An Ordinary Recession This is Not

[layoutshooter]

I bet that if we ever get as bad as it was in the 1930's that MOST of the people today could not survive. I listen to my dad's stories and I bet that neighbors won't help neighbors like they did then. Shoot, large numbers of people don't even know where food comes from. One woman my wife knows did not know that meat was muscle. She thought that animals have a "meat system" in addition to the muscles. I know many who don't know that food is GROWN on farms. Want to guess how many could raise thier own chickens, or put in a garden big enough to do good? We have had it far too easy for far too long. Time to weed out the weak and lazy. Layoutshooter

 

[highway star]

That too they are dealing with a level headed union in the CAW as opposed to the UAW

You've gotta be kidding! That was sarcasm, right?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

You've gotta be kidding! That was sarcasm, right?

No...and yes...

Bob White the then head of the Canada division of the UAW...seen the writing on the wall..knew things had to change and deal with the companies...He spearheaded the drive to separate from the UAW...Canadian plants were first to modernize to robotics...they got Multiskilled tradesmen...no more waiting for the pipefitter, mechanic, electrician...where they lost jobs they were rewarded with new models they worked for the common good....The UAW continued to plod along and fight robotics, fight multiskilled...fought everything new and then turn around and blame the company for running them into the ground and shouldered no blame claiming entitlement instead...

 

[highway star]

It seems in recent years they've gotten a reputation for never being happy and willing to strike over the littlest things. The Buzz Hargrove influence?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

It seems in recent years they've gotten a reputation for never being happy and willing to strike over the littlest things. The Buzz Hargrove influence?

Buzz is a little tighter then Bob...the both have made considerable concessions to each other already and been successful to keep their jobs....Willing to strike and striking is two different cases...each still has to defend their positions...

 

[simon says]

Phil had made the case, and the numbers do not lie. "We are headed into uncharted territory". Point is, all that money has gone only to the rich, the speculators that are parasites on our labor, and the banks who now hoard the money, and refuse to lend. Since B. of Asamerica took over my bank, they set whatever rates they want- my fees have doubled at least.
This is the great land of opportunity! Socialism for the rich, the rest get the shaft. This recession will be so deep, that entire countries are going bankrupt (see Iceland). Anyone notice that in China, they expect growth to drop by one-half, and 70,000 jobs in Hong Kong's Pearl River delta have been lost. The $586 billion package announce there, by % terms is much larger than the $700 billion that both parties supported here.
What irritates me on this website is, that not one response evinces an ounce of feeling for the 50% of expeditors who will probably be gone before next spring. It is not about spreading doom and gloom, it is about painting the proper picture, so people do not have illusions. New construction: where? in your neighborhood? high priced hockey tickets: get a life...!
There is some big time winter or spring of discontent coming- perhaps autoworkers might even form a new union and oust the ones who are in secret talks right now to gut the jobs bank and slash the pensions and pay...If auto survives, it will be also at our expense- sorry Fed Ex guys, there will not be that many museum pieces to go around to make up for the "hold your nose freight" that will disappear...

 

[x06col]

Bravo Simon!!! And did you notice that the China government just arrested a nuther multi billionair? Wonder where those billions will go? We just need to change the color of our money.

 

[Lawrence]

What irritates me on this website is, that not one response evinces an ounce of feeling for the 50% of expeditors who will probably be gone before next spring.

I guess you have not read my posts on the urgent need to save the US Auto industry...without it we have major problems.

 

[davekc]

I echo Lawrence's thoughts. It is just a matter of what the best approach for longevity. I am almost convinced that a bankruptcy approach is the best option. They need a vehicle to get out of some of the crazy union deals they negotiated which is the cause of much of their financial situation.
The argument is they will lose car sales from the bankruptcy approach but I am not so sure.
People bought thousands of Kia's an Hyundias on a whim when few knew much about them.
If they have the right product at the right price, I am convinced that people will buy.

 

[Lawrence]

I don't support their inefficiency(US Auto Industry) ...but the writing is on the wall...we must support it or there is going to be many..correction...millions - who are jobless. We are darned if we do (loan) or don't we don't (no loan).

 

[davekc]

That might be the approach. Let them reorganize, and then provide a loan with specific conditions. That in itself may be the only real answer. Throwing money at it in its current situation just prolongs the inevitable.
They really need a Lee Iacocca at the helm and willing to work for a dollar for the year to get it turned around. Sadly, I don't think any of the current executives fit that bill.

