Are you prepared?
- Thread starter ATeam
- Start date
Additional info about the accident and random thoughts about it:
1. We were behind the truck that hit the car and the first to arrive on the scene. Parking our truck on the shoulder with flashers on secured the scene (to use a term that rose in the thread) for the moment. The car was in the ditch. The truck, a flatbed with an oversize load on, was parked ahead. The deer was on the other shoulder. No lanes were blocked. Gawkers slowed traffic moving by.
2. Diane, an RN, went to the car driver as I called dispatch and 911. I called dispatch to get a fix on our exact location. It did not matter. 911 already knew of the wreck by the time I got through.
3. The car driver amazed us by reporting he was OK. He got out of his car on his own and started picking up the pieces. He later reported to the paramedics that he was OK. He was wearing his seat belt. The air bag deployed. The driver's compartment remained intact. Hit a deer at highway speed, get rear-ended by a big truck, take a high-speed spin into a deep ditch, bounce a couple times in the ditch and come to rest. Then walk away. Amazing!
4. The deer died after suffering for a few minutes.
5. Two highway patrol officers arrived within moments of the call and began their work. We gave them and both drivers our names and contact info in case they needed witnesses. I was able to reliably report that neither vehicle was speeding before the wreck. I knew that because I had cruise control set at 63. The truck had passed me a while back at what I'd say was 65.
6. That is my usual practice, set cruise control a mile or two under the posted speed limit. Doing so is the easiest way I've found to keep safe space open in front of you. The cars that cut in pull away just as fast. You change lanes to pass the slow movers. That day, maintaining safe space kept us out of that accident. I stay in the right lane as much as possible. Like the signs say, "Slower traffic keep right." I also like the safe space the right shoulder provides that is not available to you if you are in the center or left lanes.
7. The technique known as "Drive High" (not high on drugs) helped too. As part of your ongoing scan, look as far ahead of you as you can see. From my vantage point, I saw the deer racing across the median before the other drivers did. I could tell something was going to happen. Either the deer would be hit or drivers would take abrubt action to avoid it, or both. When the deer was struck, I had already increased my following distance and slowed way down.
8. My heart went out to both drivers. One thought was, "There but for the grace of God go I." It happens several times a day that cars and trucks jump in in front of you. Had the deer suddenly appeared in front of a car that had just cut me off, I could have been the one rear-ending the car. When cut off, I either change to an open lane or slow down, but that takes a moment. A deer can appear and a car can stomp on its brakes in an instant.
9. Some trucks have camera systems in them that record events. We believe in cameras even more so now and will have them in the truck we buy (we drive a fleet owner's truck now).
10. Greg333 picked up on my intent. He said, "But I am wondering what the real question you were asking - reaction to the situation or the truck driver’s ability to control his/her truck or both?"
My intent was to highlight the emotional and mind rush that happens when one is involved in an accident and to hopefully prompt readers to be prepared, though being prepared for something like this is easier said than done.
11. We were involved in a minor accident ourselves a month or so ago. While creeping ahead in the right lane in backed up rush-hour traffic, a flatbed semi tried to come off a freeway ramp behind us and tried to turn into the left lane of a four lane city street, the lane to our immediate left. He took his riht turn off the ramp too tight and too soon behind us. He clipped the left rear corner of our truck, causing what appeared to be minor damage, but later was estimated at $2,700.
For about 10 tense minutes, as traffic in both lanes crept foward, and him not answering his CB, it appeared we might have a hit and run on our hands. As things turned out, the driver was decent. He kept moving but only to get to a place where we could both stop and exchange information. A Warner driver behind the flatbed witnessed the accident and stopped to offer his statement, which was that the flatbed driver was at fault. The flatbed driver admitted the same in writing to Diane as she completed the accident kit (nice to have a lawyer as a codriver).
12. Terry asked me the questions I asked in my initial post; namely, "As you walk quickly toward the car driver and witnesses, what thoughts would be racing through your mind? What would you do next? If you were that truck driver, would you be prepared? If your answer is yes, how do you know?
In response to the flatbed hitting us, I guess we were prepared since we knew to take photos with the accident camera and properly complete the accident kit our carrier provides, including getting the witness statement.
But I did not FEEL prepared at all.
