American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs on

[oncedrove]

The American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs on the independenttrucker and now.............
From the Toledo Blade 12/10/06
So why is the nation's largest trucking organization asking the federal government to require that new trucks be equipped with devices restricting top speed to 68 miles per hour?
Safety and fuel economy, says the American Trucking Associations, which has petitioned the Federal Motor Carrier Safety and National Highway Traffic Safety administrations to require the devices. Most commonly, these involve a microchip in a truck's engine computer that restricts how fast the engine can run.
Dave Osiecki, the trucking association's vice president, said the proposal is aimed at "a small minority of drivers and trucks that are operating at excessive speeds."
"We think it's terrific from a safety standpoint," said Russ Rader, a spokesman for the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. "We applaud the trucking association for taking this step."
The proposal is opposed, however, by the Owner-Operators and Independent Drivers Association, which claims that drivers need the ability to accelerate above 68 mph in certain traffic and emergency situations.

What next?

Hammer

 

[Tennesseahawk]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

The ATA's drive for governors has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with profit. By limiting the speed of their competitors, the companies in the ATA will have a bigger market share.

As I said in a previous thread, if the ATA is so worried about safety, why do they have puppy mill training facilities? If you take a look at the drivers they spit out, I think that speaks volumes to the fact they don't give a rat's arse about safety!

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas

 

[redytrk]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

In my opinion, the ATA has put up "Speed Limiters" as a bone to throw to the FMCSA. Then they hope to get their real agenda through. Bigger trucks and less restrictions on immigrant drivers.

 

[chuckwagon]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

Once again the big dogs are at it. Putting such a required device on all trucks could, and more than likely, would force some smaller owner-operators to simply pull the plug in this business.

For the companies that own a small fleet of their own trucks it could cause them to look at either downsizing or closing down their business, unless I am over estimating the cost and labor involved in installing these devices say on 10, 25, 50 or a couple of hundred trucks.

Instead of requiring truck companies and owner-operators to install such devices why do we not simply require the government to pass laws which would increase the penalties to those that violate the posted laws of the highway.

Instead of forcing honest drivers, owner-operators and trucking companies to spend their hard earn dollars we should be forcing those hacks, wanna-b's, and scap drivers and companies to cough up their own blood money to face the penalties.

But, once again, the ATA and their money will push this through and the big dogs just keep getting bigger and growing bigger stronger teeth into the rest of our behinds!

 

[Tennesseahawk]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

Chuck, you miss the point with all this. How many HONEST companies do you think there are? There are many more that run illegal than do legal. When you have rates that are this low, you pretty much have to run illegally, HOS and speed, to make a decent living. If the government really wanted us to be legal, they would subsidize trucking. However, if everyone did run perfectly in their HOS, this country would be close to shut down. Kinda like the government's stance on smoking. If they really wanted us to stop, wouldn't they make it illegal? Nah... they like the tax revenue. They like the revenue we generate from running illegally also.

You see things in the perfect world of expediting where there's more than one truck to take your load if you can't. It's not that way for trucking, in general. Perfect example... the ATA companies run freight cheaper, slower, and legally (for the most part); but you have to wait days or weeks to get your freight moved. There's little efficiency. The typical o/o biz pushes their operation to get stuff moved and unloaded to get loaded again. When you put your freight on one of their trucks, you know it'll be picked up and delivered rather quickly. Competition has a strange effect on how efficiently things get done. That's why the ATA wants to take away the efficiency aspect from the o/os. It drives down the competition, and gives them a greater share of the business.

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas

 

[chuckwagon]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

Hawk -

First of all do not tell me I 'miss the point with all this.'

Once again - you are wrong, I get the point. That is what I said that the big dogs keep throwing their money and power around and it forces the smaller companies out of business and gives the big companies even more control.

I would think you would understand that this met the smaller long-haulers and some of the expediting companies as well.

Now, here you state that most of us in expediting run illegal, break the HOS rules and speed - because as you say and I quote 'When you have rates that are this low, you pretty much have to run illegally, HOS and speed, to make a decent living.'

