Are you an employee?

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
Are you a employee if the company you want to lease on with makes you get a DOT physical at there home office? Dot regs says you must get a physical but it does not say you have to get it at the carrier your leased on with. A few companies are making drivers come to there office to see a Dr that just looks for every reason to find a way to fail the driver. The IRS says that this makes the driver a employee not a contractor. Go to this site. The carriers that are doing this are really making drivers employees.

Check it out on Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
This is one of the most complicated question in the Expedite market ,and transportation in general .
the provided link ,is a good source .unfortunately ,the IRS code is WAY more complicated then what it say on their own website .
the IRS regulation have 20 cratiria's to determine an Employee/contractor statues ,those crateria's are divided to 3 groups .
this issue is ,and have being for years ,a statues of interpenetration ,and you will probably won't find 2 CPA's that will give you only one answer .
however ,i donot see how DOT exam ,can swing the vote one way or another,as there is no specific ruling within the IRS code for transportation .
now if one will move it to the right forum ,it might get Frank's attention...
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
This is only just ONE of many places to look at .
as stated ,there are many more ! and it is matter of interpenetration ,it should be a part of any driver/Owner/Carrier - contract .
that's why we continuously recommend consulting with a CPA and a local lawyer before signing a contract. :


Employee or Independent Contractor

a quick guide



Employee


Independent Contractor

1. Instructions
Employees comply with instructions about when, where, and how work is to be performed.
* Contractors set their own hours and do the job in their own way.

2. Training
Employees are trained to perform services in a particular way. They are required to take correspondence courses and attend meetings. Other methods also indicate that the employer wants the services performed in a particular way.
* Contractors use their own methods and receive no training from the purchaser of their services.

3. Integration
Services of an employee are merged into the business. Success and continuation of the business depends upon these services. The employer coordinates work with that of others.
* The success and continuation of the business aren’t dependent on services provided by a contractor.

4. Services Rendered Personally
Services must be rendered personally. An employee does not engage other people to do the work.
* Contractors are able to assign their own workers to do the job.
5. Hiring, Supervising, Paying
An employee hires, supervises and pays workers at the direction of the employer (i.e.: acts as foreman or representative of the employer).
* Contractors hire, supervise and pay the other workers as the result of a contract. A contractor agrees to provide materials and labor and is responsible for the results.

6. Continuing Relationship
An employee continues to work for the same person year after year.
* Contractors are hired to do one job. There is no continuous relationship.

7. Set Hours of Work
An employee’s hours and days are set by the employer.
* Contractors are masters of their own time.

8. Full Time Required
An employee normally works full time for an employer.
* Contractors are free to work when and for whom they choose.

9. Doing Work on Employer’s Premises
Employees work on the premises of an employer; or on a route, or at a site, designated by the employer.
* Contractors work off an employer’s premises and use their own offices, desks, and telephones.

10. Order or Sequence Set
An employee performs services in the order or sequence set by the employer. Salespersons report to the office at specified times, follow-up on leads, and perform certain tasks at certain times.
* Services are performed at a contractors own pace. Salespersons work their own schedules and usually have their own offices.

11. Oral or Written Reports
Employees are required to submit regular oral or written reports to the employer.
* Contractors submit no reports.

12. Payment by Hour, Week, Month
Employees are paid by the employer in regular amounts at stated intervals.
* A contractor is paid by the job on a straight commission.

13. Payment of Business and/or Travel Expenses
The employer pays employees’ business and/or travel expenses.
* Contractors take care of their own expenses and are accountable only to themselves for expenses.

14. Furnishing of Tools, Materials
An employer furnishes tools, materials, etc.
* Contractors furnish their own tools, etc.

15. Significant Investment
An employee has no significant investment in the facilities used to perform services.
* A contractor has a real, essential and significant investment.

16. Realization of Profit or Loss
An employee cannot realize a profit or loss by making good or bad decisions.
* Contractors can realize a profit or suffer a loss as a result of their services or decisions.

17. Working for More than One Firm at a Time
An employee usually works for one employer at a time.
* An independent contractor works for a number of persons or firms at the same time.

