Another

[Teflon]

After reading the responses to THawks post, I have another situation that I need help on:

We were in Salt Lake City last week for 3 days with no load offers...we listed our truck on "Get Loaded.com" and got a hit from a local broker who offered us a load to Western Ontario. The load (1650 miles) paid pretty well and we wanted to get East, back to the freight lanes. Panther booked the load as a backhaul and took their 15%. We were cleared by Livingston to cross into Canada at Pembina, ND. We arrived at the border about 6:00 Saturday morning with about 325 miles to consignee.
We had planned to deliver at around noon Saturday and deadhead back toward Minneapolis, historically a good place to get loads.

Well, as luck would have it, the shipper had an expired customs bond. Canadian Customs sent us back out to the USA. As I write this post, late Monday evening, we are still sitting south of the border.

After we were turned back by customs, we immediately contacted the broker in Salt Lake....he had no clue. So we called the shipper..voice mail...back to the broker, who gave us a contact number. Called the contact at the shipper....he had no idea what a customs bond is and told us that it would be Monday before he was back in the office to try and get to the problem.

We then called Panther and were told that we would have to deal with the broker in Salt Lake. In other words we were on our own.

After playing phone tag all day Monday with the broker, he finally tells us that the shipper had been bought by another company, therefore their customs bond is no longer valid.

I call Panther backhaul department again and ask for assistance. Was told that we could drop the load at a warehouse, but should be aware that we may not get paid for the load and we were responsible for any damage that might occur to the freight. Did not seem to be a very good option to me.

Now here is our dilemma......

Our broker told us the shipper is working on the problem, with no idea when the problem will be solved. Although the broker told us we would be compensated for our wait time, we have no idea how much or when we will be paid.

Does anyone have an idea as to the O/O or drivers recourse in a situation like this and what do you think would be a fair request for compensation?

Thanks for your patience reading this post...living and learning.

 

[RichM]

I think you have 2 options. Get something in writing from the Broker or Shipper that you will be paid detention charges. You should insist on about $40.00 per hour. If they balk at this ,then eat the fuel costs and take it back to Salt Lake. Once you threaten to do this they will resolve this real fast.

Even though the Broker says you will be compensated get Panther in the loop as they will be collecting(??) the load and detention revenue. Panther can probably put more pressure on the Broker than you can, as they have acess to legal remedies that you don't.

Good luck and keep us posted

 

[Teflon]

Thanks Rich...
By tomorrow noon I will be at 72 hours. At 40.00 per hour that's $2880.
Is that about right for a D Unit?

 

[x06col]

I certainly wouldn't hold my breath for that $2800 today. I'm glad I have a dock to put something like that on, till it gets sorted out. Then you have to figgure what your load is worth, and go from there.

 

[RobA]

Your entire post makes no sense; other than that you are right now holding the bag on a piece or pieces of undeliverable freight.
Who's bond has expired?
What does the US shipper have to do with Canada Customs?

Find out:
Who is responsible for clearing the shipment : The shipper or the consignee?
Who is the Customs Broker?
Did you get any Customs papers?

Once you find out who the Customs Broker is; call them and see what is being done to rectify the situation.

It sounds like you will sit there till hell freezes unless you are proactive and get some information.

I wouldn't trust a "LOAD BROKER" to know anything about Customs.

The amount of demmurage to try and collect sounds like the least of your troubles at this time.
If you put it in a warehouse; who will responsible for those charges?

Panther will and should wash their hands of the whole mess.

You should stay out of a foreign country unless you have good support behind you.