However, when I have mentioned about getting ourselfs organized to force these companies to increase rates, detention pay, deadhead pay, etc, you were against an organized effort in doing so - it would take away our individual freedom as business owners. But, yet you are all in favor of the government and I quote you again 'If the government really wanted us to be legal, they would subsidize trucking.'

I would think if the government subsidized trucking they would certainly be taking our individual freedom as business owners away from us. It seems to me that you want the freedom, the increased rates, etc but you do not want to go through the fight of getting what you actually deserve - you want the government just to hand it to you.

If you want a change - then fight for it. If you want to perserve our segmet of the industry - then fight for it. Don't be like so many others in this country and lower your standards and ask for the goverment to support our industry.

We are a minority in a huge industry and the only way for us to survive is to fight for our share - a share that is being taken away from us by the big dogs. They are willing to sacrifice a little independent freedom as business owners to grab their share and more - yet we are sitting here not knowing what to do and are blind to the fact we just keep on taking it up the pipes.

WAKE UP - WE SURVIVE BECAUSE WE ORGANISE - WE SURVIVE BECAUSE WE ARE WILLING TO SACRIFIC A LITTLE FREEDOM AND PRIDE - WE SURVIE AND THRIFE BECAUSE WE WILL NOT STAY STAGNET ANY LONGER. Or will we? The choice as I have said before - is ours!

 

[sucbadriver]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

The ata should be renamed the Anti Trucking Association. They want to push the speed limiters to make swift and co look better if we all travel the same speed then does it matter who a drivers drive for? That is there way of thinking not mine. They hire driver’s right out of school and run them into the ground they crash. And they make bad names for themselves and the companies that hire them. ata< lower case can’t show me one study showing that a driver is more awake and aware when driving at lower speeds. I for one get tired driving 55 to 60 mph because I am bored to death. So don’t anyone tell me this move is for safety because that is a lie. Slow us down and not the cars will mean an increase in rear end crashes between cars and trucks. Killing and injuring more people than keeping the speeds the way they are. No state with a split speed limit cares about safety in the first place its all about $$$$$$$$$$$$ nothing more

 

[rode2rouen]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

>
>What next?
>
>

That would likely be EOBRs (black boxes).

The ATA will not be happy until their member companies are the ONLY way to ship freight by truck.

The ATA is no friend of the Owner Operator!


Rex

 

[rode2rouen]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

>
>Instead of requiring truck companies and owner-operators to
>install such devices why do we not simply require the
>government to pass laws which would increase the penalties
>to those that violate the posted laws of the highway.
>

chuckster,

No device installation is required if the truck has electronic engine controls.

A technician will plug his/her laptop into the data port below the dash or on the ECM, and with a few keystrokes will set the "Maximum Road Speed" and "Maximum Cruise Speed" parameters to 68, and the deed is done.

Be assured that the changes will be password protected so you cannot go into the ECM and undo the change.


Rex

 

[greg334]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

Ok I got to tell you chuck, and don’t take this personal, the need to organize does not outweigh individual participation in the process we have in government.

I mean that it is great we all join OOIDA but now what? I didn’t join for the benefits but I hoped my membership brought the addition to the political voice they need.

So I have to ask, do you sit back and let the $25/45 do the magic of representing our needs? No, you get involved. You need to write/call/visit your representatives, take the time and just do it. You also need to vote and vote every time – for the people who say they never vote, never mind. It may not look like it can help but it really can.

As for the OOIDA, the political part needs to be looked at as an organizer of information and a focal point for a spring board of communications from you to your representative. They need to step up and promote the effort to make the 135K or what ever the number is larger to the law makers, I just don’t see that happening yet. I see that the ATA is not the political power house that everyone here makes it out to be but the ATA is using the leverage of the power of its members and their employees to make a point or have a voice. Just look at their ATA Grassroots Program for example and how the program they have is setup in comparison to OOIDA.