The instant we felt the other truck hit us my mind started racing. Is he running away? Can I ID the truck? Do I call 911 for this tiny incident? If this is so tiny, why is my heart racing? Where is he going now? What about our load? Should I call dispatch now or stay focued on the other truck? Will this affect our career? If the freight is damaged, will we get charged with a freight damage claim? Do I call our fleet owner now or later? Plus a thousand other thoughts all at once. Breathe. Take a deep breath. Take another. Calm down. Think.
13. After our little incident, I resolved to be better prepared by becoming more familiar with our accident kit contents.
14. Back to the deer/car/big truck crash, the truck driver showed immediate concern for the car driver. He checked on the car driver first thing. I noticed the truck driver was quite jazzed up, as most anyone would be in that situation. He impressed me as a good truck driver. He had an older truck that was very well maintained. His oversize load did not budge an inch. It was well secured. He was dressed well and looked very much the professional. Recalling how my heart raced and mind flooded with thoughts in our little bump, and how grateful I was for the Warner driver that offered himself as a witness, I went to the truck driver to offer a calmer perspective.
By then, the police were already on the scene. I asked the truck driver, "Do you have an accident kit or camera in the truck?" He had an accident camera but no kit. I suggested he start taking pictures, especially of the deer and skid marks to show why they had to stomp on their brakes, and that the truck driver tried to avoid the accident. He did so as the police talked to the car driver and witnesses.
A few moments later, I spoke to him again and reminded him that the "What to do in an accident" cards insurance companies send out all say to not admit or deny liability. I told him he might want to stop moving around for a moment, take a breath, and gather his thoughts. I asked him how his truck was and went to it with him and helped him bend the bumper away from the tire. I thought about getting deeper involved with him when he started asking me questions but did not. By then, the fire trucks and paramedics had arrived. The police were done talking to others. It seemed like a good time to leave our names with the officers and both drivers, and get out of peoples' way; which we did.
15. I drove away resolved to become even more familiar with our accident kit and the instructions our carrier provides, to the point of memorizing those instructions. To be better prepared, I will, from time to time, run those instructions and different scenerios through my mind to be better focused if the need arises.
16. Emergency responders, I would guess, are way-more calm and collected when they arrive at their fifth emergency than they are at their first. Most truck drivers have few, if any, emergencies to react to and perform in. Running accident kit instructions and various scenerios through one's mind won't turn a truck driver into a fire fighter, but it's a good thing to do for yourself and others.
1. We were behind the truck that hit the car and the first to arrive on the scene. Parking our truck on the shoulder with flashers on secured the scene (to use a term that rose in the thread) for the moment. The car was in the ditch. The truck, a flatbed with an oversize load on, was parked ahead. The deer was on the other shoulder. No lanes were blocked. Gawkers slowed traffic moving by.
2. Diane, an RN, went to the car driver as I called dispatch and 911. I called dispatch to get a fix on our exact location. It did not matter. 911 already knew of the wreck by the time I got through.
3. The car driver amazed us by reporting he was OK. He got out of his car on his own and started picking up the pieces. He later reported to the paramedics that he was OK. He was wearing his seat belt. The air bag deployed. The driver's compartment remained intact. Hit a deer at highway speed, get rear-ended by a big truck, take a high-speed spin into a deep ditch, bounce a couple times in the ditch and come to rest. Then walk away. Amazing!
4. The deer died after suffering for a few minutes.
5. Two highway patrol officers arrived within moments of the call and began their work. We gave them and both drivers our names and contact info in case they needed witnesses. I was able to reliably report that neither vehicle was speeding before the wreck. I knew that because I had cruise control set at 63. The truck had passed me a while back at what I'd say was 65.
6. That is my usual practice, set cruise control a mile or two under the posted speed limit. Doing so is the easiest way I've found to keep safe space open in front of you. The cars that cut in pull away just as fast. You change lanes to pass the slow movers. That day, maintaining safe space kept us out of that accident. I stay in the right lane as much as possible. Like the signs say, "Slower traffic keep right." I also like the safe space the right shoulder provides that is not available to you if you are in the center or left lanes.
