Another Obama Ammo Grab

[Pilgrim]

Considering the immense popularity of AR-15 type rifles, it shouldn't surprise anyone that the BATF would make the attempt to ban ammo for them. This will only serve to create a run on this type of ammo and the components that handloaders use to reload their own. Hopefully Congress will quash this effort before it takes effect. Those who value their 2nd amendment rights should contact their Senators and Congressmen in DC.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives posted a proposed rule change Friday removing a previous exemption and banning the manufacture, import and sale of “5.56 mm (.223) SS109 and M855 ‘green tip’ ammunition containing a steel core,” saying it now considers it to be “non-sporting” handgun ammunition capable of penetrating protective vests worn by law enforcement officers. This latest development, ceding to law enforcement lobby interests, is prompted by the development of handguns capable of firing the cited ammunition.


“In a move clearly intended by the Obama Administration to suppress the acquisition, ownership and use of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles, [ATF] unexpectedly announced ... that it intends to ban commonplace M855 ball ammunition as ‘armor piercing ammunition,” the National Rifle Association weighed in. “The decision continues Obama’s use of his executive authority to impose gun control restrictions and bypass Congress.

ATF proposes expanding ammo bans using law enforcement protection rationale - National gun rights | Examiner.com

 

[layoutshooter]

The regulatory bureaucracies have become the "fronts", or the "puppets", of the executive branch. We are rapidly heading down a very dangerous path. At the end of that path is a malevolent dictatorship hell bent on controlling every aspect of our lives, by what ever means available to them. There will likely come a time when the legislative branch is a "rubber stamp" body that is controlled by the all powerful executive.

Almost everything this government is doing, taking control of health care, education, etc, is designed to insure that they are the only power in the country. This has be going on for decades, or longer, and if it is not ended, they will prevail. Freedom, and liberty, are dying.

 

[BobWolf]

The reality is the political systeme we have been brainwashed into beliving is nothing more than a smokescreen. At least since 1988 when George Bush started his New World Order
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txukr5zgHnw&feature=player_detailpage

 

[skyraider]

brought back by popular......................demand

 

[layoutshooter]

Obama is just another scumbag Piece "O" Crap in a very long line of manure. Party makes no difference. Only fools believe there is any real difference.

 

[cheri1122]

Pilgrim: I am 100% behind the right to bear arms, but I'm also troubled by the ease with which people who cannot be trusted can obtain weapons, so I feel some common sense restrictions are needed. Damifino what they are, [except the 'loopholes' like no background checks at gun shows need to be closed], so please educate me: of what legitimate use is an AR15 rifle, or ammunition that can penetrate a bulletproof vest? This is an honest question - I've been to the range, learned that I prefer handguns to rifles or shotguns, even shot an AK47, but my knowledge of specifics is as limited as my need for it, so I don't understand your point of view here.

 

[Slo-Ride]

so please educate me: of what legitimate use is an AR15 rifle, or ammunition that can penetrate a bulletproof vest? This is an honest question - I've been to the range, learned that I prefer handguns to rifles or shotguns, even shot an AK47, but my knowledge of specifics is as limited as my need for it, so I don't understand your point of view here.

To kill.. Bottom line. To kill the SOB in the bullet proof vest,that is coming at you and your brother's, your sister's, your mother and your father. If you can't do it someone nearby should be able to because there isn't time to wait for 911.

 

[Slo-Ride]

One other thing..Common sense does not come equipped on a deranged person hell bent on causing harm. So any law you feel may need to be imposed is useless. It will only leave you defenseless.

 

[layoutshooter]

There is nothing in the Constitution that states that any arms or ammunition must have a "sporting" purpose. The BATFE needs to be done away with, along with several other federal regulatory agencies.

The BATFE (Obama), is also lying about AR style rifles, and M855, not having any "sporting" uses. AR style rifles are used for hunting all over the country. AR style rifles are used in shooting competitions all the time. M855 is often used on the range for target work. For those who don't know, target shooting is a sport.

M855, is also NOT armor piercing. BAFTE (Obama) is changing the legal definition of armor piercing to suit it's needs. Again, this is being done outside of the legislature.

The government lackeys in the press are regurgitating the lies, as truth, as all good government propaganda agencies should. I kinda don't understand the outrage over Brian Williams lies, since most of what the press puts out is as far off from reality as what Brain said.

 

[layoutshooter]

Keep in mind that even the term, "bullet proof vest" is incorrect. There is no such thing. They are bullet resistant vests. They can be penetrated by any number of bullets/projectiles, most of which are used for hunting. Most shotgun slugs, used for deer hunting, can penetrate them. So can arrows/bolts fired from most hunting bows/crossbows.

This move by the BAFTE is a smokescreen, with no real purpose other than to outlaw items that Obama does not like.

A little education for those who don't know much on this subject. DO NOT GET YOUR INFORMATION FROM THE MEDIA OR THE ADMINISTRATION, THEY LIE!

http://www.bulletproofme.com/Ballistic_Protection_Levels.shtml

 

[Turtle]

Whatever weapons the government has to use on its citizens the citizens should have at their disposal to use right back. The right to keep and bear arms is necessary to ensure a free state - the civic duty to act in concert in defense of the state, but also for the natural rights of self defense and resistance to oppression.

