“1)Prior to America invading Iraq (at the time a country that posed no threat to us)there were literaly no terrorists or insurgents.There was a Govenerment that provided basic living conditions for most of the people(working sewers,air conditioning etc.)an a regular basis.
A tyrant he was,but not a threat outside his borders.â€
OK, literally no terrorist or insurgents? Right!
First Tallcal, an insurgent is a person who revolts against civil authority, which in many regards the meaning is well miss placed in the context of Iraq. Terrorist you speak of have always been there and for one thing you and other liberals miss is that we could have stopped a lot of blood shed but that disgusting man, Carter failed us and the true cause of all the blood shed from 1979 to date.
Also about terrorist and something I know you have yet to understand or even experience, is the recruitment of a majority of the common terrorist is not always a religious thing but a problem of being disenfranchised from the society at large – on in another words people of a young age without hope, a path of education or a way to earn a living are more likely to become the terrorist outside of this country.
Have you yet talked to an Iraqi who lived under Saddam and his son’s regime? Most likely not.
Life was not Mercedes and Air conditioning; it was not all running water and indoor plumbing. We have made a lot of improvements to the quality of life over there, especially in health care. Now this does not come from the right wing blogs but rather the people who lived there and returned.
“2)It was not a country that was NOT experiencing suicide bombings everyday,nor was it a hot bed for extremists intent on killing Americans.There were no Americans TO KILL.That changed.
3)This President insisted on stiring up a hornets nest by invading a a Middle Eastern Counrty against the wish's of SOME of us(unpatriotic is how we were charectorized)and created the very problem that exists today.Brave American service people have died or been wounded for one mans demented pipe dream.â€
You know I agree with you on some of this.
The issue of invading Iraq has more to do with the UN and something that I think was really done for a number of reasons; one I really think was the people on our government knew about the oil for food scam that the UN was pulling and this was one way of bringing to the world. There are a lot of other issues that we will never know about and should not know.
Long shot? Yes, but possible.
“4)The world is a far more UNSAFE place as a result of the overthrow of a 2 bit dictator.It was dreamed up by a group of dim witted politicians who fired the Generals who told them they were making a big mistakes.Let the civilians(draft evaders)fight this war.
And yes,it is a civil war Greg,and it was predicted by many of us 3 years ago.Your right wing think tanks can fill your head with any junk reports you wish to believe,but the clerics run the country down religious lines.They have been waiting to stir the pot,and with all their friends coming in to join the fun(killing Americans is considered a one way ticket to the promised land)they have reignited a centuries old religious war that had pretty well simmered.
Yes,Sudam killed his own people,and was taken to task for it.Now,we have created an evirorment that has rekindled the bloody sectarian violence that Sudam was shammed by the worlds for.Only now it's worse.And we are reponsible,and unable to stop it.â€
No I don’t agree that the world is less safe than it was just because of Iraq. I think that the world is less safe because;
• Spain capitulated when they had two bombings
• France has yet to stop the riots to the point that the press is no longer allowed to print or speak of it
• France has yet to figure that they can’t just allow the former colonist to immigrate to their country without any integration into the culture
• Germany until recently has taken a back seat to the needed reforms to prevent them from becoming another France
• England is lost, their political correctness has gone so far to stop teaching history and now there is a complete need to apply thought laws to prevent Muslim bashing
• The UN has failed in Africa in general but specifically in Darfur, Somalia and Bosnia (no not in Africa) where Islam has gained a strong foot hold and recruitment efforts in these countries has raised a lot of terrorists. These are not countries that have to deal with the US directly but more of the multinational forces from the UN and NATO, especially in Bosnia where tensions has been brewing again. Many of the things we did were with the blessing of the UN and before I forget another country went into Somalia and pretty much killed a lot of Islamic fundamentalist.
• Russia is fighting terrorism with the separation of Chechnya and the Islamic fundamentalist who have taken over that part of Russia. They by the way have the same problems as do we with Iraq, an influx of people from Iran and Syria.
