Arizona shooting: Have Sarah Palin's election chances been damaged?

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
Telegraph Jan 10


Sarah Palin stayed unusually in the background on Monday, quietened by a furore over the Arizona shooting that seems likely to have damaged her chances of running for president in 2012

Fairly or unfairly, the attempted assassination of Gabrielle Giffords could prompt a reassessment on Sarah Palin’s part of whether a White House run is what she wants.

Since she stepped down as Alaska governor in July 2009, Sarah Palin has straddled the worlds of entertainment and politics with her folksy, frontierswoman persona. She has gained a cult following and spurred intense debate within the Republican party about her suitability for a run at the White House.

But her down-to-earth and occasionally hardline rhetoric was cited by critics in the immediate aftermath of the shooting, including a midterm campaign graphic that showed crosshairs on Democratic congressional districts seats for Republicans to target.

The graphic was hastily removed from the web on Saturday and has come back to haunt Sarah Palin, not least because Congresswoman Giffords herself had expressed her concern.

“We are on Sarah Palin’s targeted list,” Congresswoman Giffords told MSNBC at the time, noting that hers was one of 20 conservative districts being highlighted.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It sickens me that these "so-called" news outlets are running stuff like this. This is a tragic, senseless act, committed by ONE person. The idea that these news outlets and political parties will try to use this to further an agenda is disgusting. This kind of thing has to stop. No matter who is trying to do it.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Telegraph Jan 10


Sarah Palin stayed unusually in the background on Monday, quietened by a furore over the Arizona shooting that seems likely to have damaged her chances of running for president in 2012

Fairly or unfairly, the attempted assassination of Gabrielle Giffords could prompt a reassessment on Sarah Palin’s part of whether a White House run is what she wants.

Since she stepped down as Alaska governor in July 2009, Sarah Palin has straddled the worlds of entertainment and politics with her folksy, frontierswoman persona. She has gained a cult following and spurred intense debate within the Republican party about her suitability for a run at the White House.

But her down-to-earth and occasionally hardline rhetoric was cited by critics in the immediate aftermath of the shooting, including a midterm campaign graphic that showed crosshairs on Democratic congressional districts seats for Republicans to target.

The graphic was hastily removed from the web on Saturday and has come back to haunt Sarah Palin, not least because Congresswoman Giffords herself had expressed her concern.

“We are on Sarah Palin’s targeted list,” Congresswoman Giffords told MSNBC at the time, noting that hers was one of 20 conservative districts being highlighted.
This lame attempt to politicize a national tragedy by the radical left and their willing accomplices in the mainstream media will come back to bite them. Even semi-knowledgeable likely voters recognize that this effort is the lowest of political cheap shots. This nutty kid probably didn't even know about Sarah Palin's targeted congressional districts. Furthermore, the Democrats have used that exact language in the past in their campaign efforts. These are the desperate efforts of the liberal wing of the Democrat partisans to save a doomed cause - the American public has rejected their agenda, but here is yet another effort on their part to capitalize on the grief and emotions of innocent victims and their families. The concepts of integrity and civility is obviously foreign to them.
 

EnglishLady

Veteran Expediter
It sickens me that these "so-called" news outlets are running stuff like this. This is a tragic, senseless act, committed by ONE person. The idea that these news outlets and political parties will try to use this to further an agenda is disgusting. This kind of thing has to stop. No matter who is trying to do it.


This is what is being run by the Guardian

Sarah Palin hit by fallout from Arizona shooting spreeRepublican being damaged by repeated television showings of her having targeted Congresswomen Gabrielle Giffords


Sarah Palin hit by fallout from Arizona shooting spree | World news | The Guardian
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The liberals did the same thing on some of their blogs etc. with targets. Where was the outrage in the media then?
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
Who do u want on ur side in a stand off,,
Mrs Palin or Barry ? I like the Lady from Alaska. I know she is an American and has an American birth certificate,,not sure about the other dude. I better calm down now,,,wouldn't want to get patriotic and get sued by the ACLU. I went down a rabbit trail didn't I?
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Actually it could be but I doubt it.

The problem is that the media and the feds are making this out as a national tragedy and it isn't by any means. It is a crime, a violent crime but does not justify a national moment of silence, the president racing down to reinforce poll numbers by making a speech at a memorial service and a monument on the spot where a judge was killed (there was talk about this, this morning).