18. Making Services Available to the General Public
An employee does not make services available to the general public.
* Contractors have their own offices and assistants. The hold business licenses, are listed in business directories, maintain business telephones, and otherwise generally make their services available to the public.

19. Right to Fire
An employee can be discharged at any time.
* Contractors cannot be fired so long as product results meet contract specifications.

20. Right to Quit
Employees can quit their jobs at any time without incurring liability.
* Contractors agree to complete a specific job and are responsible for satisfactory completion; or they are legally obligated to make good for any failure.

Above Summary is reprinted from IRS Tax Facts
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
This is one of the most complicated question in the Expedite market ,and transportation in general .
the provided link ,is a good source .unfortunately ,the IRS code is WAY more complicated then what it say on their own website .
the IRS regulation have 20 cratiria's to determine an Employee/contractor statues ,those crateria's are divided to 3 groups .
this issue is ,and have being for years ,a statues of interpenetration ,and you will probably won't find 2 CPA's that will give you only one answer .
however ,i donot see how DOT exam ,can swing the vote one way or another,as there is no specific ruling within the IRS code for transportation .
now if one will move it to the right forum ,it might get Frank's attention...

My thing is being forced to do a DOT exam at there office. When DOT says you can have any DOT Doctor do it.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Other than for treatment under Worker's Compensation, I'm not sure even an employer can dictate which physician you must see, for a physical or anything else. You may choose to see a company doctor if you wish, but you can choose your own doctor. The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Affordable Care Act), A.K.A. the “Patients’ Bill of Rights" specifies this quite clearly. Note that it's protections for employees and not contractors, but independent contractors have less control over them than do employees.

If a carrier is forcing people to use a doctor of their choosing, not only are they blurring the line of employee/contractor, but are skating on thin legal ice, as well.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I have been through this a few times and even in court and dealt with the DoL, it is not an IRS issue, it is a labor issue. The IRS uses their 21 points to determine who is paying what taxes but under the Labor laws is where it is all defined and it is the Department of Labor who actually enforce those laws. They do use the IRS points and interpret them for their own use.

Are you a employee if the company you want to lease on with makes you get a DOT physical at there home office?

Yes the company can require you to use their faclities but need to justify it.

Dot regs says you must get a physical but it does not say you have to get it at the carrier your leased on with.

True, they don't define who does it other than a medical professional i.e. MD or DO.

A few companies are making drivers come to there office to see a Dr that just looks for every reason to find a way to fail the driver.

If this is the case, then there is a process for the driver to complain about it to the state who oversees the doctors and possibly a liablity to the company.

The IRS says that this makes the driver a employee not a contractor.

Nope it doesn't.

The driver is hired to do a job, fill a need and use their licensed knowledge to safely deliver freight. If the company tells the driver how to drive, what route to use, how to secure the freight and so on, then their licensed knowledge is no required.

BUT if the company is making a call to have a uniformed DOT physical to ensure safety, following suggested and preliminary guidelines, training drivers in company policies, certifying drivers under different customer/federal requirements as in Hazmat or A&E then it is not a case where they are forcing drivers to become employees by any means.

However there are issues with acceptance rates and how they are used to terminate contracts. The same goes for in and out of service percentages and revenue level generation - all which could be construed as an employee performance metric.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Folks are confusing two different issues.

A entrance by someone new isn't bound by the same guidelines that a existing person with a lease or a employment agreement are.

At the time a carrier demands a physical PRIOR to signing a lease agreement, you are on their terms until you satisfy the carriers requirements. It has to meet DOT requirements, but they have all rights to exceed them prior to any agreement. At that time, you aren't contracted to them. After you are with the carrier, you will notice you don't see their doctor unless you request it, but one that is certified to do a DOT license.
There is a reason for that. Most surrounding liability issues.
As for someone being new, the employer can set all kinds of guidelines for new hires. Could be required physicals drug tests, age, or a non smoker for example. Non are legally required for most jobs or contracts.
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
Folks are confusing two different issues.

A entrance by someone new isn't bound by the same guidelines that a existing person with a lease or a employment agreement are.