Ok the right wing think tank reports I get I haven’t quoted or used and this is not where I got my info, it is the couple places like the SSI at the Carlisle Barracks, a couple intelligence summaries that are public info through the government and one place I would like to mention but won’t but is far left. The thing is the civil war exists at the UN, countries that lost a flow of money from Iraq and by our great inept media in this country. For it to be a civil war there has to be more what is going on in the country. It is more of a religious war than anything else and the life outside of Baghdad seems to be still improving.
If this was predicted by all you 3 years ago, why didn’t the real experts the Iraqi people who live here predict it?
They have been fighting for 1100 years but will always pull together to fight an enemy. Amazing you just came around to this? I told you last year that they have been fighting along time and we were not the trigger for any violence based on religion. Saddam did a good job keeping his people living in terror and when something happened like the Kurds trying to break away, he simply killed all of them. He tried to follow Stalin’s example of civil control but we failed to use this to our advantage.
“5)America is a far more dangerous place as a result of the "war on terror"which is synonomis with bumbling and clowning in the name of mutant politicians trying to bring freedom to Iraqis.The Iraqis would just as soon shoot us,or tell their freinds where our troops are,and have them shoot us or blow them up with IUD's.There is no path to victory without the support of the people.And we do NOT have that support.Most Iraqi's with money have left the country.â€
America is far less safe for a number of factors, one is the need for the left to put ahead of our country the rights of others who neither belong here nor are here. Gitmo is a good example where we actually lost rights, it is not on our soil and there should have never been a court case brought into our system that allowed anyone who fought against this country to have access to. What bothers me is not that Gitmo exists but the way some were captured and the really good treatment some of the most undeserving people on earth get. Remember some of these people don’t care about anything but killing you or me.
The other thing is many people look at these court cases as part of our rights when in fact they have absolutely nothing to do with our rights other than to restrict them. The same goes for the leaks form the CIA and other sources through the media; they endangered all of us more than anything Bush has done. I read a really good brief on the ‘domestic spying program’ from the ACLU yesterday and really am ##### that this was stopped. The details of the program had nothing to do with a citizen but a communications channels that our government identified as being used by terrorist to plan attacks. Sorry ACLU, you screwed us and helped the terrorist.
As for Iraqis with money not returning, think again. I worked with some wealthy ones here and when war started, they all took a leave of absence and went there, on their return they have sent money there and will return for good once there is stability. Why do they live here? Because they are making money here and sending there to help Iraq, even the Iraqi gas station owner I talk to a lot, he saves as much as he can to send to relatives to help.
“6)Why do I have to tell you this every 6 months?Do you think it is really going to be"victory"after the surge fails?And the death of another 200 or 300 troops?â€
I don’t know, why? Why is it that the democrats keep putting out there while we the people want to have other stuff discussed? I would like to see Iraq be put behind two other subjects, border security and taxes but I know that this sound cruel and insensitive but the public does not really care about Iraq, as sad as that is.
You know what also kills? Words.
Word that tell everyone our country does not support the troops.
Words from polls saying the American people are not backing the president or the mission.
Words that tell our troops that it is alright to run from a task, no matter how formidable it is, it is alright.
Words that make them feel like pawns in the fight against left and right.
Words from people on the left like Sheehan and moore who tell us this was for oil or some other stupid reason and not many of them have been to Iraq.
As one Iraqi veteran has pointed out, the democrats have cheapen the lives lost by their need to add so much stuff to the Iraqi spending bill to get people to vote on it and not be truly concern about the needs of the troops first. If they were concern, the vote would have been an easy one.
“7)Bottom line,America got just what it asked for,and Osama fiddles away in his cave.And plans the next attack.Safer,I thinks not mine good expidite buddies.â€
You know there is more to this than what I or anyone can write on one forum. The problem that we have in this country is the ideals that have been used to guide people for the last 40 years or so which starting with the ideals that are the basis for political correctness to the need for laws that abridge our rights for the betterment of one minority or another to the fact that our education system is so sub-standard that kids graduating college still have problems with basic concepts of government. It is all connected.
It is rather sad that we, as people of this great country forget events that changed our lives forever, like 9/11 and worry about what others think of us in order to protect us and our way of life. We forget that people have been trying to kill us for decades, there have been governments that tried to destroy us but most of all we can not think beyond our tv’s or living rooms that it is possible that we may have to deal with another attack on our country and we are quick to blame the leadership that governs us now for all the problems.