7. The technique known as "Drive High" (not high on drugs) helped too. As part of your ongoing scan, look as far ahead of you as you can see. From my vantage point, I saw the deer racing across the median before the other drivers did. I could tell something was going to happen. Either the deer would be hit or drivers would take abrubt action to avoid it, or both. When the deer was struck, I had already increased my following distance and slowed way down.
8. My heart went out to both drivers. One thought was, "There but for the grace of God go I." It happens several times a day that cars and trucks jump in in front of you. Had the deer suddenly appeared in front of a car that had just cut me off, I could have been the one rear-ending the car. When cut off, I either change to an open lane or slow down, but that takes a moment. A deer can appear and a car can stomp on its brakes in an instant.
9. Some trucks have camera systems in them that record events. We believe in cameras even more so now and will have them in the truck we buy (we drive a fleet owner's truck now).
10. Greg333 picked up on my intent. He said, "But I am wondering what the real question you were asking - reaction to the situation or the truck driver’s ability to control his/her truck or both?"
My intent was to highlight the emotional and mind rush that happens when one is involved in an accident and to hopefully prompt readers to be prepared, though being prepared for something like this is easier said than done.
11. We were involved in a minor accident ourselves a month or so ago. While creeping ahead in the right lane in backed up rush-hour traffic, a flatbed semi tried to come off a freeway ramp behind us and tried to turn into the left lane of a four lane city street, the lane to our immediate left. He took his riht turn off the ramp too tight and too soon behind us. He clipped the left rear corner of our truck, causing what appeared to be minor damage, but later was estimated at $2,700.
For about 10 tense minutes, as traffic in both lanes crept foward, and him not answering his CB, it appeared we might have a hit and run on our hands. As things turned out, the driver was decent. He kept moving but only to get to a place where we could both stop and exchange information. A Warner driver behind the flatbed witnessed the accident and stopped to offer his statement, which was that the flatbed driver was at fault. The flatbed driver admitted the same in writing to Diane as she completed the accident kit (nice to have a lawyer as a codriver).
12. Terry asked me the questions I asked in my initial post; namely, "As you walk quickly toward the car driver and witnesses, what thoughts would be racing through your mind? What would you do next? If you were that truck driver, would you be prepared? If your answer is yes, how do you know?
In response to the flatbed hitting us, I guess we were prepared since we knew to take photos with the accident camera and properly complete the accident kit our carrier provides, including getting the witness statement.
But I did not FEEL prepared at all.
The instant we felt the other truck hit us my mind started racing. Is he running away? Can I ID the truck? Do I call 911 for this tiny incident? If this is so tiny, why is my heart racing? Where is he going now? What about our load? Should I call dispatch now or stay focued on the other truck? Will this affect our career? If the freight is damaged, will we get charged with a freight damage claim? Do I call our fleet owner now or later? Plus a thousand other thoughts all at once. Breathe. Take a deep breath. Take another. Calm down. Think.
13. After our little incident, I resolved to be better prepared by becoming more familiar with our accident kit contents.
14. Back to the deer/car/big truck crash, the truck driver showed immediate concern for the car driver. He checked on the car driver first thing. I noticed the truck driver was quite jazzed up, as most anyone would be in that situation. He impressed me as a good truck driver. He had an older truck that was very well maintained. His oversize load did not budge an inch. It was well secured. He was dressed well and looked very much the professional. Recalling how my heart raced and mind flooded with thoughts in our little bump, and how grateful I was for the Warner driver that offered himself as a witness, I went to the truck driver to offer a calmer perspective.
By then, the police were already on the scene. I asked the truck driver, "Do you have an accident kit or camera in the truck?" He had an accident camera but no kit. I suggested he start taking pictures, especially of the deer and skid marks to show why they had to stomp on their brakes, and that the truck driver tried to avoid the accident. He did so as the police talked to the car driver and witnesses.
A few moments later, I spoke to him again and reminded him that the "What to do in an accident" cards insurance companies send out all say to not admit or deny liability. I told him he might want to stop moving around for a moment, take a breath, and gather his thoughts. I asked him how his truck was and went to it with him and helped him bend the bumper away from the tire. I thought about getting deeper involved with him when he started asking me questions but did not. By then, the fire trucks and paramedics had arrived. The police were done talking to others. It seemed like a good time to leave our names with the officers and both drivers, and get out of peoples' way; which we did.