>After reading the responses to THawks post, I have another
>situation that I need help on:
>
>We were in Salt Lake City last week for 3 days with no load
>offers...we listed our truck on "Get Loaded.com" and got a
>hit from a local broker who offered us a load to Western
>Ontario. The load (1650 miles) paid pretty well and we
>wanted to get East, back to the freight lanes. Panther
>booked the load as a backhaul and took their 15%. We were
>cleared by Livingston to cross into Canada at Pembina, ND.
>We arrived at the border about 6:00 Saturday morning with
>about 325 miles to consignee.
>We had planned to deliver at around noon Saturday and
>deadhead back toward Minneapolis, historically a good place
>to get loads.
>
>Well, as luck would have it, the shipper had an expired
>customs bond. Canadian Customs sent us back out to the USA.
>As I write this post, late Monday evening, we are still
>sitting south of the border.
>
>After we were turned back by customs, we immediately
>contacted the broker in Salt Lake....he had no clue. So we
>called the shipper..voice mail...back to the broker, who
>gave us a contact number. Called the contact at the
>shipper....he had no idea what a customs bond is and told us
>that it would be Monday before he was back in the office to
>try and get to the problem.
>
>We then called Panther and were told that we would have to
>deal with the broker in Salt Lake. In other words we were on
>our own.
>
>After playing phone tag all day Monday with the broker, he
>finally tells us that the shipper had been bought by another
>company, therefore their customs bond is no longer valid.
>
>I call Panther backhaul department again and ask for
>assistance. Was told that we could drop the load at a
>warehouse, but should be aware that we may not get paid for
>the load and we were responsible for any damage that might
>occur to the freight. Did not seem to be a very good option
>to me.
>
>Now here is our dilemma......
>
>Our broker told us the shipper is working on the problem,
>with no idea when the problem will be solved. Although the
>broker told us we would be compensated for our wait time, we
>have no idea how much or when we will be paid.
>
>Does anyone have an idea as to the O/O or drivers recourse
>in a situation like this and what do you think would be a
>fair request for compensation?
>
>Thanks for your patience reading this post...living and
>learning.

 

[davekc]

For the few times we have done this type of load, we fax everything to whomever the broker is where we plan to cross PRIOR to ever leaving the shipper. If there is a problem, their load doesn't go.
That process may take several hours, but at least you will know if there is any issues.
You want to be sure that the shipper has an account with that broker. If not, you will know during the process. I also make clear that if there is a delay on there end, detention after two hours is paid by comcheck at the shippers location. We don't wait for free on their screw up. Even if you are a day from crossing, you likely will know if there is a problem at that point.
Worst case scenerio is they can't load you, and you lost two hours and alittle deadhead to the shipper.
Not sure where you are at now, but you would have to weigh up returning the load, or ask for immediate partial payment to wait.
Tough call now that your in a bind.








Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[terryandrene]

Teflon:

Have you resolved your delivery problem?

 

[Teflon]

Sorry Guys....we have been in Western Ontario for the past few days with no Internet service...

Yes we finally got the proper customs bond from the shipper. Turns out that the shipper was bought recently and the new company did not have a valid customs bond posted, therefore Canadian Customs would not let us cross.


Dave, we did fax all paperwork to Livingston before we left the shipper and they said we were cleared to cross last Saturday morning. However, Livingston did not know that the shipper had a problem with the customs bond. Livingston was also out of the loop.

Because the shipper was closed all weekend the broker could not get to the decision makers until Monday. The broker was referred to the new owners but it was mid day Tuesday before the new customs bond was valid and we were cleared to cross.

Panther said I had no choice but to hold the freight until the problem was solved or take the load to a warehouse.....after reading some legal stuff pertaining to "holding freight hostage" I learned this kind of situation could lead to a legal nightmare.

I ask the broker to put it in writing (a faxed copy) that I would be compensated for the detention, but he called Panther and said he would pay x amount. I have a gut feeling that I will never see detention on this deal. Dave is right, I should have gotten this in writing before I left the shipper, unfortunately I was not aware that on a backhaul I was on my own. In my ignorance I thought that since Panther accepted the backhaul contract, sent me a valid Pro Number, took their 15% fee, and collected all fees from the shipper, that the normal process applied concerning detention. According to Panther, if one does a backhaul, one is responsible for all extenuating circumstances including terms of detention. I was treated as if I had my own "authority" which I don't.

I may be mistaken, but the only written contract is between the broker, shipper, and carrier. I just carry the freight and expect to be paid accordingly. In my case it was a detention problem, but what if the truck breaks down and the load has to be recovered. Who pays? Is it the carrier my truck is contracted with. I think not.

This is my first backhaul and my last. There are too many grey areas that have not been cleared up for me. There is too much financial and legal risk involved. I did not get into this business expecting to deal with the "Wild West" antics of the freight business. If I wanted to do that I would get my own authority.

Many thanks to all who contributed comment to this post. Look forward to further input........

 

[Tennesseahawk]

In the end, you got a good paying load out of a crappy area. I wouldn't say everything was bad. You learned. Take that lesson and press on. Don't give up on backhauls cause of one bad experience.

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!

 

[Moot]

Plus you got to spend some quality time at the Gastrak in Pembina, eh!

