ldb, panther is at the 15 mpg mark arent they.
Are rates for the truck or the load?
- Thread starter CharlesD
- Start date
The above numbers come directly from the Panther DriverWeb Website and are current as of the time I posted them. They were posted to the DriverWeb at 1/20/2011 8:13:46 AM
$3.33 - $1.25 = $2.08
$2.08 divided by .19 cents a mile is 10.947 MPG, which when rounded up becomes 11 MPG.
Conversely, $2.08 divided by 11 MPG yields 18.9090909, which rounded up becomes 19 cents per mile.
Panther may very well be at 15, I don't know for sure. All I know for sure is, they input 11 into the calculator when they figure the FSC.
$3.33 - $1.25 = $2.08
$2.08 divided by .19 cents a mile is 10.947 MPG, which when rounded up becomes 11 MPG.
Conversely, $2.08 divided by 11 MPG yields 18.9090909, which rounded up becomes 19 cents per mile.
Panther may very well be at 15, I don't know for sure. All I know for sure is, they input 11 into the calculator when they figure the FSC.
turtle, do you know if panther pull their natl. avg from the eia website or somewhere else . the natl. avg. from eia for 1/18 - 1/25 is 3.407
They use the EIA Website, but it's always for the previous week's average, good or bad. Last week the EIA average was $3.33. It's currently $3.407, and that's what Panther will use beginning next Tuesday, even if the EIA average next week is lower.
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
When Panther or Tri-State quotes you a rate for a run do they include the FSC in the load? Another words making the rate lower??
Just curious if this is just a broker deal or if the company's are also doing it.
Panther has a contracted rate per mile with its contractors. If the contracted rate for a cargo van is 77 cents, then that's what it is. The load offer will state your contracted rate, and it will also state what the FSC is for the load. If the FSC for the load is 19 cents, then the load pays 19 cents plus your contracted rate of 77 cents, for a total of 96 cents per mile.
New van contracts at Panther are 70 cents a mile (74 if you have a HAZMAT endorsement, or maybe it's if you go to Canada, I'm not sure which - the later makes more sense, but I've been told the former by three different people), and most are on the structured FSC. So a van that gets 70 cents per mile will gt that, plus the 19 cent structured FSC, for a total of 89 cents per mile.
My contract is at 77 cents, and I'm not on the structured FSC. My loads are at 77 cents, plus a variable FSC, which could be anywhere from 12 to 34 cents per mile. Overall the variable FSC ends up being 1-3 cents on the average more than the structured FSC.
I have no idea. I don't know what "it" is. A lot of loads that Panther books are off bid boards where they are all-inclusive bids, where it's X-dollars for the load. For those loads, Panther artificially breaks out the contracted rate and the FSC and presents them like normal with the load offer. If they bid a load that they're going to pay me 95 cents to run, the load offer comes across as 77 cents plus an 18 cent FSC.Just curious if this is just a broker deal or if the company's are also doing it.
The downside to a contracted flat rate is there are certainly loads that pay Panther a lot of money, and my cut isn't anywhere near 60% (or whatever), but the upside is that I know I've run loads where if I were on a percentage there is no way I could afford to take the load. I've run loads for 90 cents where Panther got paid 95 cents. I've also run loads where Panther made one dollar total on the load.
It all works out in the end.
Charles, I sympathize with you.
You are between a rock and a hard place.
It can be so hard to keep everyone happy and not have them think you are screwing them when in fact you are trying to help them by trying to keep them busy. Then if you don't offer them the loads at all because you know they will not run for the regular cargo van rate, they will then think you are trying to screw them by not keeping them busy.
Myself personally, if I didn't want to do the load I would just turn it down, however because my situation could change from day to day, I would still want to be offered the regular cargo van load runs as well, as what I might turn down today, I might not turn down tommorow, if I needed to get closer to home or a better freight area or whatever. So why would I want to limit my options?