At the time a carrier demands a physical PRIOR to signing a lease agreement, you are on their terms until you satisfy the carriers requirements. It has to meet DOT requirements, but they have all rights to exceed them prior to any agreement. At that time, you aren't contracted to them. After you are with the carrier, you will notice you don't see their doctor unless you request it, but one that is certified to do a DOT license.
There is a reason for that. Most surrounding liability issues.
As for someone being new, the employer can set all kinds of guidelines for new hires. Could be required physicals drug tests, age, or a non smoker for example. Non are legally required for most jobs or contracts.

Yes, Dave I understand what you and Greg are saying. The drivers don't have a lease with the carriers the truck owners do. If a contractor driver that has a DOT Exam and is cleared by a DOT Doctor. Why should the driver be forced to take another one? When the one they have is from a DOT Doctor is only 2 weeks old. Then tell the driver because his neck is 17 inchs so you need a costly sleep study within 90 days. Now I can see if the driver is a big guy. But a skinny driver, come on.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I understand and sympathize with what you are saying. You as the fleet owner have a contract with the carrier. The new person does not. As for a profit center? You bet. They charge more than a outside physician does.
 
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Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
The way it reads in the DOT regs says nothing about a carrier may impose their own regs execept to employees. I have Sub-contractors not employees. I just don't want other things to come out of this.

Read this and you may undertand what was asked to me today.

Medical Advisory Criteria for Evaluation Under 49CFRPart391.41
Print
Note Unlike regulations which are codified and have a statutory base, the recommendations in this advisory are simply guidance established to help the medical examiner determine a driver's medical qualifications pursuant to Section 391.41 of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSRs). The Office of Motor Carrier Research and Standards routinely sends copies of these guidelines to medical examiners to assist them in making an evaluation. The medical examiner may, but is not required to, accept the recommendations. Section 390.3(d) of the FMCSRs allows employers to have more stringent medical requirements.

391.41(b)(1)

A person is physically qualified to drive a commercial motor vehicle if that person:

Has no loss of a foot, leg, hand, or arm, or has been granted a Skill Performance Evaluation (SPE) Certificate pursuant to Section 391.49. and

391.41(b)(2)

A person is physically qualified to drive a commercial motor vehicle if that person has no impairment of:

(i) A hand or finger which interferes with prehension or power grasping.

(ii) An arm, foot, or leg which interferes with the ability to perform normal tasks associated with operating a commercial motor vehicle.

(iii) Any other significant limb defect or limitation which interferes with the ability to perform normal tasks associated with operating a commercial motor vehicle.

(iv) Has been granted a Skill Performance Evaluation (SPE) certificate pursuant to Section 391.49.

A person who suffers loss of a foot, leg, hand or arm or whose limb impairment in any way interferes with the safe performance of normal tasks associated with operating a commercial motor vehicle is subject to the SPE Certification Program pursuant to Section 391.49, assuming the person is otherwise qualified.

With the advancement of technology, medical aids and equipment, modifications have been developed to compensate for certain disabilities. The SPE Certification Program (formerly the Limb Waiver Program) was designed to allow persons with the loss of a foot or limb or with functional impairment to qualify under the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSRs) by use of prosthetic devices or equipment modifications which enable them to safely operate a commercial motor vehicle. Since there are no medical aids equivalent to the original body or limb, certain risks are still present, and thus restrictions may be included on individual SPE certificates when a State Director for the FMCSA determines they are necessary to be consistent with safety and public interest.

If the driver is found otherwise medically qualified (391.41(b)(3) through (13)), the medical examiner must check on the medical certificate that the driver is qualified only if accompanied by a SPE certificate. The driver and the employing motor carrier are subject to appropriate penalty if the driver operates a motor vehicle in interstate or foreign commerce without a current SPE certificate for his/her physical disability.

391.41(b)(3)

A person is physically qualified to drive a commercial motor vehicle if that person:

Has no established medical history or clinical diagnosis of diabetes mellitus currently requiring insulin for control.

Diabetes mellitus is a disease which, on occasion, can result in a loss of consciousness or disorientation in time and space. Individuals who require insulin for control have conditions which can get out of control by the use of too much or too little insulin, or food intake not consistent with the insulin dosage. Incapacitation may occur from symptoms of hyperglycemic or hypoglycemic reactions (drowsiness, semiconsciousness, diabetic coma, or insulin shock).