 

[Teflon]

Yea Moot......real quality time? We saw some pretty awesome lake country too. Mark it up as experience.

 

[nightcreacher]

thsi will teach you about brokers and back haul freight,dead head would have been easier

 

[Vinnie T]

This is a valuable lesson for us all when booking these backhauls. If you are going into customs..I would ALWAYS contact the customs broker before leaving the shipper to insure this won't happen again. Chances are if contact was made to the customs broker you could have found out there was an issue with the customer and maybe could have fixed the problem before leaving the shipper (live and learn right). Always check the contracts and also get the broker's policy on detention. Personally if the broker is not a 24/7 operation (always ask this) on an international load I would not do business with them.

 

[davekc]

The other option is not to take brokered loads into Canada. We seldom do unless it pays over $2.00 a mile and goes to Ontario. As for deadheading being easier......It most certainly is. Just no profit in doing it. Brokering loads is much like anything else. The more you do it and understand it, the easier it becomes.
Also, with regards to a breakdown. Unless it is an expedite load, you fix the truck. Most don't have a set delivery time. If it was to arrive a day late, then it does. If it is an expedite load, then you tow it. Same costs as if you had the expedite carriers load on.









Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Dave, you stole my thought! LOL

If you have the contacts and money, you could also look into swapping it before the border. However, that's more for a Detroit/Windsor crossing.

-Vampire Super Slooth Trucker!!!

 

[nightcreacher]

Dave,I know what can happen with broker loads,before going with roberts express,thats edxactly how I made my living,produce and broker loads,as i didnt have time to go find loads on my own
the brokers were theives then and still are.my money per loaded mile is high enough,if I decide to just dead head to a busier area than they want me to,i can do that,and since with a tractor,i really dont sit anywhere that long,much different with a D unit

 

[RobA]

Brokered Loads RE: Another

I would suggest that truckers who are leased to an Expedite Carrier look very carefully before accepting a "brokered" load to Canada. They are too many problems that could occur and too many penalties; including financial penalties; that could be assessed.
The expedite carrier itself should be leary of such loads; an error and it might not appear for months or years later during a Customs audit. Penalties could be charged to the carrier that provided the CARRIER CODE or PARS sticker.
The 15% skim might not cover that.
The load in question still confuses me; who the "shipper" was and why there was a problem with a bond.
Another question for the leased trucker is insurance in the case of a collision.
The carrier who's name is decalled on your door will likely be involved in the police investigation and any subsequent law suits.
Who is liable in that case?








>The other option is not to take brokered loads into Canada.
>We seldom do unless it pays over $2.00 a mile and goes to
>Ontario.
>Davekc
>owner
>23 years
>PantherII
>EO moderator

 

[davekc]

RE: Brokered Loads RE: Another

We have some brokerages that we have had a great relationship with for a long period of time. Not all are bad. That would include Fedex, Panther and UPS.
I would agree that produce brokers are a much different game, and there are many sharks. We don't haul produce so we have no real dealings with them.
As for insurance, yes the carrier is involved in the event of a collision because you are operating under their authority. Pretty much the same as any other load that is hauled.






Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[Broompilot]

RE: Brokered Loads RE: Another

Had almost the exact same thing happen to me, but over a U.S. Holiday. Customer was just purchased and no broker relatinship meant I got to sit from Saturdays appointment at Midnight after this was cleared by my dispatch.

Tuesday AM earliest it could clear.

Thank Goodness for a small carrier and an owner with several contacts. Cal got ahold of a Canadian Expediter Co., with a few strings I at least got to the customer on Monday. Only to be threatened with Jail time in Sherbrook QC, for not reporting to the hold over spot and reporting to Customs in downtown Sherbrook. I offered to be taken prisoner, at this point I did not care what happened to me or the freight. Been their done that, know exactly what you went thru, but at least you did not sit in Pembrook in -10F. But I bet you saw landing strips for Mosquitoes larege as 747s this time of year.

 

[Teflon]

RE: Brokered Loads RE: Another

Yea Broom...some big ##### skeetters and lots of flies.


I got a lot of valuable information from this post. If I am ever in a back haul situation again I will:

1) check out the broker and all contracts
2) have broker\shipper stipulate all payments in writing
3) never cross the border
4) LISTEN TO MY WIFE, AND NOT TAKE THE ##### THING!!!!!!!

Teflon