I believe that the rate should reflect three things.
a) it's urgency
b) what size of vehicle it will fit on.
c) special handling requirements
I would not and neither should anyone else expect a higher rate based on the vehicle they are driving. The rate should indeed reflect what vehicle the freight will fit in. If I am driving a cube or straight, and decide to take a regular van load, I should expect to get the van rate. Some people have an attitude, and that attitude definitely seems to inflate exponentially based on the size of vehicle they drive.
Yes we all know the costs involved to operate each class of vehicle and as was mentioned, if they don't like it they should just turn it down. But I know as a business person myself, I would still want the option of making that decision to take it or wait based on any number of factors in play at that time, but I shouldn't feel insulted for being offered it, nor should you feel guilty for offering it.
Some people are born complainers and think the world owes them a living, and quite honestly, since the barrier to entry in this business is quite low, that is unfortunately the type of people it will sometimes attract.
Charles, I don't know you personally but I have read enough of your posts on here to know that I believe you operate your business professionally, and do try and keep everyone happy.
I'm sure you try and communicate with them as professionally as possible, but maybe you might want to "educate" them a little more on why the loads are offered the way they are.
I don't mean you have to justify to each o/o on every load, I mean maybe have a general information session for everyone about the how's and why's load offers are the way they are and hopefully it might make a difference in a few of the attitudes.
It sounds like your business is starting to grow to the point where you are becoming a baby sitter!
There is cheap freight, then there is cheap freight relative to what you are driving, and some people apparently don't know the difference.
Best of luck in getting them to understand that.
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After contemplating this a bit more, what is your ratio of cube vans/sprinters loads to regular cargo van loads?
Maybe we can turn this thread into an interesting statistic, and if some of the other carriers chimed in with their ratios as well, then maybe you could go to these guys that are complaining and say "see, that is the industry average of regular loads to oversize/weight loads, so don't expect to get oversize/weight loads every day".
I know it's tough balancing act between being able to service the customer's requirements by having overdimensional capacity available if needed, all the while keeping your contractors happy by ensuring they have enough work at an increased rate to earn a viable living based on those increased costs of operation.
And then on top of that you have to compete against carriers that undercut by not charging the customer for the additional capacity.
Maybe we can turn this thread into an interesting statistic, and if some of the other carriers chimed in with their ratios as well, then maybe you could go to these guys that are complaining and say "see, that is the industry average of regular loads to oversize/weight loads, so don't expect to get oversize/weight loads every day".
I know it's tough balancing act between being able to service the customer's requirements by having overdimensional capacity available if needed, all the while keeping your contractors happy by ensuring they have enough work at an increased rate to earn a viable living based on those increased costs of operation.
And then on top of that you have to compete against carriers that undercut by not charging the customer for the additional capacity.
nightcreacher
Veteran Expediter
Each size unit at TRI STATE gets it's own rate.I'm not sure how tha FSC is figured,but it mostly depends on the way the contract is set with each company.At FDCC it was alot easier to figure the FSC,but I can tell you,here at TRI STATE,ther have been loads the FSC bought all the fuel.WE get no FSC for empty miles.At FDCC you get FSC for all miles,Which helps if you dead head alot.Everything we do Aat TRI STATE is bsed on what the customer is charged,only variance is sometimes we can get all the dead head instead of giving the 1st 100 miles away.AT FDCC if they would put a straight truck load on a tractor,it would still get the tractor FSC,her it will be a Straight truck FSC.BUT in any case ,it still boils down to the bottom line,what is the total pay for the total miles.FSC or no FSC,if the load pays enough you take it ,if not you don't.
Charles, I sympathize with you.
You are between a rock and a hard place.
It can be so hard to keep everyone happy and not have them think you are screwing them when in fact you are trying to help them by trying to keep them busy. Then if you don't offer them the loads at all because you know they will not run for the regular cargo van rate, they will then think you are trying to screw them by not keeping them busy.
Myself personally, if I didn't want to do the load I would just turn it down, however because my situation could change from day to day, I would still want to be offered the regular cargo van load runs as well, as what I might turn down today, I might not turn down tommorow, if I needed to get closer to home or a better freight area or whatever. So why would I want to limit my options?
