If you're driving for someone else (he owns the truck) and you have an accident, are you (as the driver) responsible for any truck repair costs? We have a written contract but it says nothing about the driver paying for any truck expenses (accident or otherwise). He owns the truck and he pays for the insurance on the truck. Why should the driver be responsible for any of the repairs? Thanks
Accident
- Thread starter _allan
- Start date
butterfly610
Veteran Expediter
Some of them have you pay the deductible, and some of them split it with you. I would just ask them. We had an owner before that said he split the deductible with you, but I think it was actually stated in his contract. They're all different. It seems like they would put it in their contract to protect themselves, but if not, just ask.
butterfly610
Veteran Expediter
If you're talking about repairs...cause I just re-read that and saw you were talking about other things also...not too many make the driver pay for "repairs" or anything else related to the truck. Accidents would probably be the only thing they might get you on. They should have put that info in their contract so their drivers would know. In ours, we don't pay for any of the repairs, or any expenses that are involved in running the truck. If we have to pay for something, we always get reimbursed for it. But we never have to pay for any kind of repair.
I see two seperate issues. If it is a repair, I think the owner should pay for it. If it is an accident, it then turns to who is at fault. If the other party is at fault, I would pay for the repairs and make the necessary arrangements to get reimbursed through the insurance company.
If the driver of my truck is at fault, then they have to pay for damages up to the deductible amount. Why should I as a owner pay?
That is assuming they are independent contractors.
If we are talking employees, then I would pay all damages regardless, but my requirements for employment would be much different.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
If the driver of my truck is at fault, then they have to pay for damages up to the deductible amount. Why should I as a owner pay?
That is assuming they are independent contractors.
If we are talking employees, then I would pay all damages regardless, but my requirements for employment would be much different.
Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator
And part of being the driver is properly caring for the equipment. If you drive for an owner and have an at-fault accident, it's your dime to cover the deductible, same as a freight damage claim.
Slow and steady, even in expediting, wins the race - Aesop
Slow and steady, even in expediting, wins the race - Aesop
I don't know about that. Does a Roadway driver pay for a freight damage claim. The answer is no,it comes back to the defenition of an employee vs a contractor. Someone who drives a fleet owners truck with no financial interest in the truck is an employee. Now this employee may be free to make decisions as too what loads he/she accepts and rejects without out the owners input but still is an employee. He/she can walk away any time. The owner now has the repairs,the maintenance the insurance etc.
I think it would make a great topic on EO to have some experienced transportation attorneys look at the expediting industry and life style and advise what is truly an employee and what is a IC.
I think it would make a great topic on EO to have some experienced transportation attorneys look at the expediting industry and life style and advise what is truly an employee and what is a IC.
ndfan, I totally disagree. Why should I as the owner pay for an accident if my driver is at fault? Why shouldn't the driver pay for his mistake? That's called responsibility. Now, if the driver of another vehicle is at fault and causes the accident then of course my driver shouldn't pay anything. As Dave already said, I'd pay and then the insurance company can subrogate the claim against the other individual or their insurance. If you loan your car to someone and they wreck it, in which case the insurance isn't going to pay fully, are you going to pay or ask them to pay for what they did?
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB
OOIDA Life Member 677319, JOIN NOW
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
mrgoodtude
Not a Member
Simple to me even as a contractor.
Was the accident deemed preventable?
If so you should own the deductable.
Mike
Was the accident deemed preventable?
If so you should own the deductable.
Mike
arkjarhead
Veteran Expediter
I got into a situation once where I was involved in a hit and run. I was hit by a pick up and they ran. I was in Kansas City in the middle lane of a 3 lane freeway. I'm passing a slow moving vehicle with a vehicle behind me and a vehicle to my left. When the vehicle to my right starts veering towards me. I can a) weeve to the left and hit the soccer mom in the mini van with kids in tow b) slam on the brakes and let the vehicle behind me rear end me or c) let the vehicle on my right hit me. I let the vehicle on my right hit me. Blue Ford pick up. Tore my truck all the heck.