15. I drove away resolved to become even more familiar with our accident kit and the instructions our carrier provides, to the point of memorizing those instructions. To be better prepared, I will, from time to time, run those instructions and different scenerios through my mind to be better focused if the need arises.
16. Emergency responders, I would guess, are way-more calm and collected when they arrive at their fifth emergency than they are at their first. Most truck drivers have few, if any, emergencies to react to and perform in. Running accident kit instructions and various scenerios through one's mind won't turn a truck driver into a fire fighter, but it's a good thing to do for yourself and others.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
After talking to a friend last night who is an MSP trooper, she sees a lot of deer/car-truck -4 wheeler accidents; hey we are the deer road kill capital of the world.
After what ATeam described, her comments were first the truck driver will not get a ticket if she was handling the scene, adding most MSP trooper would not give out a ticket for this. It is one of the few unavoidable accidents that happen and she has come to the aid of a few drivers who have been cited by their company by writing to the companies about the accidents. Remember the key word is ‘most’, some will out of spite.
She also reinforced my thoughts about the intent, which ATeam confirmed, thanks. And reminded me about the procedures that are mentioned here in this thread, but I have to clarify something I learned and she said, do not try to direct traffic, especially on a road that has a high speed limit, i.e. 45 to 75 MPH. It is best to move as much out of the way off the road at an accident scene. Use your judgment on blocking the road way with vehicles to protect someone that maybe in the road injured, but don’t go out their and try to direct traffic. Being a traffic cop is a very dangerous thing to do, especially when you realize that people are looking at the accident, not you and a lot of secondary accidents happen just like this. I know this from first hand experience, having my father hit by a car while directing traffic back in ’72.
As for first responders, she said anyone that is there first is a first responder, not just professionals. This is especially for the guy or gal who calls 911, the most important thing to do.
After what ATeam described, her comments were first the truck driver will not get a ticket if she was handling the scene, adding most MSP trooper would not give out a ticket for this. It is one of the few unavoidable accidents that happen and she has come to the aid of a few drivers who have been cited by their company by writing to the companies about the accidents. Remember the key word is ‘most’, some will out of spite.
She also reinforced my thoughts about the intent, which ATeam confirmed, thanks. And reminded me about the procedures that are mentioned here in this thread, but I have to clarify something I learned and she said, do not try to direct traffic, especially on a road that has a high speed limit, i.e. 45 to 75 MPH. It is best to move as much out of the way off the road at an accident scene. Use your judgment on blocking the road way with vehicles to protect someone that maybe in the road injured, but don’t go out their and try to direct traffic. Being a traffic cop is a very dangerous thing to do, especially when you realize that people are looking at the accident, not you and a lot of secondary accidents happen just like this. I know this from first hand experience, having my father hit by a car while directing traffic back in ’72.
As for first responders, she said anyone that is there first is a first responder, not just professionals. This is especially for the guy or gal who calls 911, the most important thing to do.
What kind of car was involved? Sounds like one that would have been tops in crash tests.
>What kind of car was involved? Sounds like one that would
>have been tops in crash tests.
Sorry. I did not take time to note the make and model. It was a mid-size sedan or full-size by today's standards. Years ago we would have called it a compact car. The car was brand new. The price list was still on the window.
>have been tops in crash tests.
Sorry. I did not take time to note the make and model. It was a mid-size sedan or full-size by today's standards. Years ago we would have called it a compact car. The car was brand new. The price list was still on the window.
16. Emergency responders, I would guess, are way-more calm and collected when they arrive at their fifth emergency than they are at their first. Most truck drivers have few, if any, emergencies to react to and perform in. Running accident kit instructions and various scenerios through one's mind won't turn a truck driver into a fire fighter, but it's a good thing to do for yourself and others.
I'm a retired police officer who has responded to hundreds of serious motor vehicles accidents.
With the exception of accidents involving children and fatalities one almost becomes immune to the carnage.
Regularly reviewing a plan one will follow in the event of an accident is indeed sound advice. When dispatched to accident scene I would regularly go over what should be done when first arriving at scene. Mind you every accident is unique but the fact I was thinking about what should be done, channeling one thought’s in the correct direction was helpful.