I believe that the rate should reflect three things.
a) it's urgency
b) what size of vehicle it will fit on.
c) special handling requirements
I would not and neither should anyone else expect a higher rate based on the vehicle they are driving. The rate should indeed reflect what vehicle the freight will fit in. If I am driving a cube or straight, and decide to take a regular van load, I should expect to get the van rate. Some people have an attitude, and that attitude definitely seems to inflate exponentially based on the size of vehicle they drive.
Yes we all know the costs involved to operate each class of vehicle and as was mentioned, if they don't like it they should just turn it down. But I know as a business person myself, I would still want the option of making that decision to take it or wait based on any number of factors in play at that time, but I shouldn't feel insulted for being offered it, nor should you feel guilty for offering it.
Some people are born complainers and think the world owes them a living, and quite honestly, since the barrier to entry in this business is quite low, that is unfortunately the type of people it will sometimes attract.
Charles, I don't know you personally but I have read enough of your posts on here to know that I believe you operate your business professionally, and do try and keep everyone happy.
I'm sure you try and communicate with them as professionally as possible, but maybe you might want to "educate" them a little more on why the loads are offered the way they are.
I don't mean you have to justify to each o/o on every load, I mean maybe have a general information session for everyone about the how's and why's load offers are the way they are and hopefully it might make a difference in a few of the attitudes.
It sounds like your business is starting to grow to the point where you are becoming a baby sitter!
There is cheap freight, then there is cheap freight relative to what you are driving, and some people apparently don't know the difference.
Best of luck in getting them to understand that.
What many don't really, truly understand or care to understand, is the competition in your business. As a result of your collective "don't wannas", "standards", etc, You are actually cutting of your nose to spite your face. Many shippers alert numerous Companys of an available load. Usually, the very first approved Carrier with acceptable rate range determined by their Transportation Director for that day and load will prevail. Shippers want to move their freight when they want to move it, without playing on the phone or computer for an hour to move a load. The longer you expect dispatch to spend getting your desired rate and destination increases your opportunity to sit enormously. My suggestion to o/o's is give your dispatch a realistic number for rates, be prepared to run what comes up, or, stay on the porch until your required activity is completed. There is just simply, little time to play tag and be successful. I can assure you, you will run a lot more at acceptable rates, and still get the occasional "home run", IF you have confidence in your dispatch, try it. The ME, ME, ME attitude has sunk a lot of Expeditors.
Well said.
I am reminded of something once said by Lawrence McCord: "Expediting does not tolerate a personal agenda."
Just as the rain does not know or care if you get wet, the freight does not know or care what you want.
Success in this business is not about meeting your needs. It is about meeting the needs of the freight and the people who ship it.
nightcreacher
Veteran Expediter
well said Phil
So are you saying take all the freight offered? Or just all the freight that doesn't operate you at a loss?
Thanks!
Christopher
Thanks!
Christopher
RonJonCMC
Seasoned Expediter
So are you saying take all the freight offered? Or just all the freight that doesn't operate you at a loss?
Thanks!
Christopher
That's a good question Road Dawwg. I'd like to see some opinions on that. Personally I have my own, low as I will go threshold and anything lower than that I will run on my own dime. It might be bad business on my behalf, but it's also in keeping with my principals. Just say NO to cheap freight.
Thanks!
Christopher
That's a good question Road Dawwg. I'd like to see some opinions on that. Personally I have my own, low as I will go threshold and anything lower than that I will run on my own dime. It might be bad business on my behalf, but it's also in keeping with my principals. Just say NO to cheap freight.
When supply and demand is in our favor (lack of supply) your chances are better to get your rate for the size truck versus the size of the freight. When it's slower.. the customer will find someone to haul that load at the van rate and it won't take them long to do it. You can offer your option, but you won't get it 98% of the time.
So IMO, you are right to offer your drivers the load. Too bad not many Ops understand what you go through in order to find them freight.