I pull to the side he continues down the road. I call 911. State trooper comes out and makes an accident report. Then I call the company that the truck was leased to. After talking to safety they say go deliver call back in the morning. Then I call the owner. As soon as I said I there was an acident he got mad. He didn't ask if I was ok. He asked about the truck and then proceeded to blame me and said it was my fault before asking what happened. I told him he could call me back when he was ready to talk to me with a civil tongue.
Next morning at 5 am saftey lady calls raising cane. Wants to know what happened. Every time I try to start explaining she asks again what happened. After going thru this about 15 times I told her if she would hold on one dam minute I would tell her.
Well she hung up and reported me. The company forced me to deadhead to Ohio to apologize before I would be given another load. Now the owner wants me to pay for a new box and passenger side fuel tank to be added to his truck plus pay for the deadhead. The dh I somewhat understood because it was my mouth that caused the problem. The owner was from Cleveland. So I stopped by to visit with him. He starts showing me pictures of this high dollar box he wanted me to buy that was worth more than the one that was on their before the accident. I told him he was crazy if he thought I was paying for an accident that was no way, shape, or form my fault. He got in my face and cussed me. I went and packed my stuff. He got in my face and cussed me again. I told him to give me my check. He gave me my check then got in my face again. This time I told him I was about to kick his azz. He said if you swing at me I'll sue you. Alot of bark but no bite. I was broke from driving for him. When his wife drove me to the airport she said they couldn't keep any good drivers because her husband ran off all the hard working ones but the lazy ones seem to stay around forever.
The morale of the story is if the accident wouldv'e been my fault I wouldv'e paid the deductiable. If I couldn't afford it all at once I would have asked if he could work with me to take small amounts out of my check til it was paid in full. If he wouldn't work with me I'd walk. I consider myself to be an honest, hardworking guy. My wife will tell anyone both of the fleet owners I worked for I treated with respect. The first one just pushed me to far. So to end my rambling if it was your fault you should at the very least offer to pony up at least half if not all the deductable. If it wasn't your fault I wouldn't give him one red cent. If it was your fault by paying that deductable you could turn a bad refernce into a decent or good one.
I pull to the side he continues down the road. I call 911. State trooper comes out and makes an accident report. Then I call the company that the truck was leased to. After talking to safety they say go deliver call back in the morning. Then I call the owner. As soon as I said I there was an acident he got mad. He didn't ask if I was ok. He asked about the truck and then proceeded to blame me and said it was my fault before asking what happened. I told him he could call me back when he was ready to talk to me with a civil tongue.
Next morning at 5 am saftey lady calls raising cane. Wants to know what happened. Every time I try to start explaining she asks again what happened. After going thru this about 15 times I told her if she would hold on one dam minute I would tell her.
Well she hung up and reported me. The company forced me to deadhead to Ohio to apologize before I would be given another load. Now the owner wants me to pay for a new box and passenger side fuel tank to be added to his truck plus pay for the deadhead. The dh I somewhat understood because it was my mouth that caused the problem. The owner was from Cleveland. So I stopped by to visit with him. He starts showing me pictures of this high dollar box he wanted me to buy that was worth more than the one that was on their before the accident. I told him he was crazy if he thought I was paying for an accident that was no way, shape, or form my fault. He got in my face and cussed me. I went and packed my stuff. He got in my face and cussed me again. I told him to give me my check. He gave me my check then got in my face again. This time I told him I was about to kick his azz. He said if you swing at me I'll sue you. Alot of bark but no bite. I was broke from driving for him. When his wife drove me to the airport she said they couldn't keep any good drivers because her husband ran off all the hard working ones but the lazy ones seem to stay around forever.
The morale of the story is if the accident wouldv'e been my fault I wouldv'e paid the deductiable. If I couldn't afford it all at once I would have asked if he could work with me to take small amounts out of my check til it was paid in full. If he wouldn't work with me I'd walk. I consider myself to be an honest, hardworking guy. My wife will tell anyone both of the fleet owners I worked for I treated with respect. The first one just pushed me to far. So to end my rambling if it was your fault you should at the very least offer to pony up at least half if not all the deductable. If it wasn't your fault I wouldn't give him one red cent. If it was your fault by paying that deductable you could turn a bad refernce into a decent or good one.