I carried a small pocket recorder to record statements from drivers and witnesses during investigation. I still carry one in any vehicle I drive.
John
I'm a retired police officer who has responded to hundreds of serious motor vehicles accidents.
With the exception of accidents involving children and fatalities one almost becomes immune to the carnage.
Regularly reviewing a plan one will follow in the event of an accident is indeed sound advice. When dispatched to accident scene I would regularly go over what should be done when first arriving at scene. Mind you every accident is unique but the fact I was thinking about what should be done, channeling one thought’s in the correct direction was helpful.
I carried a small pocket recorder to record statements from drivers and witnesses during investigation. I still carry one in any vehicle I drive.
John
Broompilot
Veteran Expediter
No one responded as to what not to do in securing the area. You as an unarmed (no armor) trying to secure the area could expose yourself to death. Hit by a Gawker. Be CAREFULL, the hell with whos gona rear end who after the fact, secure the area only until it is safe after cars begin slowing down to safe speed or stopping completely.
I came upon an accident in H.S. and wittnessed a class mate attempting to stop traffic to only be run over and killed. Was not worth the life that was lost the crashed car would have been able to withstand what he was not.
I knew better but could not warn him intime.
I came upon an accident in H.S. and wittnessed a class mate attempting to stop traffic to only be run over and killed. Was not worth the life that was lost the crashed car would have been able to withstand what he was not.
I knew better but could not warn him intime.
I'm not surprised to hear someone hit a deer on I-71 in KY . Almost every time I travel it I see at least a dozen deer in the median . But speaking of tough cars , I once hit a deeer with a '94 T-Bird . It did about $3400 damage to the right front and the airbag did not deploy although the right side airbag sensor was knocked from its mount . Two weeks later I was still driving it while waiting for the adjustor to look at it when I was rear ended by an F-350 . It did over $3,000 additional damage but didn't even break the rear window and I drove it another week before it went in the shop .
The median is wide and wooded from around the 23mm south to about the 12. There's a herd living in there and the authorities can't decide what to do about it. There was talk of bringing in sharp shooters but it would be too dangerous.
Just wanted to add additional information we received from the insurance companies now investigating this accident. The car was owned by a rental company. It was a 2005 Ford Taurus. There is no question in my mind that that car saved the driver's life. The driver was wearing his seat belt. The air bag deployed. The car hit a deer at highway speeds, got rear ended by a flat-bed truck carrying an oversized load, spun off the road into a steep and deep ditch where it bounced hard a couple times before coming to rest, and the driver walked away from an intact passenger compartment. If I was buying a car, I'd give the Taurus a good look.
davebeckym
Expert Expediter
That's why a lot of police cars are Taurus.
DocRushing
Expert Expediter
Various carriers teach or advise or require various following distances.
Most carriers -- that is, most of those who use the time method -- call for at least four seconds.
Some carriers ask for five or six seconds.
I try hard -- and I have taught Marda -- to maintain a following distance of at least four seconds -- even in good weather -- more in bad weather.
To measure my cushion, when the tail of the next vehicle ahead passes a certain point on the road, I start counting ("one thousand, two thousand, three thousand, ...") -- until the nose of my truck reaches the same point.
If I have not allowed at least four seconds, then I ease up a tad and back off a tad.
One related point:
When I stop to help in an emergency situation, I stop and park a reasonable distance beyond the scene, not behind the scene.
Ordinarily that allows me to drive away in due time -- without my having become blocked by the collection of emergency vehicles gathered around the immediate scene.
About 1996 or -97, while Marda and I drove our own E truck under lease to Roberts Express, one night I drove in a moderate rainstorm while southbound on I-77 on the WV Turnpike.
A rookie superdriver on an 18-wheel flatbed rig apparently felt a need to show the world how fast he could drive in rain on the hills and curves of West Virginia.
He passed me in a flash.
Only a few miles down the pike we rounded yet another curve and suddenly caught up with him and the same rig -- lying on its left side on the right shoulder -- with his load of steel pipe (relatively small pipe, fortunately for us) spilled across the traffic lanes.
I parked beyond the scene, then both Marda and I approached the wrecked tractor.
The superdriver was unharmed but very frightened.
Shortly a bear arrived.
I spoke briefly with him.
