AT&T is how I spell FAIL!

bobwg

Expert Expediter
Well sorry to hear you all having trouble with ATT I have been with them since about 1992 when it was Southwestern Bell/Cingular then and for the most part have been happy with the service not saying I havent had few dropped calls or no service area like up in Michigan north east of Flint I have my cell phone and air card for my laptop thru them.
 

Doggie Daddy

Veteran Expediter
We have Sprint, AT & T, and Verizon and I really believe that the AT&T has the worst service of them all. Verizon and Sprint really seem to be about the same. I have a Sprint Aircard and I have been really happy with it.


So let me see if I have this straight,you are out there driving 55 mph with your sun visor removed and air tabs and turbo 3000D installed with your fuel efficient super singles just to pay your 3 phone bills? That's just crazy there,I'm just sayin'. :confused::confused:
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
So let me see if I have this straight,you are out there driving 55 mph with your sun visor removed and air tabs and turbo 3000D installed with your fuel efficient super singles just to pay your 3 phone bills?

Your also forgetting the super duper ultra modern FedEx special qualcomm satellite/gps/email system - sorry Linda I had to post that.
 

guido4475

Not a Member
Well sorry to hear you all having trouble with ATT I have been with them since about 1992 when it was Southwestern Bell/Cingular then and for the most part have been happy with the service not saying I havent had few dropped calls or no service area like up in Michigan north east of Flint I have my cell phone and air card for my laptop thru them.

The same with me, always have been treated exceptionally well by customer service, and has worked in 95% of the areas I am in, traveling,etc.My aircard is with them, as well, and could not be happier with them.They bend over backwards to correct a problem, no matter how big or small it is.My girlfreind had all kinds of problems with her verizon phone and customer service, till she got fed up and went to AT&T. Her phone and her sons would not even work in a wal-mart! But my AT&T phone/service always does.I get a few dropped calls, but not many.Lwaerence, have you talked to the technical dept at AT&T to find out what the problem is?
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
What!?! AT&T sucks? You don't say.
They all suck ..... by which I mean: they all drop calls.

Now you may understand why I said that Apple and AT&T's marketing of the iPhone is WRONG,
By what measure - that they sold so many ?

Apple should be forced to sell unlocked phones as everyone else should too.
Real fan of the free market eh ?

"Forced ....." ... what a crack up .....

There is no real reason why the iPhone can't work with other carriers if they are using the same technology (cell tech that is).
As elaborated by Mssr. Berry - they don't, and so, won't ....

Isn't technology wonderful, the expensive all inclusive super hightech fancy do everything iPhone is only as good as my $50 5 years old nokia, when you can't make a call, you can't make a call! :p
...... ahhh ...... really profound there Greg .... :p

OK so you now have the "Drop calls in Major Markets" feature, glad we have a new member to the club.
Count me in - was driving thru downtown Atlanta this evening on 20 just south of the downtown high-rises, conferenced with two other EO members - one Sprint or Nextel (think he was on the Sprint phone), and the other Verizon - and my iPhone promptly dropped the call. I immediately redialed one of the parties and the other called back I believe and we continued happily along our respective ways.

This 3-way conference call had been going on for a couple of hours (from when I was around Birmingham to ultimately over around 75 miles west of the GA/SC line) ..... each party had their phone drop the call several times. I believe the party with Verizon dropped the call most often - but in all fairness that was not unreasonable ..... given where that individual was calling from. (although the Sprint/Nextel guy was giving him a run for the out-in-the-middle-of-nowhere crown)

Now that the dreaded "Drop calls in Major Markets" feature has reared it's ugly head am I going to rush right out and sign up with another carrier and get another phone ?

..... not bloody likely ......

What cracks me up most about this ongoing saga is that somehow people have gotten it into their heads and believe that cellular phone service out to work as good as a hard-wired land line ..... where exactly is that expectation coming from ?

BTW - do you really consider that $99 is expensive for an iPhone ?

Leo - Great tip on turning off the 3G thing - I'll hafta try it ..... thanks.
 
Last edited:

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Rlent, wow who p*ssed in your coffee today?