The US Supreme Court ruled in United States v. Miller (1939) that the federal government and the states could limit any weapon types not having a “reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia.” Limiting or restricting assault weapons is the exact opposite of that.

 

[layoutshooter]

On top of that, AR rifles, sold to the general public, are not assault rifles. They are nothing more than semi-automatic rifles. Nothing new under the sun. Semi-auto firearms have been around for well over 100 years and the AR platform has been around for over 60 years.

This is 100% nothing more than an illegal power grab by an increasingly oppressive government.

 

[Turtle]

A hockey stick is an assault weapon, if you use it in an assault. Like "Tactical," the term "assault" is marketing, anyway. It has to do with what it looks like more so than what it does. Limiting sawed off shotguns and and butterfly knives and other weapons not having a reasonable relationship to the preservation of a well regulated militia is fine. But limiting or restricting automatic weapons cripples the ensurance of a well regulated militia, and limiting or restricting semi-automatic weapons is an outrage.

Perhaps the most unambiguous phrase in the whole of the Constitution is "shall not be infringed."

 

[layoutshooter]

I was using the term "assault weapon" in it's legal, not literal sense.

In my way of thinking, firearms are tools, tools that, in some circumstances, could be used as a weapon, as is the case with most other tools as well.

Our rights, all of them, are being infringed upon more and more with each passing day. It amazes me how many people are willing to give up their freedom and liberty. It's sad.

 

[LDB]

An AR is possibly the most versatile rifle available. It is a semi-automatic sporting rifle. It is used for hunting. It is used for target shooting. It is used in competition shooting. It can be converted to various calibers to better suit a particular activity. In it's 5.56 version it is very mild to shoot with minimal recoil.

Possibly the most important points are that asking what legitimate use is there for any firearm is an improper question as the marketplace will determine if there is a legitimate use and that one cannot be 100% behind the right to bear arms and also in favor of and supportive of additional laws that do nothing other than further restrict and inconvenience honest citizens.

 

[Pilgrim]

Pilgrim: I am 100% behind the right to bear arms, but I'm also troubled by the ease with which people who cannot be trusted can obtain weapons, so I feel some common sense restrictions are needed. Damifino what they are, [except the 'loopholes' like no background checks at gun shows need to be closed], so please educate me: of what legitimate use is an AR15 rifle, or ammunition that can penetrate a bulletproof vest? This is an honest question - I've been to the range, learned that I prefer handguns to rifles or shotguns, even shot an AK47, but my knowledge of specifics is as limited as my need for it, so I don't understand your point of view here.

As mentioned in some of the other responses, the BATF is misrepresenting the capability of this ammo. It is NOT armor piercing, and poses no extraordinary threat to law enforcement.

Also, most gun show vendors require background checks now. The claim to the contrary by the media is simply false. Transactions between private individuals - and criminals - simply can't be controlled.

 

[muttly]

From article:
Currently, a gun owner who goes to a retail shop to purchase a gun from a licensed dealer is subject to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System. The system, run by the FBI reviews criminal history, mental health and restraining-order records to weed out those who are legally barred from gun ownership.

The gun grabbers’ real goal has always been universal registration, and tracking every gun owner in the country would be a big step in that direction.

“The law already requires licensed gun dealers to run background checks, and over the last 14 years that’s kept 1.5 million of the wrong people from getting their hands on a gun,” said Mr. Obama, when he announced his gun-violence task force results on Jan. 16. “But it’s hard to enforce that law when as many as 40 percent of all gun purchases are conducted without a background check.”



The 40 percent figure that Mr. Obama and Sen. Dianne Feinstein, California Democrat, cite so frequently comes from a 1997 Justice Department survey. A closer look at that 40 percent number reveals it includes 29 percent of gun owners who said they got their guns from family members or friends and acquaintances.

That leaves 11 percent of firearms obtained through unfamiliar people. Of these, 3 percent reported they got their firearms “through the mail,” a process that requires a background check from a federally licensed firearms dealer. Four percent said “other,” and 4 percent made their purchase at a gun show.

The “gun-show loophole” is an exaggeration designed to foster the false impression that this is how the bad guys acquire firearms. A 2001 Justice Department survey found 0.7 percent of state and federal prison inmates bought their weapons at a gun show.

Gun shows aren’t the equivalent of the Wild West. The vast majority of vendors at the shows are fully licensed dealers who must run the FBI check at the time of sale. What the gun grabbers are really after are transactions between private individuals trading or selling their personal property.



Read more: MILLER: The gun-show loophole myth - Washington Times

 

[layoutshooter]

Yeah, I am 100% sure that ALL criminals, terrorists and other's like them always try to buy their guns legally and are stopped by background checks.

 

[layoutshooter]

When a firearm is purchased "through the mail" it has to be sent to an address with a FFL. Like a dealer, gunsmith, etc.

As far as I know the only time a firearm can be sent directly to an address without an FFL is when a firearm is being returned from a gunsmith to it's owner.

 

[paulnstef39]

l am pretty sure you can ship to yourself from 1 address to another.