Then Marda and I resumed rolling -- with nothing blocking us.
Best wishes to all,
Doc.
Most carriers -- that is, most of those who use the time method -- call for at least four seconds.
Some carriers ask for five or six seconds.
I try hard -- and I have taught Marda -- to maintain a following distance of at least four seconds -- even in good weather -- more in bad weather.
To measure my cushion, when the tail of the next vehicle ahead passes a certain point on the road, I start counting ("one thousand, two thousand, three thousand, ...") -- until the nose of my truck reaches the same point.
If I have not allowed at least four seconds, then I ease up a tad and back off a tad.
One related point:
When I stop to help in an emergency situation, I stop and park a reasonable distance beyond the scene, not behind the scene.
Ordinarily that allows me to drive away in due time -- without my having become blocked by the collection of emergency vehicles gathered around the immediate scene.
About 1996 or -97, while Marda and I drove our own E truck under lease to Roberts Express, one night I drove in a moderate rainstorm while southbound on I-77 on the WV Turnpike.
A rookie superdriver on an 18-wheel flatbed rig apparently felt a need to show the world how fast he could drive in rain on the hills and curves of West Virginia.
He passed me in a flash.
Only a few miles down the pike we rounded yet another curve and suddenly caught up with him and the same rig -- lying on its left side on the right shoulder -- with his load of steel pipe (relatively small pipe, fortunately for us) spilled across the traffic lanes.
I parked beyond the scene, then both Marda and I approached the wrecked tractor.
The superdriver was unharmed but very frightened.
Shortly a bear arrived.
I spoke briefly with him.
Then Marda and I resumed rolling -- with nothing blocking us.
Best wishes to all,
Doc.
Insurance company investigators that interviewed me about the accident provided additional information.
1. The car driver continues to state that he is uninjured and allright.
2. The car was a company car. The driver was on his way home to Ohio when the accident occured. The truck was not damaged enough to keep it off the road. The truck driver gave the car driver a free ride home from the accident scene.
3. The car driver stated that he made an abrubt lane change from left lane to right lane to avoid the deer, which placed the car immediately in front of the truck before the car driver slammed on his brakes.
In my initial post, I said, "You are under load, proceeding at the speed limit, 65 MPH, in the right lane. Without warning, a full-grown deer, runs full speed up out of the median, across the left lane and in front of the car that is in front of you. The car has a single occupant, the driver, a male about age 30. He stomps on his brakes, but too late to avoid hitting the deer. You stomp on your brakes, but too late to avoid hitting the car."
That is what I saw. My eyes were on the deer coming across the southbound freeway lanes, then the median, then up onto the northbound lanes and in front of the car and truck in question. I did not know the car in front of the truck made an abrubt lane change before getting hit by the truck. My eyes were on the deer as I slowed down to stay well clear of whatever was about to happen. Looks like the truck driver is off the hook on this one. There was no way he could avoid the accident but his skid marks show he tried to avoid it just the same.
1. The car driver continues to state that he is uninjured and allright.
2. The car was a company car. The driver was on his way home to Ohio when the accident occured. The truck was not damaged enough to keep it off the road. The truck driver gave the car driver a free ride home from the accident scene.
3. The car driver stated that he made an abrubt lane change from left lane to right lane to avoid the deer, which placed the car immediately in front of the truck before the car driver slammed on his brakes.
In my initial post, I said, "You are under load, proceeding at the speed limit, 65 MPH, in the right lane. Without warning, a full-grown deer, runs full speed up out of the median, across the left lane and in front of the car that is in front of you. The car has a single occupant, the driver, a male about age 30. He stomps on his brakes, but too late to avoid hitting the deer. You stomp on your brakes, but too late to avoid hitting the car."
That is what I saw. My eyes were on the deer coming across the southbound freeway lanes, then the median, then up onto the northbound lanes and in front of the car and truck in question. I did not know the car in front of the truck made an abrubt lane change before getting hit by the truck. My eyes were on the deer as I slowed down to stay well clear of whatever was about to happen. Looks like the truck driver is off the hook on this one. There was no way he could avoid the accident but his skid marks show he tried to avoid it just the same.
A great example of why witnesses will give conflicting accounts of an incident. In the few seconds it takes for something like this to happen we can observe and process only so much.