The administration of insulin is within itself, a complicated process requiring insulin, syringe, needle, alcohol sponge and a sterile technique. Factors related to long-haul commercial motor vehicle operations such as fatigue, lack of sleep, poor diet, emotional conditions, stress, and concomitant illness, compound the diabetic problem. Because of these inherent dangers, the FMCSA has consistently held that a diabetic who uses insulin for control does not meet the minimum physical requirements of the FMCSRs.

Hypoglycemic drugs, taken orally, are sometimes prescribed for diabetic individuals to help stimulate natural body production of insulin. If the condition can be controlled by the use of oral medication and diet, then an individual may be qualified under the present rule.

See Conference Report on Diabetic Disorders and Commercial Drivers and Insulin-Using Commercial Motor Vehicle Drivers at: Rules & Regulations - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

391.41(b)(4)

A person is physically qualified to drive a commercial motor vehicle if that person:

Has no current clinical diagnosis of myocardial infarction, angina pectoris, coronary insufficiency, thrombosis.

or

Any other cardiovascular disease of a variety known to be accompanied by syncope, dyspnea, collapse, or congestive cardiac failure.

The term "has no current clinical diagnosis of" is specifically designed to encompass, (1) a current cardiovascular condition; or (2) a cardiovascular condition which has not fully stabilized regardless of the time limit. The term "known to be accompanied by" is designed to include a clinical diagnosis of a cardiovascular disease (1) which is accompanied by symptoms of syncope, dyspnea, collapse, or congestive cardiac failure; and or (2) which is likely to cause syncope, dyspnea, collapse, or congestive cardiac failure.

It is the intent of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations to render unqualified, a driver who has a current cardiovascular disease which is accompanied by and/or likely to cause symptoms of syncope, dyspnea, collapse, or congestive cardiac failure. However, the subjective decision of whether the nature and severity of an individual's condition will likely cause symptoms of cardiovascular insufficiency is on an individual basis and qualification rests with the medical examiner and the motor carrier. In those cases where there is an occurrence of cardiovascular insufficiency (myocardial infarction, thrombosis, etc.), it is suggested that, before a driver is certified, he/she have a normal resting and stress ECG, no residual complications, no physical limitations, and is taking no medication likely to interfere with safe driving.

Coronary artery bypass surgery and pacemaker implantation are remedial procedures and thus not unqualifying. Implantable cardioverter defibrillators are disqualifying due to risk of syncope. Coumadin is a medical treatment which can improve the health and safety of the driver and should not, by its use, medically disqualify the commercial driver. The emphasis should be on the underlying medical condition(s) which require treatment and the general health of the driver. FMCSA should be contacted at (202) 366-1790 for additional recommendations regarding the physical qualification of drivers on coumadin.

(See Cardiovascular Advisory Panel Guidelines for the Medical Examination of Commercial Motor Vehicle Drivers at: Rules & Regulations - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration)

391.41(b)(5)

A person is physically qualified to drive a commercial motor vehicle if that person:

Has no established medical history or clinical diagnosis of a respiratory dysfunction likely to interfere with the ability to control and drive a commercial motor vehicle safely.

Since a driver must be alert at all times, any change in his or her mental state is in direct conflict with highway safety. Even the slightest impairment in respiratory function under emergency conditions (when greater oxygen supply is necessary for performance) may be detrimental to safe driving.

There are many conditions that interfere with oxygen exchange and may result in incapacitation, including emphysema, chronic asthma, carcinoma, tuberculosis, chronic bronchitis and sleep apnea. If the medical examiner detects a respiratory dysfunction, that in any way is likely to interfere with the driver's ability to safely control and drive a commercial motor vehicle, the driver must be referred to a specialist for further evaluation and therapy.

Anticoagulation therapy for deep vein thrombosis and/or pulmonary thromboembolism is not unqualifying once optimum dose is achieved, provided lower extremity venous examinations remain normal and the treating physician gives a favorable recommendation.

