine.
If the new hours of service rules affect the industry as much as what I've been hearing, expediting should make a big come back next year especially the vans.Unless a tractor-trailor driver is doing a drop and hook a trip that use to take a day and ahalf to run will now take between 2 and 3 days. So until the powers that be can figure it out we should be busy.I think your going to see a lot of freight left on the docks simply because the driver can no longer afford to wait an hour or two to get loaded.
Thanks and have a good one.

 

[TheGoodGuy]

Sorry Hawk if I was a little over exuberant in my reply to your thread.

No offense intended.

You started your thread by referring to "TiredOfSitting and numerous others". I challenge you to find one post by the aforementioned, "TiredOfSitting" that is positive about our trucking community.

How can you hypothesize about a segment of our industry based on his deliberations. Apparently he has been victimized by, and I'll quote "Fleet Owners, College Educated Idiot Dispatchers, and Union Pigs".

Do you see where their might be a credibility problem here?

We have very good friends that drive team vans, and believe me they do very well. Sure we've all made a few bad business decisions, but most of us don't repeat our mistakes.

As far as the new Hours of Service, safety is PARAMOUNT in our operation and IMHO the HOS will test the limits of a hard running team's endurance. It certainly did ours.

And as far as hitting the road in a motorhome, we've been there and done that. We were on the road for two years in the late 80's, when we were young and tender and could do everything we physically wanted to do, hang gliding, dirtbiking, prospecting, just to name a few.

I completely understand, that if you're under the gun, trying to make a living out here and supporting a family it might be a different prospect. But that is not our situation. You simply cannot paint all of us with your broad brush based simply upon your own personal preconceptions or maybe misconceptions.

You stated, "You don't seem the type to me who will give up something lucrative to get into something that you'd almost assuredly take a loss... if this a job to you."

This is not a job for us Hawk, we are a business, "driving a truck is a job", our business entails corporate structuring, investment, reinvestment, accounting, depreciable assets, employment, growth; just to name a few, and last, and most importantly not least, profit sharing to the owners, (namely us).

Losing is not our vocabulary, it has never been part of the business plan.

Thanks for your ear Hawk....~S~

P.S. Our van will only hold 2 skids after the custom sleeper conversion. And yes you can stand up in a sprinter, I'm 6'.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Maybe I wasn't clear in my statement. The frustration comes from tiredofsitting and others. The statements about retirees, including the dock worker at Ford wanting fishing money came from another source. I also heard the same comment from a dockworker about getting into expediting when he retires. Can you see where I'm coming from with this? Ppl who do expediting as a hobby make up a portion of van o/os... I'm guessing a rather large portion. Same goes for those who would rather drive vans than trucks simply for the ease of it. What are they doing here? It is that kind of laziness and greed that are consuming the van market.

Laziness and greed got our country where it is now, especially in the automotive sector. WalMart doesn't help by having their crap made in China. Alot of ppl here preach "Say no to cheap freight", but how many of them shop for cheap crap at Wallyworld? I don't want it to petrify expediting as well, because then, cheap freight will be the norm for us. And vans are already experiencing that. I guess the rest of the industry is lucky OTR drivers don't like to sit, or Ds and Es will most undoubtedly suffer the same fate that vans face.

I'm probably not going to change minds with this thread, but hopefully I can open some eyes.

 

[RobA]

How many "hobbyist" van operators survive the winter?
This morning, in Mississauga, it's raining and cool; a nasty morning.
I think about those people who end up camping in truckstops on days like this; wouldn't they rather be warm at home?
If they spend as much time sitting as some complain; how do they fill crappy days like this?
Go to a mall and spend money?
Sit in a truckstop somewhere idling their profits away?
I'm in my 50's and either would get old very, very fast.
At the same time; does a van provide enough revenue for the owner to make a living? I don't see that it does unless there is another income source to suppliment it. Many people,though, don't have huge retirement pensions. I'm sure there are many van operators who are trying to make extra money to help their pensions.



Ppl
>who do expediting as a hobby make up a portion of van
>o/os... I'm guessing a rather large portion.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

I don't think anyone has a beef with supplimenting a retirement. The beef is getting into a van to make some poker money.