"If he wouldn't work with me i'd walk" That seems to be a prevailing attitude amongst the pool we have to work with out there. Seems folks actually believe they have no responsibility for anything except making freight go from point A, to point B, and collect. Don't quite work that way.
If the crash were "preventable", of course you should pony up.
Some other things to consider is.....
If the truck were disabled, and behind a cyclone fence, where would you sleep at night?
If the truck were disabled, how would you get home??
To those of you running around out there with the prevailing attitude about "drivers responsibilities", best rethink your position. Big brother can/will only go so far for YOU.
If the crash were "preventable", of course you should pony up.
Some other things to consider is.....
If the truck were disabled, and behind a cyclone fence, where would you sleep at night?
If the truck were disabled, how would you get home??
To those of you running around out there with the prevailing attitude about "drivers responsibilities", best rethink your position. Big brother can/will only go so far for YOU.
>I think it would make a great topic on EO to have some
>experienced transportation attorneys look at the expediting
>industry and life style and advise what is truly an employee
>and what is a IC.
I believe that the IRS is starting to look into this now. I am sure there will be fleet owners finding out they have employees rather than contractors.
>experienced transportation attorneys look at the expediting
>industry and life style and advise what is truly an employee
>and what is a IC.
I believe that the IRS is starting to look into this now. I am sure there will be fleet owners finding out they have employees rather than contractors.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
"If you're driving for someone else (he owns the truck) and you have an accident, are you (as the driver) responsible for any truck repair costs? We have a written contract but it says nothing about the driver paying for any truck expenses (accident or otherwise). He owns the truck and he pays for the insurance on the truck."
"Why should the driver be responsible for any of the repairs?"
First thing is, the independent contractor thing will not be a factor in this business as many think it will. The IRS is reviewing the status of drivers who are being told how to drive and other things that effect the way the contractors operate.
Second x06col pointed out the most important thing, if the accident is preventable. I had in my contracts a very clear statement - if the driver's is at fault, he pays for the deductible and the transportation of getting that vehicle back here if it can't be driven and needs to be returned to this area for repair (which I doubt it would ever need to be) but only if it is his fault. This is a fair and equatable solution to an issue. I don't pay for hotels or transportation for the driver if it is his fault.
To me if it is in the contract, then the issue has been addressed to the point there is no gray ares of responsibility.
Remember in todays twisted world, a contract is needed for everything and it protects the driver as much as it protects the owner.
"Why should the driver be responsible for any of the repairs?"
First thing is, the independent contractor thing will not be a factor in this business as many think it will. The IRS is reviewing the status of drivers who are being told how to drive and other things that effect the way the contractors operate.
Second x06col pointed out the most important thing, if the accident is preventable. I had in my contracts a very clear statement - if the driver's is at fault, he pays for the deductible and the transportation of getting that vehicle back here if it can't be driven and needs to be returned to this area for repair (which I doubt it would ever need to be) but only if it is his fault. This is a fair and equatable solution to an issue. I don't pay for hotels or transportation for the driver if it is his fault.
To me if it is in the contract, then the issue has been addressed to the point there is no gray ares of responsibility.
Remember in todays twisted world, a contract is needed for everything and it protects the driver as much as it protects the owner.
tallcal101
Veteran Expediter
This just supports my contention that you can write a 100 page contract,but until the difference (legal difference)between what we loosly call an "independent contractor"(who are 1099' employees)and actual employees,this contract banter is all jiberish.One of these days(God forbid)an "independant" driver is going to slide across their lane and cause a head on with loss of life.Thats when this whole deal about whats an owner and an independent contractor employee driver will come to light.Until then,it's just grist for the mill,in my opinion.
There's a reason the big trucking companies have large legal staffs and clearly defined job descriptions,and legal responsibilities for drivers.Indpendent contractors do exisit in trucking,but they are pretty much limited to owners who lease to carriers.Drivers who have no risk and just driver for owners(sub contractors)are not independant contractors.I have yet to hear anything on this forum that makes me feel differently.Thats why your contracts are really useless,unless ofcouse the driver is also making truck payments and has their name on the title.Paying for oil changes and buying light bulbs does not qualify as risk.