See maybe you don't agree with me but the thing is this is a state where we allow people to invade our country, where the crime against innocent American citizens has increased to the point that it maybe safer to roam around the streets of Detroit with money falling out of your pocket and where one city is the kidnap capital of the country. Let's not forget the civil war that is raging south of the boarder - all of that is a real national tragedy.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
1st, I don't think you will see Palin run in 2012 anyhow..if anything she will make an attempt at taking Steeles place as head of the RNC...that being said...

The Dems are working overtime to blame this on the Tea Party and use it to their advantage:


One veteran Democratic operative, who blames overheated rhetoric for the shooting, said President Barack Obama should carefully but forcefully do what his predecessor did.

“They need to deftly pin this on the tea partiers,” said the Democrat. “Just like the Clinton White House deftly pinned the Oklahoma City bombing on the militia and anti-government people.”

Violence and politics merge

Violence and politics merge - Jonathan Martin and Ben Smith and Alexander Burns - POLITICO.com
 

witness23

Veteran Expediter
1st, I don't think you will see Palin run in 2012 anyhow..if anything she will make an attempt at taking Steeles place as head of the RNC...that being said...

Care to place a wager on that? I will lay money down that Mrs. Palin will not, 1) Run for the Presidency and 2) Run for Steeles job.

The Dems are working overtime to blame this on the Tea Party and use it to their advantage:

As are the Republicans, and some here in the Soapbox for that matter.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Giffords' office was one of several members of Congress who had their office vandalized just hours after the Health Care vote.

Giffords' Republican opponent in the 2010 midterm campaign was Jesse Kelly. She narrowly defeated him. During the race, he held a campaign event for which in an ad for the event invited supporters to shoot a machine gun. "Get on Target for Victory. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully a automatic M16 with Jesse Kelley."

"The way that she [Palin] has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district, when people do that, they have got to realize there are consequences to that." - Gabrielle Giffords


Consequences. You betcha people have got to realize there are consequences to that. People try and dismiss the consequences saying it was an isolated incident, a nutjob on the rampage, not politically motivated. Be that as it may, an assassination attempt of a political figure is inherently political, isolated or not, nutjob or not.

This particular shooter's lunacy ran the gamut from crazy right-wing, crazy left-wing, Libertarian, Communist, and Nazi fixations, along with heavy paranoia about mind control and some twisted obsession with literacy. So it would be difficult to peg Loughner's behavior to his allegiance to any political movement or his influence by any particular pundit or politician, as was noted in this Blog:
Loughner was a disturbed and frightened man looking to blame someone for everything. And that is maybe the whole point. When Sarah Palin says to "reload" in an effort to take back the 20, or Sharon Angle suggests the need for "Second Amendment solutions" to take back the government, sane people don't hear that as an explicit call for armed insurrection. They recognize it as charged political rhetoric intended to engage and polarize an audience. But if your mind is a little less balanced... if your predisposition is toward paranoid fear... if you are basically a walking bomb in search of a detonator, then such messages resonate somewhat differently than mere rhetoric.
The political right has a particular penchant for militant and violent political rhetoric. Their opponents are often positioned as evil and bent on destruction of the country. Labels of communists and fascists, political regimes the country has previously been at war against, are thrown about. Guns are frequently brandished at political events.

On the flip side, you can't hold a Republican Convention without the political left rioting in the streets. The fact is, at the heart of pretty much all political violence lie left-wing ideas, even the violence that is committed by the wacko right. At the core of political violence is either radical change, or radical status quo, both of which are left wing.

The media on the left, and the media on the right, have for years been stirring the vitriol. Political figures themselves have joined in the fray. It certainly makes for better television. People have been showing less and less respect for others when discussing the issues. And it's because the issues are rarely discussed without the use of ad hominem attacks, either directly to en mass to large groups of people, and even entire political parties. I don't merely disagree with you, but rather you are wrong, and an idiot, and you're wrong because you are <insert political party here>.

The hate we are seeing of late is generated by the hateful way American politics is carried out these days, both by politicians and by "news" organizations panning for ratings. If you don’t think Fox and Friends, Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, Olbermann, Madow, Matthews, et al, bear any of the responsibility for this, then you are being naive. The nutjobs are the least likely to be immune to the influence of this stuff. They are likely the most gullible, malleable, and primed to be incited to violent action. Perhaps your words don't make you criminally negligent... but they still matter.