Speaking of promotion, I want to know when, or if they will visit EO? Didn’t someone ask them to do so? If someone did, they should have been here within a couple days. This would be a great opportunity to ask some questions and get some answers.

So the other problem I find and said this before is the attitude of trucking has changed to the point many are just plain lazy and won’t or don’t do a thing to change it. I have been and will continue to be critical about seeing an industry turn out to be just like the IT industry where anyone can come into it and make money and don’t give a cr*p about anything but themselves. I hated it in the IT industry when someone who can write a piece of code or put together a website with Frontpage be called a programmer or webmaster – they were far from it.

One last thing

Is Panther a member of ATA? I think FedEx is but I can’t find a member list to confirm it.

 

[Crazynuff]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

The most recent issue of "The Trucker " had an article explaining that the amount of time spent behind the wheel is more of a safety factor than a few miles per hour . A longer driving time to reach a destination in a slower truck increases the risk . Yeah , ATA is interested in safety . That's why Schneider is recruiting drivers all over the world ( has 22 coming from South Africa ) and is pushing for less restrictions on immigration . Read the article in the most recent issue of "Road Star " where the Schneider CEO says labor (driver ) costs are the biggest problem in the trucking industry .

 

[Crazynuff]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

At dieseltruckresource.com there's an interesting poll on the speed limiter issue from the point of view of 4 wheelers . ( Although they are mostly Dodge diesel owners )

 

[Tennesseahawk]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

Chuckwagon wrote:
>First of all do not tell me I 'miss the point with all
>this.'

Too late... already did

>Once again - you are wrong, I get the point. That is what I
>said that the big dogs keep throwing their money and power
>around and it forces the smaller companies out of business
>and gives the big companies even more control.

No arguement from me.

>I would think you would understand that this met the smaller
>long-haulers and some of the expediting companies as well.
>Now, here you state that most of us in expediting run
>illegal, break the HOS rules and speed - because as you say
>and I quote 'When you have rates that are this low, you
>pretty much have to run illegally, HOS and speed, to make a
>decent living.'

Did I specifically say expediting? Nope... don't think I did. I was talking about trucking "IN GENERAL".

>However, when I have mentioned about getting ourselfs
>organized to force these companies to increase rates,
>detention pay, deadhead pay, etc, you were against an
>organized effort in doing so - it would take away our
>individual freedom as business owners. But, yet you are all
>in favor of the government and I quote you again 'If the
>government really wanted us to be legal, they would
>subsidize trucking.'

Did I say I supported that idea? NO! I was talking about how the government would go about making us legal IF THEY WANTED TO.

>I would think if the government subsidized trucking they
>would certainly be taking our individual freedom as business
>owners away from us. It seems to me that you want the
>freedom, the increased rates, etc but you do not want to go
>through the fight of getting what you actually deserve - you
>want the government just to hand it to you.

Did I say anything about wanting anything from the government? NO! I want what the guy at Burger King is getting... an increase in wage to go along with inflation. The government is not going to give us a fair shake, as they cater to the ones padding their pockets. So I don't expect a fair shake.

>If you want a change - then fight for it. If you want to
>perserve our segmet of the industry - then fight for it.
>Don't be like so many others in this country and lower your
>standards and ask for the goverment to support our industry.

Who's going to DC with me to clog up the loop? Anyone? Anyone? Didn't think so. There... you have your answer.

>We are a minority in a huge industry and the only way for us
>to survive is to fight for our share - a share that is being
>taken away from us by the big dogs. They are willing to
>sacrifice a little independent freedom as business owners to
>grab their share and more - yet we are sitting here not
>knowing what to do and are blind to the fact we just keep on
>taking it up the pipes.

The ones you speak of are sitting at desks, attending meetings, and writing company checks to our politicians. That is their job. Unfortunately, we have to run to feed ourselves and our family. There is no concensus among truckers other than blowing off steam on the cb. If you have a brilliant way of getting us group of 500,000 idiots to agree on something and actually DO IT, please share it with us, oh wise one.


