Am I right or wrong, you peers be my judge

[tr]

First of all was in expediting for 10 years, van freight, had to give it up about a year ago because of war wounds compliments of Uncle Ho, Vietnam. Missed the road so have gone back to work, part time work
which will not aggravate my health situation as I will not be sitting in the truck for days on end.

Having said that here’s my problem which I am confident can be easily answered by many of you, especially straight truck and 18 wheeler operators.

The truck I will be operating is a small one, 12,000 GVWR, single axle, ergo, it comes under the category of a commercial vehicle. I depart empty and proceed from TN into NC to pick up the load from the owners manufacturing facility (company owned) and proceed back to TN, round trip a little over 500 miles.

On the first projected run, I did a pretrip, both inside rear tires were unserviceable, mirror was broken, clearance light was out etc so I refused to take the load. The owner was understanding and had the items replaced/repaired.

During our conversation, he advised that there may be times when I have to wait two or three hours to get loaded and I advised him that I could not run the load legally and explained to him that I would have to log since the vehicle is a commercial vehicle (based on my understanding inasmuch as it is over 10,001 lbs), and that I would not have the required hours make the round trip of 500 miles plus wait the three hours to get loaded.

I also advised him that I would be required to cross any DOT scales. His response was the last drivers over the five years, never logged and never had to go through the scales.

I might add that the box truck does not have any DOT or any other type of markings or sineage whatsoever . Just a plain white box and cab. Nor does it have flares, warning triangles, fire extinguisher etc.

Now, trying to protect myself as well as his interests, have I put my foot in my mouth? For ease of response I place the following.

1. Since this is a private company hauling it’s own manufacturing material, do I have to log?

2. Is this type of vehicle required to have appropriate markings? It crosses state lines.

3. Are warning triangles, fire extinguisher, flares etc mandatory for this vehicle. (will furnish my own until they buy them) just want to make sure I am right.

Any other comments would be appreciated, oh, by the way, have not had any offers to haul his freight since the above, if I am wrong in my assumptions, I will kick myself in the ***, if not, I don’t mind
As I don’t think I would want the possible fines imposed by DOT.

Miss you guys and gals on the road, drive safe.

P.S Now I realize just how valuable the "safety departments" are, an no, they do not have one, too small.

 

[davekc]

Glad to see your back. It appears he has been running the truck under the radar.
Yes to your questions.
Probably the reason the other guy might not be doing the job.
Way to much liability in what you described.
You made the right call in not driving for this guy.
Good luck on the next gig.











Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[greg334]

Yes

Yes

Yes

According to Michigan's laws, every commercial vehicle being used for a commercial venture has to have the right signage and the right numbers on it.

Just because they had drivers running it for 5 years without a problem, you are the person driving it. Just once you need to get into an accident, then you have to deal with other problems.

 

[jasonsprouse]

I doubt that was the reason the last driver quit, unless it was because he had to pay the pile of tickets from running illegal.

You were right to refuse to run the truck.

The owner of the truck probably has no idea of the regulations himself. When I was younger I ran trucks like that and never gave it a second thought (but I know better now).

 

[RichM]

Yes Yes and Yes I would run from this guy,there are plenty of legitimate jobs in trucking that would not require you to run illegal.

 

[tr]

>Yes Yes and Yes I would run from this guy,there are plenty
>of legitimate jobs in trucking that would not require you to
>run illegal.

Thanks for the rapid answers, was appreciated. Was glad to see that I was not totally off base. I will say in the guys defense, he is manufacturing oriented and like most does not have a lot of insite on DOT requirements with only one truck he obviously does not have a transportation office. At least I think he will listen and take some of the conversation to heart. Additionally, have to say he was a pretty nice guy at that, considering what you run into now days. Anyway, thanks guys, drive safe, and have a great thanksgiving.

 

[ATeam]

It sounds like the truck owner is willing to keep up the equipment. And I would think that if he sees in you a reliable and conscientious driver, he will make accomodations to keep you around. If that is not the case, run away as others have said. But if this guy will work with you (you did say he was understanding), the job sounds like a good fit for you and it might be worth the effort to try to make it work.