See Conference on Pulmonary/Respiratory Disorders and Commercial Drivers at: Rules & Regulations - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

391.41(b)(6)

A person is physically qualified to drive a commercial motor vehicle if that person:

Has no current clinical diagnosis of high blood pressure likely to interfere with the ability to operate a commercial motor vehicle safely.

Hypertension alone is unlikely to cause sudden collapse; however, the likelihood increases when target organ damage, particularly cerebral vascular disease is present. This advisory criteria is based on FMCSA's Cardiovascular Advisory Guidelines for the Examination of CMV Drivers, which used the Sixth Report of the Joint National Committee on Prevention, Detection, Evaluation, and Treatment of High Blood Pressure (1997).

Stage 1 hypertension corresponds to a systolic BP of 140-159 mmHg and/or a diastolic BP of 90-99 mmHg. The driver with a BP in this range is at low risk for hypertension-related acute incapacitation and may be medically certified to drive for a one-year period. Certification examinations should be done annually thereafter and should be at or less than 140/90. If less than 160/100, certification may be extended one time for three months.

A blood pressure of 160-179 systolic and/or 100-109 diastolic is considered Stage 2 hypertension, and the driver is not necessarily unqualified during evaluation and institution of treatment. The driver is given a one time certification of three months to reduce his or her blood pressure to less than or equal to 140/90. A blood pressure in this range is an absolute indication for antihypertensive drug therapy. Provided treatment is well tolerated and the driver demonstrates a BP value of 140/90 or less, he or she may be certified for one year from the date of the initial exam. The driver is certified annually thereafter.

A blood pressure at or greater than 180 (systolic) and 110 (diastolic) is considered Stage 3, high risk for an acute BP-related event. The driver may not be qualified, even temporarily, until reduced to equal to or less than 140/90 and treatment is well tolerated. The driver may be certified for 6 months and biannually (every 6 months) thereafter if at recheck BP is equal to or less than 140/90.

Annual recertification is recommended if the medical examiner does not know the severity of hypertension prior to treatment.

An elevated blood pressure finding should be confirmed by at least two subsequent measurements on different days.

Treatment includes non-pharmacologic and pharmacologic modalities as well as counseling to reduce other risk factors. Most antihypertensive medications also have side effects, the importance of which must be judged on an individual basis. Individuals must be alerted to the hazards of these medications while driving. Side effects of somnolence or syncope are particularly undesirable in commercial drivers.

Secondary hypertension is based on the above stages.

Evaluation is warranted if patient is persistently hypertensive on maximal or near-maximal doses of 2-3 pharmacologic agents. Some causes of secondary hypertension may be amenable to surgical intervention or specific pharmacologic therapy. (See Cardiovascular Advisory Panel Guidelines for the Medical Examination of Commercial Motor Vehicle Drivers at: Rules & Regulations - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration)

GUIDELINES FOR BLOOD PRESSURE EVALUATION

Reading Category Expiration Date Recertification
140-159/90-99 Stage 1 1 year 1 year if £140/90.
One-time certificate for 3 months if 140-159/90-99.
160-179/100-109 Stage 2 One-time certificate for 3 months. 1 year from date of exam if £140/90.
³180/110 Stage 3 Disqualified 6 months from date of exam if £140/90, then every 6 months if £140/90.

Driver qualified if £140/90.

A person is physically qualified to drive a commercial motor vehicle if that person:

Has no established medical history or clinical diagnosis of a rheumatic, arthritic, orthopedic, muscular, neuromuscular or vascular disease which interferes with the ability to control and operate a commercial motor vehicle.

Certain diseases are known to have acute episodes of transient muscle weakness, poor muscular coordination (ataxia), abnormal sensations (paresthesia), decreased muscle tone (hypotonia), visual disturbances and pain which may be suddenly incapacitating. With each recurring episode, these symptoms may become more pronounced and remain for longer periods of time. Other diseases have more insidious onsets and display symptoms of muscle wasting (atrophy), swelling and paresthesia which may not suddenly incapacitate a person but may restrict his/her movements and eventually interfere with the ability to safely operate a motor vehicle. In many instances these diseases are degenerative in nature or may result in deterioration of the involved area.