There's a reason the big trucking companies have large legal staffs and clearly defined job descriptions,and legal responsibilities for drivers.Indpendent contractors do exisit in trucking,but they are pretty much limited to owners who lease to carriers.Drivers who have no risk and just driver for owners(sub contractors)are not independant contractors.I have yet to hear anything on this forum that makes me feel differently.Thats why your contracts are really useless,unless ofcouse the driver is also making truck payments and has their name on the title.Paying for oil changes and buying light bulbs does not qualify as risk.
Scuba
Veteran Expediter
Sorry you are the owner and that is part of the risk you take when you hire someone. If I was driving your truck <<<your truck being the key words. Then I am not responsible for any damage unless it was done on purpose. I don’t see an accident as something done on purpose. This is not the same as using your neighbor’s car this is a business. Who benefits the most from this truck you or the driver? You do so you have to accept the risk. I had one other truck and the driver in that truck was under a lease purchase contract. Now that driver has an interest in the truck and is responsible for ALL bills to that truck accident and or repairs. That is the difference and I also believe that many owners are going to be in serious trouble once the IRS decides to hammer you. And let’s face it they will if it means they get to take more of your income.
Panther Solo Tractor
Panther Solo Tractor
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Tallcal,
I can tell you what the word RISK in conjunction with a the word driver(sub-contractor) means to many who advise me -
When you put a driver (sub-contractor) in the driver's seat and hand them over a $15,000 ($100,000) vehicle and you allow a driver (sub-contractor) to make the decision on what loads a driver(sub-contractor) takes, when a driver(sub-contractor) takes them and how a driver (sub-contractor) operates the vehicle outside of the actual driving (meaning relocation and positioning, etc..), the risk is in their hands to make professional decisions to produce revenue in order to be paid.
The word RISK in conjunction with the word employee means to many who advise me -
When you put a driver (sub-contractor) in the driver's seat and hand them over a $15,000 ($100,000) vehicle and you make the decision on what loads a driver (sub-contractor) takes and you tell a driver (sub-contractor) how to operate the vehicle outside of the actual driving, the risk is in your hands to make professional decisions to produce the revenue.
When I had the consulting firm, the same definitions were applied there, I could tell the contractors what to do but telling them how to do it put me on that thin line between employee and contractor which was uncomfortable.
Large trucking companies get away with a lot, they force people to take loads and take the decision making process away from them outside of that truck. I contend that there is a lot of stuff thrown around because of a lot of ambiguity that has exists in this niche market but a contract is there to help both parties define responsibilities and the days where you can trust someone to do a job, even a brother or sister, are long gone.
I can tell you what the word RISK in conjunction with a the word driver(sub-contractor) means to many who advise me -
When you put a driver (sub-contractor) in the driver's seat and hand them over a $15,000 ($100,000) vehicle and you allow a driver (sub-contractor) to make the decision on what loads a driver(sub-contractor) takes, when a driver(sub-contractor) takes them and how a driver (sub-contractor) operates the vehicle outside of the actual driving (meaning relocation and positioning, etc..), the risk is in their hands to make professional decisions to produce revenue in order to be paid.
The word RISK in conjunction with the word employee means to many who advise me -
When you put a driver (sub-contractor) in the driver's seat and hand them over a $15,000 ($100,000) vehicle and you make the decision on what loads a driver (sub-contractor) takes and you tell a driver (sub-contractor) how to operate the vehicle outside of the actual driving, the risk is in your hands to make professional decisions to produce the revenue.
When I had the consulting firm, the same definitions were applied there, I could tell the contractors what to do but telling them how to do it put me on that thin line between employee and contractor which was uncomfortable.
Large trucking companies get away with a lot, they force people to take loads and take the decision making process away from them outside of that truck. I contend that there is a lot of stuff thrown around because of a lot of ambiguity that has exists in this niche market but a contract is there to help both parties define responsibilities and the days where you can trust someone to do a job, even a brother or sister, are long gone.