>WAKE UP - WE SURVIVE BECAUSE WE ORGANISE - WE SURVIVE
>BECAUSE WE ARE WILLING TO SACRIFIC A LITTLE FREEDOM AND
>PRIDE - WE SURVIE AND THRIFE BECAUSE WE WILL NOT STAY
>STAGNET ANY LONGER. Or will we? The choice as I have said
>before - is ours!

No union for me, thanx.

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas

 

[davekc]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

It appears that the black boxes, HOS, speed limiters, and paperless logs are going to be hot topics in the coming twelve months.







Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[chuckwagon]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

Hawk -

If you want the same as the guy at Burger King - then go work at Burger King!

If you want to improve your situation in this industry - then get out of the same ole' but do nothing about it attitude some many of the 'old time veterans' have on this site.

Listen, I agree the ATA and the feds shake hands everyday, and one of the missions of the ATA is to line the pockets of their membership companies. While we might not like what the ATA does, if the OOIDA was able to do the same for us expeditors, we wouldn't be sitting around bitching about it though.

Sure we want a fair shake - but we have been sitting here in this expediting world we live in for many years stuck in the same mindset that nothing will change, we're always going to get screwed, everyone is out to put us out of business, etc.

Now, we can either continue this long standing tradition of ignorance or we can take a new approach and build our own organization - our own force - to address OUR needs and concerns. Or we can just sit back and await our slow and painful death of our own segment of the trucking industry, allowing the ATA to force us out of the business in the political bullsh** methods they use.

And Hawk, if you want to block a highway, a ramp, a loading dock, or whatever, to prove that the expediting driver needs to be heard, that we are a vital segment of working America - let me know and we can 'organize' one hell of a showing!

 

[Turtle]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

What they should do is, every motor vehicle in the country should have a black box or some other electronic equivalent that would allow the maximum speed to be dynamically set. Then, at each and every speed limit sign there would be installed a transponder that would broadcast and set the maximum speed when a vehicle passes the posted speed limit sign. The vehicle's maximum speed would stay at that speed until the vehicle passes a different posted speed sign. If you pass a sign that says 45 MPH, then your vehicle (truck, car, motorcycle) would instantly be governed down to 45 MPH. And unless you pass a sign with a different speed limit, the governed speed would stay put. And to keep it fair, all vehicles would be governed at the same speed (the only exception being emergency vehicles, but even their speed should be governed to a safe speed, perhaps 10 MPH over the posted limit).

This would eliminate a lot of the problems that law enforcement, the ATA and many other organizations complain about. It would eliminate high speed car chases, speeding through construction and school zones, and someone who blinked and accidentally missed a speed zone change. It would also eliminate, to a large degree, aggressive driving.

Of course, it would also eliminate a buttload of revenue.

 

[nightcreacher]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

chuck almost all comercial trucks since in the late 90's already have the equal to the black box,it's in the electronics of your engine,5 mins at your dealership and your stuck at what ever speed the government wants

 

[nightcreacher]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

from what ive read,the canadians voted against the black boxes,as they felt would cause many traffic jams,1 truck trying to pass another,doing 1 mph faster than the one he was passing

 

[redytrk]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

The black box I would like to see,is the one that would prevent TAILGATING.

I think I heard it reported one time that the #1 Cause of truck accidents involving another vehicle is TAILGATING.

Ever been in front of those Cowboys in Chicago?

 

[Turtle]

RE: American Trucking Associations pushed HOS regs

Black boxes would only work if every vehicle, 4-wheelers included, were to have them. And in the case of 1 MPH speed differentials, the police would still have ample opportunity for precious revenue. With or without black boxes, the vehicle that is doing the passing has the right-of-way, meaning that it's the responsibility of the slower vehicle to slow down and let the other vehicle pass and come back over.

You don't see tickets for that very often, but I have seen the slow drivers pulled over for it on occasion. Usually after many miles of restrictor plate racing. :+

Of course, I don't actually think black boxes are viable, nor with the voting public stand for it. But, because truckers don't vote...