If one is not already available to you, go to a truck stop and buy a copy of the Federal Moeot Carrier Safety Regulations Pocketbook to show to your employer. A free copy of the CDL manual from your state would help too. It will help him understand what the laws are and that your desire to comply is not based on something out of the blue. If he understands that others have been running illegal, and that he could have been hurt because of it, and that you are trying to keep it clean for both him and you, that would be a feather in your cap (if this guy gets it about compliance).

Hours of Service regulations have changed since you drove years ago. You can now drive 11 hours in a 14 hour time period, as long as you have had 10 hours off duty before. With the scheudule you mention and maybe with a little load scheduling help from your employer and the guys on the dock, the run may be legally doable on a regular basis.

 

[greg334]

My brother-in-law has to deliver in Toledo during the week, his company has the money to put 5 small flat bed trucks on the road and every one of them have DOT numbers (not authority numbers) has a sign on the door and he was required to get a class B with air brake endorsement because the insurance company wants every driver to have a CDL.

So this brings up another point, what is going on with the insurance company in this case?

 

[Jefferson3000]

As far as insurance goes, he may be under the radar with them as well. Being he has a light duty truck, he may actually be insured through someone like State farm, who normally don't do commercial trucks, unless they are under 10,000 lbs of actual vehicle weight. The agents are normally not versed on how to handle interstate for-hire or not-for-hire carriers, so very little auditing exists.

As far as logging goes, once you have started the clock, you can't stop it. But you can log that wait time as off duty and save those driving hours. You will have up to a 14 hour stretch to get the job done.

BTW, unless this company is doing farming or something, they MUST have an MC number.

Drive Safe!

Jeff

Driver for 15 years
O/O for 13 years
OOIDA #829119

[em]"Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed." --Mark Twain[/em]

 

[tmbm]

First let me say I'm glad your able to get back out here, and I hope it works out for you.
I have to disagree with what others have said. I'm certainly not an expert, only speaking from my experiences and understanding. Please check with both TN, and NC DOT's to get clairification.

1. FMSCA and most states, including TN & NC, define a CMV as 26,001 or more GVWR, thus the vehicle your describing would not be a CMV. This being the case no CDL is required.

2. Your reference to "company owned" leads me to believe your not driving for a carrier, rather your driving a truck owned by a company, transporting their material (or product). If this is the case, then the truck is "not for hire" and is exempt from a lot of regulations put on carrier companies.

Under either situation above, your not required to log, unless hauling hazmat, nor are you required to cross scales (Agriculture center and POE's you do have to enter).

>During our conversation, he advised that there may be times
>when I have to wait two or three hours to get loaded and I
>advised him that I could not run the load legally and
>explained to him that I would have to log since the vehicle
>is a commercial vehicle (based on my understanding inasmuch
>as it is over 10,001 lbs), and that I would not have the
>required hours make the round trip of 500 miles plus wait
>the three hours to get loaded.

I'm a little confused here. Granted it would be a long day, but even if required to log, it's doable. If you average 50 MPH, that is 10 hrs of driving, that still leaves 4 hrs for pretrip, fuel and loading. You said 2-3 hours loading, pretrip 15-30 min, fuel 15 min, long day but can be done.

>I might add that the box truck does not have any DOT or any
>other type of markings or sineage whatsoever . Just a plain
>white box and cab. Nor does it have flares, warning
>triangles, fire extinguisher etc.

Not certain here, but I believe "not for hire" trucks not required to display anything. As far as flare, triangles and extinguisher, I would carry these whether they are required or not. Safety!

Again, my best advice to you, is check with DOT. I am certain that at least some of the rules are different due to the fact it's a private company hauling their own material/product. I am also certain that a 12,000 GVWR truck is not considered a CMV, otherwise a lot of people out there are driving illegally. Anyway, the best of luck to you and I hope you check into this more.

 

[tr]

TB, thanks for the input, but...the other guys have nailed it right on the head, pretty much along the line that I was thinking but wanted to make sure I was not saying something that was outdated, out of place etc. The truck is def considered a commercial vehicle, it must scale and must run logs. Per Federal as well as NC state regulations. No great hassel, just wanted to make sure what I told the Mfg Mgr was correct. I am fortunate that this guy is willing to listen, make changes and follow the rules. I am sure that there was no mal intent when he advised that the truck did not have to have DOT numbers, scale, log, etc. Kinda like a bank president, he knows his job but has no idea what the cleaning lady is putting in the toilet. Stay safe, and to all thanks again and have a great thanksgiving.