The marketing of iphone has been fantastic and as usual people blindly flock to apple products without hesitation - got to be with the in crowd.

I feel the mistake Apple made was dealing with exclusive contracts and having AT&T as their only US carrier.

BUT there is something to be said about someone who has any smart phone being able to select a carrier of their choice and not be locked into something that they can't get out of.

As of yesterday, there is talk about verizon taking over the iPhone service based on a lack of performance by AT&T.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Rlent, wow who p*ssed in your coffee today?
Heheheh ..... musta been the girl that mis-marked my cup and caused the barrista at Target to make it with non-fat instead of whole milk ?

(grumpy old 'tard ain't I ? :p)

The marketing of iphone has been fantastic and as usual people blindly flock to apple products without hesitation - got to be with the in crowd.
I'm sure that's true in some instances .... although I can say in my case it really wasn't ...... I didn't adopt until the 3G and then it was based on how cool it was and what it was able to do ...... as opposed to being with any crowd (in, out, or stuck in the middle)

At the time I looked, I don't believe there was anything even remotely like it.

I feel the mistake Apple made was dealing with exclusive contracts and having AT&T as their only US carrier.
Hmmmm .... I dunno, mainly since I don't follow tech issues as closely as I used to - but isn't that similar to the way most of them operate ?

BUT there is something to be said about someone who has any smart phone being able to select a carrier of their choice and not be locked into something that they can't get out of.
Oh - I'll grant you that - I'm all for competition and the freedom to choose - the more of it the better. But forcing a company into a relationship with another company ?

I mean you do realize that apparently Verizon was approached first on the iPhone before Apple approached ATT right ? Verizon was unwilling to do the deal and couldn't come to an agreement .... maybe your frustration really needs to be directed at them, rather than at Apple ....

As of yesterday, there is talk about verizon taking over the iPhone service based on a lack of performance by AT&T.
Well first, the "talk" isn't that Verizon "would "take over" the iPhone service ....."

..... I believe it's that Apple would develop a 4G version of the iPhone that would work on Verizon's network (CDMA) using LTE technology.

Apple would almost certainly retain the GSM version that runs on ATT's network - but ATT would no longer have an exclusive lock on the iPhone. ATT would definitely be the loser under such a scenario ..... but consumers would be the winners, having more options .... which would be good.

Secondly, the rumors about Verizon getting the iPhone are pretty much perennial (constant) ..... my advice: wait for the press release.
 

jaminjim

Veteran Expediter
Greg said:
The marketing of iphone has been fantastic and as usual people blindly flock to apple products without hesitation - got to be with the in crowd

Blindly follow? Nope just like to have stuff work, and Apple stuff works right out of the box. And has more features from the beginning, Others just try and follow Apple's lead Microsoft comes to mind.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Digging through the news archives... a story that ran in USA Today a week or so before the debut of the iPhone...
Verizon passed on the opportunity to become the exclusive U.S. distributor, balking at Apple's demand for control over distribution, pricing, marketing and more. That left an opening for AT&T — then called Cingular — to cement a deal. (AT&T on Monday officially dumped the Cingular name and store signs now are being switched. The move came slightly ahead of schedule.)

Denny Strigl, Verizon's chief operating officer, decided to pass on the iPhone deal and says he has no regrets: "Time will tell" if he made the right call, he says.
The original exclusive deal between Apple and AT&T was through 2009 (the end of this year), at which time Apple could begin offering the phone to other carriers. When the iPhone 3G came about, Apple very much wanted AT&T to subsidize the phone to a $199 price point. It's a price point that killed AT&T's short term finances (a $400 subsidy per iPhone), but one that a 2-year contract will recoup, especially since iPhone users spend an average of $100 per month with the service. AT&T refused to subsidize the phones without an exclusive contract extension (one year, or two years, depending on who you talk to, AT&T's CEO isn't being entirely clear on the issue).

But AT&T knows full well that 40% of their 10 million iPhone users came from other networks specifically for the iPhone. It's hard to casually dismiss that as being not important. If they give up exclusivity, how many will run back to a stable network? AT&T doesn't want to find out, they'd rather stall things for 4G where they'll be on more even footing.