Once the individual has been diagnosed as having a rheumatic, arthritic, orthopedic, muscular, neuromuscular or vascular disease, then he/she has an established history of that disease. The physician, when examining an individual, should consider the following:

(1) The nature and severity of the individual's condition (such as sensory loss or loss of strength;

(2) The degree of limitation present (such as range of motion;

(3) The likelihood of progressive limitation (not always present initially but manifest itself over time;

(4) The likelihood of sudden incapacitation.

If severe functional impairment exists, the driver does not qualify. In cases where more frequent monitoring is required, a certificate for a shorter period of time may be issued.

See Conference on Neurological Disorders and Commercial Drivers at: http://www.dot.gov/rulesregs/medreports.htm

391.41(b)(8)

A person is physically qualified to drive a commercial motor vehicle if that person:

Has no established medical history or clinical diagnosis of epilepsy;

or

Any other condition which is likely to cause the loss of consciousness, or any loss of ability to control a commercial motor vehicle.

Epilepsy is a chronic functional disease characterized by seizures or episodes that occur without warning, resulting in loss of voluntary control which may lead to loss of consciousness and/or seizures. Therefore, the following drivers cannot be qualified:

(1) a driver who has a medical history of epilepsy;
(2) a driver who has a current clinical diagnosis of epilepsy; or
(3) a driver who is taking antiseizure medication.

If an individual has had a sudden episode of a nonepileptic seizure or loss of consciousness of unknown cause which did not require antiseizure medication, the decision as to whether that person's condition will likely cause the loss of consciousness or loss of ability to control a commercial motor vehicle is made on an individual basis by the medical examiner in consultation with the treating physician. Before certification is considered, it is suggested that a 6-month waiting period elapse from the time of the episode. Following the waiting period, it is suggested that the individual have a complete neurological examination. If the results of the examination are negative and antiseizure medication is not required, then the driver may be qualified.

In those individual cases where a driver had a seizure or an episode of loss of consciousness that resulted from a known medical condition (e.g., drug reaction, high temperature, acute infectious disease, dehydration, or acute metabolic disturbance), certification should be deferred until the driver has fully recovered from that condition, has no existing residual complications, and is not taking antiseizure medication.

Drivers with a history of epilepsy/seizures off antiseizure medication and seizure-free for 10 years may be qualified to operate a CMV in interstate commerce. Interstate drivers with a history of a single unprovoked seizure may be qualified to drive a CMV in interstate commerce if seizure-free and off antiseizure medication for a 5-year period or more.

See Conference on Neurological Disorders and Commercial Drivers at: Rules & Regulations - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

391.41(b)(9)

A person is physically qualified to drive a commercial motor vehicle if that person:

Has no mental, nervous, organic, or functional disease or psychiatric disorder likely to interfere with the driver's ability to drive a commercial motor vehicle safely.

Emotional or adjustment problems contribute directly to an individual's level of memory, reasoning, attention, and judgment. These problems often underlie physical disorders. A variety of functional disorders can cause drowsiness, dizziness, confusion, weakness, or paralysis that may lead to incoordination, inattention, loss of functional control and susceptibility to crashes while driving. Physical fatigue, headache, impaired coordination, recurring physical ailments, and chronic "nagging" pain may be present to such a degree that certification for commercial driving is inadvisable. Somatic and psychosomatic complaints should be thoroughly examined when determining an individual's overall fitness to drive. Disorders of a periodically incapacitating nature, even in the early stages of development, may warrant disqualification.

Many bus and truck drivers have documented that "nervous trouble" related to neurotic, personality, emotional or adjustment problems is responsible for a significant fraction of their preventable crashes. The degree to which an individual is able to appreciate, evaluate and adequately respond to environmental strain and emotional stress is critical when assessing an individual's mental alertness and flexibility to cope with the stresses of commercial motor vehicle driving.

When examining the driver, it should be kept in mind that individuals who live under chronic emotional upsets may have deeply ingrained maladaptive or erratic behavior patterns. Excessively antagonistic, instinctive, impulsive, openly aggressive, paranoid or severely depressed behavior greatly interfere with the driver's ability to drive safely. Those individuals who are highly susceptible to frequent states of emotional instability (schizophrenia, affective psychoses, paranoia, anxiety or depressive neurosis) may warrant disqualification.