We have people filled with such hate, spurred by the rhetoric of hate, who don't even have the common courtesy to refer to the president and Congressmen by name, and must instead use some derogatory and/or demeaning euphemism or characterization. It's ubiquitous. If we keep going down this road and keep poisoning each and every well we pass, more and more of this is going to be the norm, routine, commonplace. When attacked, people will defend themselves. That includes the government. Whether it be in increased security for elected political leaders, or something else, the defensive blowback from the government may very well be in a manner in which you don't agree.

I keep pounding away at how people need to response to what was posted, rather than to who posted it. If you can stick to the issues then you can have a fruitful discussion. If you attack those involved in the discussion, it quickly denigrates into name calling and hate. The same thing is true in politics on a national scale.

You know, they’re using this thing...apparently there was a map from one of Palin’s things that had her (Congresswoman Giffords) targeted district. So, we looked at the internet and the first thing we found in 2007, the Democrat Party had a targeted map with targets on it for the Palin district. These maps have been used for for years that I know of. I have two pictures of myself with a bull's-eye on my head. Listen, I have a picture of Sarah Palin hanging from the end of a rope. They made a doll up like her and hung her.

This is just bull****. This goes on... both sides are wrong, but they both do it.

I told all of our guys, shut up, tone it down, make your argument intellectually.You don’t have to do it with bombast.I hope the other side does that.
The above quoted text is from Roger Ailes, President of Fox News.
 
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aristotle

Veteran Expediter
The rhetoric used in today's political climate is no worse than it was 50 years ago, 100 years ago or 200 years ago. Any student of political history knows this. What is true is current rhetoric is much more greatly dispersed, thanks to a 24/7 news cycle and a media cottage industry devoted to its dispersal. John Wilkes Booth was certainly a politically motivated assassin. Young Mr. Loughner seems to hate government and had a particular dislike for his US congresswoman. Rather than walk into classroom, as happened in Columbine, or walk into an Amish schoolroom, as in Pennsylvania... Jarred Loughner took his self-centered derangement to a political meet-and-greet at a Safeway market in Tucson. Mental derangement coupled with a propensity to violence coupled with opportunity.
 

Brisco

Expert Expediter
And why has nobody in the mainstream media jumped on the only Politician that has actually carried a gun, loaded a gun, and fired a gun in one of his campaign ads?

Believe it or not, it was not a Republican.

Yep, the only Politician that has done just that, and not just made innuendos about using weapons, cross hairs, and reloading, was the Democrat West Virginia Governor Joe Manchin.

YouTube - Dead Aim - Joe Manchin for West Virginia TV Ad

Where's the far left vitrial concerning this ad????
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The rhetoric used in today's political climate is no worse than it was 50 years ago, 100 years ago or 200 years ago. Any student of political history knows this. What is true is current rhetoric is much more greatly dispersed, thanks to a 24/7 news cycle and a media cottage industry devoted to its dispersal.
I think the very nature of the 24/7 news cycles is why the current political rhetoric is worse. Much of the rhetoric is the same now as it has always been, true enough, but in times past you had far more voices which affected far smaller groups of people, whereas today you have far fewer voices influencing far greater numbers of people.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
I think the very nature of the 24/7 news cycles is why the current political rhetoric is worse. Much of the rhetoric is the same now as it has always been, true enough, but in times past you had far more voices which affected far smaller groups of people, whereas today you have far fewer voices influencing far greater numbers of people.
I would contend the opposite is true. Until cable television and the internet came along, only a handful of voices at NBC, CBS, and ABC actually had a live national audience. Plus a few national radio broadcasters. During that era, the Big 3 networks and a few national newspapers held a nearly monopolistic grip on the dissemination of news and opinion. Now, with the advent of cable TV and the internet, there are exponentially more voices being heard. All points of view are easily accessed. BTW, up to this moment, there is zero evidence to suggest the shooter in Arizona was a consumer of any political talk show whatsoever. He appears to have been a deeply troubled young person not unlike tens of thousands of similar individuals who walk our streets everyday. There is no rational justification or explanation for Loughner's irrational act. Irrational acts defy rational thought.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
BTW, up to this moment, there is zero evidence to suggest the shooter in Arizona was a consumer of any political talk show whatsoever.
Neither am I, but that doesn't mean I'm not exposed to it. Lots of it, and most of it is inflammatory partisanship. Even on Facebook, it is everywhere.
He appears to have been a deeply troubled young person not unlike tens of thousands of similar individuals who walk our streets everyday.
If "deeply troubled" is a euphemism for mentally ill, [several of his college professors described his behavior as "disconnected from reality" - a classic symptom of schizophrenia] our national conversation needs to include the issue of treating the afflicted and protecting the rest of us. Because the words that incite violence can be taken at face value by one whose mental wires are crossed, as Loughner's clearly are.
There is no rational justification or explanation for Loughner's irrational act. Irrational acts defy rational thought.
Irrational actions demand a rational response, though, and that's what we aren't getting. Every suggestion that the violent and inflammatory rhetoric be toned down is met with fingers pointing at "the other side".
A nine year old child has died - contrary to a previous assertion, it IS a national tragedy, even more so because we don't seem to be working out how we can best prevent it from happening again.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Giffords' Republican opponent in the 2010 midterm campaign was Jesse Kelly. She narrowly defeated him. During the race, he held a campaign event for which in an ad for the event invited supporters to shoot a machine gun. "Get on Target for Victory. Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office. Shoot a fully a automatic M16 with Jesse Kelley."
Just a point of fact here - the M16 is not a machine gun, it's an assault rifle and has been the weapon of choice for the US military for over 40 years. It has a semi-automatic setting plus a fully automatic setting that's available only in the military version.