No matter how successful AT&T may be in lengthening its exclusive time spent with the iPhone, they are likely to maintain an inherent technological basis for holding the iphone close until two years after any contract expires. As the only major US carrier with 3G using the HSPA standard on the 850MHz band, the iPhone as-is only supports its service for full data. Adapting the phone to T-Mobile would require adding the 1,700MHz band, while switching to Sprint or Verizon would, at least for now, need a complete overhaul that swaps into the iPhone the CDMA calling and 3G access using EVDO, but both of these technologies is expected to gradually phase out within the next few years.

Eventually, AT&T and Verizon will share the same network format when they both move to 4G using the LTE (Long Term Evolution) format, but neither expects to have any significant networks until middle or end of 2010, rendering any truly multi-carrier US iPhone impractical until the possible new expiry date for the agreement between AT&T and Apple. Add to that you've got Congress taking a close look at net neutrality as applied to cell phones, as well as the phone-to-carrier exclusivity contracts, and you're probably looking at 4-5 years after the expiration date of Apple and AT&T's contract before cross-carrier phones become a commonplace reality.


On a related, anyone remember the Apple Newton? The Lisa? The Apple Pippin? Taligent? Cyberdog? Yep, stuff that works. :D
 

piper1

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Don`t have a clue how it works Turtle, but Bell and Telus in Canada have added HSPA to their CDMA networks (and did it pretty quickly to allow them to offer the I-Phone. It got a lot of people excited as the GSM network in Canada (Rogers) absolutely stinks as far as reliability is concerned.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
They have done that in Canada in preparation for the Olympics, you know, all those Europeans coming in with GMS phones, they nearly had to. Basically, they still have the CDMA base, with an HSPA layer on top of it. The different technologies are all about the shared use of a radio frequency channel, and the most efficient way to do it. It's not all that different from NAT on a computer network, actually.

4G is a GSM standard, but can be overlaid relatively easily onto CDMA networks. At least from the phone end. Lots of stuff has to be done on the carrier end, but not a bunch of new towers or anything like that. Data gets translated into whichever "language" is needed by the overlay.

The phone companies in South Korea and a few other places moved to a hybrid CDMA/HSPA network a couple of years ago, and it's what Verizon will be doing, as well. It makes the path to LTE much easier and relatively seamless. CDMA is definitely on its way out, at least in its current flavor, since what it will evolve into will be the 4G thing where CDMA voice will be ported over to 4G. At that point most all phones will work on all networks. What remains to be seen is how willing CDMA carriers are to allowing SIM cards. Once that happens, phone exclusivity goes out the window.

The thing is, except for Qualcomm's exorbitant licensing fees, CDMA is superior in many ways, technologically speaking to GSM, and the 4G standards will likely be a hybrid of the GSM and CDMA technologies. HSPA already is to a degree (there are about 5 different flavors of HSPA, each with additional letters). The biggest differences between GSM and CDMA is international compatibility (GSM wins, though that is somewhat of a misnomer), how the phones are activated (CDMA-Remotely by the carrier, GSM-locally by inserting a SIM card, GSM wins), call quality and reliability (CDMA wins), and broadband speed and reliability. AT&T's 3G broadband service, for example, is theoretically quite a bit faster (twice as fast) than the 2mbit broadband of EVDO's 3G, but that's .only under circumstances, and it's something that happens very, very rarely with current networks. In the real world, a headless Luke Wilson notwithstanding, both networks run at about the same speed, which tends to be somewhere between 500kbit and 1.5 mbit. In really good areas I'll get 2mbit, but mostly my downloads are in the 1.2 to 1.5 mbit range.