 

[dabluzman1]

I echo Lawrence's thoughts. It is just a matter of what the best approach for longevity. I am almost convinced that a bankruptcy approach is the best option. They need a vehicle to get out of some of the crazy union deals they negotiated which is the cause of much of their financial situation.
The argument is they will lose car sales from the bankruptcy approach but I am not so sure.
People bought thousands of Kia's an Hyundias on a whim when few knew much about them.
If they have the right product at the right price, I am convinced that people will buy.

Dave I agree in part with what you say. I agree we should let the auto manufacturers go thru
bankruptcy for some of the reasons stated.
Hopefully, a slice of humble pie and a good dose of a-whoopin in the market place by companies that perceived the need for better autos with a better warranty at a better price will shove the American auto manufacturers down a road of better service and producing better products.
However, it was no whim that Hyundia and Kia became successful. They under sold their product until the product proved itself. Hyundia had the lowest price car in America for several years. Not any more. They won over the public with a decent product, great service and
a great warranty. No sign of a whim in that strategy. It was a well planed marketing
plan that attacked an under performing US auto industry.
Detroit shuffled their feet for the last two decades, fending off Honda,Toyota and Nissan. While being hurt by these companies, they we were able to survive on the,
"Buy American" mantra.
They laughed at US consumer gullibility, did you really believe it when Ford said it had a "better idea"?
Their weakness is exposed and the public a tad smarter armed with more information.
Bankruptcy will allow the auto industry to cancel its bad union agreements and invest
in modernization of under performing factories.
I hope they survive, but not as we currently know them.
Over paid, over hyped, under achievers who havent acknowledged that the dire straits they find themselves in is a direct result of an ailing industry driven there by poor management.
Buy American?
Not at my expense.
Buy American?
Gladly when it is competitive.

 

[Moot]

I guess you have not read my posts on the urgent need to save the US Auto industry...without it we have major problems.

The U.S. auto industry as a whole isn't in need of an urgent rescue but G.M., Ford and Chrysler seem to think they need a bundle of cash to survive.

 

[Pilgrim]

Dr. Thomas Sowell is probably the premier economist in the country today, and he has a recent article that puts the current recession in an interesting perspective:

"...Amid all the political and media hysteria, national output has declined by less than one-half of one percent. In fact, it may not have declined even that much-- or at all-- when the statistics are revised later, as they very often are.

We are not talking about the Great Depression, when output dropped by one-third and unemployment soared to 25 percent..."

Thomas Sowell : "Jolting" the Economy - Townhall.com

This article is well worth reading, and makes some very good points to keep in mind as we witness our newly elected politicians promising to solve all our problems with the encouragement of the mainstream media.

I believe it was Mark Twain that stated something like the following: "If I don't read the newspapers, I'm uninformed; if I do read the newspapers, I'm misinformed."

 

[arrbsthw]

I heard today that GM is tightening their belts. Dropped
Tiger Woods $7,000,000 contract. Said they weren't going
to be giving exec's bonus's this year and a few other things.
Oh, I think one of the CEO's said they were only going to
receive $1.00 salaray also.

 

[hondaking38]

a dollar salary?? for a year?? heck i can make 2 maybe 3 times that at panther a year...

 

[BillChaffey]

St Louis Post Dispatch, November 20, 2008
"In 1962 G.M. had 460,000 American workers, and was providing retirement benefits to about 40,000 former employees. By 2005 G.M. had about 140,000 employees in this country, but was paying benefits to 450,000 retirees. Those numbers simply cannot be sustained."

 

[simon says]

My point is: The Chinese gov. are dumping huge amounts of money into building roads, bridges; that is, infrastructure... The CCP is so worried about un-rest they will attempt to keep people working. Secondly, just shows how global this is- but parasites who run our economy are responsible for the global depression un-winding. Including all the investment the capitalists have done in China since the 80's to seek out the cheapest source of labor.. They destroy our economy, cannot make profit without creating fictitious profits based on Ponzi schemes, and now they want our money to keep them afloat. But when auto asks for help, all they can talk about is how the workers are too greedy.

 

[Jefferson3000]

That might be the approach. Let them reorganize, and then provide a loan with specific conditions. That in itself may be the only real answer. Throwing money at it in its current situation just prolongs the inevitable.
They really need a Lee Iacocca at the helm and willing to work for a dollar for the year to get it turned around. Sadly, I don't think any of the current executives fit that bill.

Unfortunately I believe you are correct. No specific amount, no specific terms, no business plan, and no sacrifice on the part of the leaders. Add these up and you have no real results.

 

[Jefferson3000]

Hey Phil. Good topic. It was nice to finally meet you in VA. Sorry it was only for two minutes at the fuel island. Maybe next time.