Careful consideration should be given to the side effects and interactions of medications in the overall qualification determination. See Psychiatric Conference Report for specific recommendations on the use of these medications and potential hazards for driving.
 
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Dynamite 1

Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
i understand your frustration with the process and what has been stated by greg/dave are exactly correct. the other thing to keep in mind is nobody is forcing you or your drivers to do this. the whole thing is about choice and as long as you have one nothing else matters till a contract is signed or you are hired as an employee. you dont have to choose to work or contract with anyone but should you choose to they can make you do just about anything they want under their company hiring or contracting policies. its not about being an employee or contractor it about prequalification and companies can require most anything. you have to choose if you are willing to comply. it is frustrating though.
 

moose

Veteran Expediter
Something fishy going on .
by the above quoting ,and the OP ,it seams like your driver had a valid medical card ,and then the Cat Doc. failed him for some medical rezone .
that's why in the Carrier applications ,and most contract ,it's ask : 'did you ever failed a DOT exam ,and why'

why of earth would you wish to be in business with this guy ?

frankly ,i don't see any deference between random drug tasting (!), random DOT fiscal ,road side inspection ,scalehouses ,and so on .
drivers needs to be fit to drive at all times.
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
Something fishy going on .
by the above quoting ,and the OP ,it seams like your driver had a valid medical card ,and then the Cat Doc. failed him for some medical rezone .
that's why in the Carrier applications ,and most contract ,it's ask : 'did you ever failed a DOT exam ,and why'

why of earth would you wish to be in business with this guy ?

frankly ,i don't see any deference between random drug tasting (!), random DOT fiscal ,road side inspection ,scalehouses ,and so on .
drivers needs to be fit to drive at all times.

moose it's been more than one driver. 11 different drivers that we have hired over the last two years. I can see maybe one, but 11 different drivers.
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
Dave,
You talk to your lawyer about possible ethic issues on the part of the doctor?

Just want to see the rules followed that are in place for non employees. Employers may ask for more on a DOT Exam, but we are not employees we are contractors and I want to keep it that way if you know what I'm talking about.
 

Brisco

Expert Expediter
Here is an interesting article about DOT Physicals I read just a couple of weeks ago:

Truckers' 'bogus' checks bring danger to roads - Travel - msnbc.com

My opinion, if it's the CAT you're having problems with when it concerns your DOT physical, maybe the CAT is just trying to cover their ashes when it comes to making sure their drivers are fit to drive for them whether it be on a Contractor basis or as an Employee.

Too many drivers out there that were not fit to drive HAVE printed out their own DOT long forms and med cards, filled them out themselves, and then presented them to the companies they are driving for/contracting with as legitimate DOT physicals.

If it's a company policy to see their own DOT Doc, then that policy is probably in play to protect themselves, not you. Has NOTHING to do with IRS codes/regs, period.

So, Yes, you do have a choice. First one being, abide by their policies to obtain work as a "Contractor" with them. Or two, seek "Contract" work elsewhere. Know what I mean.
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
Bruno, Ya gotta understand that as long as you are NOT the man....as in CARRIER owner, you will always be an employee of some sorts. But, ya gotta understand also that....THE man is somewhat an EMPLOYEE of the customer. The unfairness of it all just never, never ends.
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Right or wrong I can completely understand the carriers side of this. You see people at every truck stop that I promise you could never pass a legit physical. They find a yes man for for a doctor or dr. shop until they pass the physical. They begin driving have an accident and the carrier along with everyone else gets sued. In discovery they find the shady dr story and the settlement skyrockets. I do not blame the carrier one bit for using their own dr.

As mentioned before you have a choice whether or not to sign on with that carrier so you are not being forced to see their physician.
 

Bruno

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
US Marines
Being a big guy that can pass any Dot Exam. I have a great stats, BP 112/59 heart is great and just got a clean bill of heath. The doctor just said I need to lose some weight before I do have heath problems. The problem is a carrier trying to ask drivers to do things that is not in the DOT regs. Carriers can only do that with EMPLOYEES. Read the FMCSR 391.41 and you will understand. Asking a guy to het a sleep study because he has a 17 inch neck is uncalled for.
 
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