As for the international compatibility being somewhat of a misnomer, that's because many people think North America is the only place you'll find CDMA, and it's GSM everywhere else. It's Western Europe where GSM dominates, but in Eastern Europe, Russia, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, a few others, it's CDMA (2G, 3G, or both). Most of South and Central America is CDMA, as is most of Asia and the Pacific (China, Mongolia, India, Pakistan, Indonesia, even New Zealand). Africa has CDMA all over the place. Many of these places have GSM, as well, but some are strictly CDMA. So it's not like you can't take your CDMA phone overseas, you can. You just need to stick to places like South Africa, or Yemen, or Tajikistan (gesundheit).
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
On a related, anyone remember the Apple Newton?
Revolutionary product that spawned a new category of electronic devices: the personal digital assistant or PDA, employed some very cool handwriting recognition technology (Inkwell) All praise to the Newton for that smartphone you are using.

BTW, you can still get software to interface one with OS X and transfer data ..... :D

The Lisa?
Forerunner of the Mac .... used heavily by NASA for project management .... and essentially killed by it's own sibling: The Macintosh .....

Taligent ?
Yup .... Pink .... shows what happens when ya get those stuffed shirts at IBM and HP involved in something .... and Apple lets loose of control ....

Cyberdog?
Yeah .... based on OpenDoc .... and shows what happens when you try to produce a product that is based on something being developed in collaboration with Microsoft .....

The Apple Pippin?
Well ..... like Microsoft Bob, we all have a few skeletons in our respective closets ..... :rolleyes:

Yep, stuff that works. :D
Yeah ..... well .....

Microsoft_Bob.PNG
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
The biggest differences between GSM and CDMA is international compatibility (GSM wins, though that is somewhat of a misnomer) ..... As for the international compatibility being somewhat of a misnomer, that's because many people think North America is the only place you'll find CDMA, and it's GSM everywhere else.
Well, it is pretty much GSM everywhere else (World Marketshare: GSM 80%+, CDMA 10%+) - but that's not to say there aren't CDMA based carriers elsewhere as you rightly state.

Attached below is a world coverage map for GSM from GSMA (the GSM trade group) ....... I'd post one from CDG, the CDMA Development Group (or CDMA trade association) ..... but .... ahhh .... they don't publish one apparently ... :rolleyes:

(Open the link to the map image in another browser window for a full-size image)
 

Attachments

  • GSM_WorldPoster2009A.jpg
    GSM_WorldPoster2009A.jpg
    95 KB · Views: 6

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The CDG.org does publish one. View worldwide or by region.

BTW,
Revolutionary product that spawned a new category of electronic devices: the personal digital assistant or PDA, employed some very cool handwriting recognition technology (Inkwell) All praise to the Newton for that smartphone you are using.
"Revolutionary" might be a bit strong, since the Newton MessagePad was an unabashed attempt to duplicate Psion's success with their PDA's. Fully 12 years before Sculley introduced the Newton (and coined the PDA term), Psion defined the PDA and had great success with several versions of the device. The Newton employed some nifty new things, like the handwriting recognition software, but the Psion 5 already had touch sensitive screens and had been linking to the desktop for data transfers since about 1986. The smartphones we use today can be traced back more directly to Palm, US Robotics, and Nokia, who made the first true smartphone, the Nokia Communicator (which used the GEOS software that I played a part in developing, before they switched to Symbian in more recent years). Apple introduced a second generation Newton, the eMate in 1997, but discontinued PDA evelopment a year later when the handwriting software proved to be too slow and unreliable.

"Well ..... like Microsoft Bob, we all have a few skeletons in our respective closets ..... :rolleyes:"

Careful, or you'll turn into an Apple fanboy. :D

Like jaminjim said, I'm more interested in stuff that works. I'm not a Windows Guy or an Apple Guy. I'm a Hardware Guy who likes to tinker, and as a result I think I've got more crappy skeletons in my closet than Microsoft and Apple combined.

On a side note, as of last month the iPhone owns 51% of the Internet traffic worldwide. That's impressive.

While the Android phones are starting to cut into that, if AT&T ever allows tethering, that percentage is gonna skyrocket. :D
 

eah24fan

Seasoned Expediter
Leo Laporte the Tech Guy on XM radio on the weekends talked yesterday about the Iphone soon being available on the Verizon network. He said it was the big thing at the tech conference they just had. I have been looking at getting the Iphone but I am with Verizon right now. Think I may wait a tad longer and see if Verizon comes out with it.
 
Top