Colt Weapon Systems

"The way that she [Palin] has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district, when people do that, they have got to realize there are consequences to that."
- Gabrielle Giffords
I can't help but wonder if Representative Giffords and the MSM were aware of the map on this page from the DNC website that went up in 2010 (Note the subheading "Behind Enemy Lines"):


BP_0405_heartland1.gif


DLC: Heartland Strategy by Will Marshall
Consequences. You betcha people have got to realize there are consequences to that. People try and dismiss the consequences saying it was an isolated incident, a nutjob on the rampage, not politically motivated. Be that as it may, an assassination attempt of a political figure is inherently political, isolated or not, nutjob or not.

This particular shooter's lunacy ran the gamut from crazy right-wing, crazy left-wing, Libertarian, Communist, and Nazi fixations, along with heavy paranoia about mind control and some twisted obsession with literacy. So it would be difficult to peg Loughner's behavior to his allegiance to any political movement or his influence by any particular pundit or politician, as was noted in this Blog:
The political right has a particular penchant for militant and violent political rhetoric. Their opponents are often positioned as evil and bent on destruction of the country. Labels of communists and fascists, political regimes the country has previously been at war against, are thrown about. Guns are frequently brandished at political events.
Their penchant is no more prevalent than that of the left; consider that it was the liberals that were promoting books and movies about the assassination of George W. Bush, and media personalities commented often about the deaths of conservative political figures - but the media treated those liberal transgressions much differently. We were supposed to understand that these movies and books were "art". The statement about guns being "frequently brandished at political events" is false. However, keep in mind that the NRA - for example - does hold political rallies. It would be more accurate to say that political issues are frequently brandished at gun-related events.
I keep pounding away at how people need to response to what was posted, rather than to who posted it. If you can stick to the issues then you can have a fruitful discussion. If you attack those involved in the discussion, it quickly denigrates into name calling and hate. The same thing is true in politics on a national scale.

The above quoted text is from Roger Ailes, President of Fox News.
IMHO the media should also shoulder a large share of the blame for these nut cases going "postal" in such a public manner. The nut cases know they'll get wall to wall publicity and way more than their 15 minutes of fame. Their names will become recognized worldwide, their perceived cause or grievance will be successfully promoted, and they will likely be portrayed by the media as some sort of victim themselves. The MSM could go a long way toward reducing violent public incidents by these crazy publicity seekers by not releasing their names and photographs.

I remember my grandmother telling me that people in polite society should never discuss subjects over which nations go to war - primarily, politics and religion. As you mentioned above, when somebody runs out of intellectual ammunition (dang - that's probably not a good metaphor) during a heated debate, they often resort to the "if you don't agree with my point of view, you must be stupid" response. Their energies would be better spent on calling time out and doing a little more research on the issue at hand.
 
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