ACA Another take

[layoutshooter]

There is no such thing as a "Free Lunch". There is no sustainable program that promises a Rolls at Chevy prices. Only fools believe that is a possibility, fools and politicians. Obama Care cannot work, it was a lie from the start and it was written by fools, at best.

Two paragraphs from the article:

"It’s popular now to suggest that the staggering incompetence that gave us Obamacare is limited to a flawed website. If only that were true. In truth, Obamacare’s problems merely begin with the website, and will grow much worse assuming Heathcare.gov is ever fixed.

That is so because contrary to its billing as a market-based exchange, it’s nothing of the sort. Healthcare.gov at its core is a wealth redistribution scheme that promises to fail for it ignoring basic economics."



President Obama Clearly Never Worked For Goldman Sachs







President Obama Clearly Never Worked For Goldman Sachs - Forbes

 

[davekc]

He has never worked in a business period. And that would include a kids lemonade stand.

 

[LDB]

He will likely never work a day in his life and if he ever miraculously does it will likely be something primarily counterproductive and harmful like ACLU attorney.

 

[paullud]

In truth, Obamacare’s problems merely begin with the website, and will grow much worse assuming Heathcare.gov is ever fixed.

I disagree with this. The problems with Obamacare didn't start with the website, they started as soon as they began creating the law. Instead of keeping it simple they created a massive, overreaching, confusing pile of garbage that was written with the help of lobby groups to benefit businesses not people.

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[layoutshooter]

The BEST way to help bring down the cost of health insurance, short of outlawing it, is to the the government out of it. The fraud, like with all massive government redistribution of wealth government programs, is already starting. It will grow as the program grows. Scam artists are already jumping on the band wagon. The welfare system, Medicare, Medicaid, are all full of fraud. Obama Care will be no different.

 

[WanderngFool]

I disagree with this. The problems with Obamacare didn't start with the website, they started as soon as they began creating the law. Instead of keeping it simple they created a massive, overreaching, confusing pile of garbage that was written with the help of lobby groups to benefit businesses not people.

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I agree.

It seems to me the left wanted something akin to medicare but to compromise with the right and get legislation passed, they created a feeding trough for insurance companies to get fat on. Probably with the hope that in the long run it will all work out, because eventually they'll be able to cut insurance companies out of the deal.

I'm afraid their crystal ball might be out of alignment on this one. Big business and rich people in general have a way of coming out ahead. Unrelated but a great case in point: The Twitter IPO last week. Friends and preferred customers of Goldman Sachs got in at $26 a share. People like you and me could get in at $45. The stock is now $42.90.

 

[davekc]

I read today that the good news is with Obamacare is that they signed up 440,000 people for medicaid.
The bad news is only 50,000 signed up in the exchanges. Since the 440,000 is Free Insurance, they don't have anyone to pay for it. Oops, I guess they do. Wait until people see those rates on the exchanges in a year. Think they are high now, wait until you put all those getting free insurance in there. We would have been better off just giving everyone 5 to 10k a year for insurance and forget the rest of it.

 

[tknight]

They'd find a way to screw that up too!

 

[davekc]

Probably so. I will give them credit though, the 50k that signed up I believe are the navigators.

 

[WanderngFool]

Wow. Even Forbes is examining how craptastic health "insurance" has been.

Estimate Of 'Junk' Health Insurance Market - Over 1,200 Plans Covering Almost 4 Million People - Forbes

 

[paullud]

Wow. Even Forbes is examining how craptastic health "insurance" has been.

Estimate Of 'Junk' Health Insurance Market - Over 1,200 Plans Covering Almost 4 Million People - Forbes

They are talking about discount plans not health insurance so that should be red flag #1. Why did you use the term "Even Forbes" as though it was surprising? You do realize that Forbes magazine has a reputation for liberal articles, not 100% but a lot of them.

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[WanderngFool]

They are talking about discount plans not health insurance so that should be red flag #1. Why did you use the term "Even Forbes" as though it was surprising? You do realize that Forbes magazine has a reputation for liberal articles, not 100% but a lot of them.

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Well the title of the article is
Estimate Of 'Junk' Health Insurance Market - Over 1,200 Plans Covering Almost 4 Million People


And then there's this:

The stories are hard to imagine – including this one (among others) in that same Consumer Reports article (here):
In September 2010, Missouri regulators issued more than $1 million in fines against 13 companies and individuals that sold discount plans misrepresented as comprehensive health insurance. Regulators said many were promoted through faxes advertising “AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE PLANS!” and consumers were told, “This is not a discount plan!” One woman bought a plan to get the advertised free flu shot. A year and a half later, all she had to show for her $1,717 in payments was one denied claim … for the flu shot.

"AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE PLANS!” and consumers were told, “This is not a discount plan!”

Are you seeing something different?

Oh and no, I didn't realize that anyone at Forbes had a liberal or even moderate bone in their bodies.

 

[witness23]

lmao at post's 10, 11 and 12. Thank you both for a good chuckle.

 

[paullud]

Well the title of the article is
Estimate Of 'Junk' Health Insurance Market - Over 1,200 Plans Covering Almost 4 Million People


And then there's this:





"AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE PLANS!” and consumers were told, “This is not a discount plan!”

Are you seeing something different?

Oh and no, I didn't realize that anyone at Forbes had a liberal or even moderate bone in their bodies.

The title is just one of the problems as it implies it is an article on regular insurance companies when it is not.

There was a single company that misbehaved and was rightfully shutdown, but you can't take the actions of one company that didn't follow the rules and try to pretend it is the entire industry.

Forbes magazine has a lot of liberal bias articles because they have liberal authors. It also has a lot of conservative bias articles for the same reason.

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[WanderngFool]

There was a single company that misbehaved and was rightfully shutdown, but you can't take the actions of one company that didn't follow the rules and try to pretend it is the entire industry.

Well here is the exact same paragraph I quoted earlier:

In September 2010, Missouri regulators issued more than $1 million in fines against 13 companies and individuals that sold discount plans misrepresented as comprehensive health insurance. Regulators said many were promoted through faxes advertising “AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE PLANS!” and consumers were told, “This is not a discount plan!” One woman bought a plan to get the advertised free flu shot. A year and a half later, all she had to show for her $1,717 in payments was one denied claim … for the flu shot.

Doesn't the first sentence say that it's 13 companies, and that's in just one state?

 

[Turtle]

Associated Press Nov. 13, 2013 3:31 PM ET
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR and LAURIE KELLMAN

WASHINGTON (AP) — The administration says fewer than 27,000 people managed to enroll for health insurance last month in the 36 states relying on the problem-filled federal website for President Barack Obama's overhaul.

The dismal numbers released Wednesday by federal health officials were even lower than estimates recently circulated. There was one bright spot: States running their own websites did better than the feds, reporting more than 79,000 sign-ups.

Even so, total private insurance enrollment after the first month of the health care rollout was only about one-fifth what the administration had expected during that time period.

Enrollment numbers totaled 106,185. A Sept. 5 administration estimate had projected that 494,620 people would enroll in the first month.

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius says she expects things to improve.

 

[Turtle]

106,185.... that's a Saturday afternoon at Neylan Stadium.

 

[paullud]

Well here is the exact same paragraph I quoted earlier:



Doesn't the first sentence say that it's 13 companies, and that's in just one state?

Actually it says 13 companies and individuals, which breaks down as 7 companies and 6 people but they were all working together on the same scam. One person was the president at a company, fined as an individual but then his company was a third party to that company and so on but all basically part of the same action. It is not well phrased in the story which was probably done intentionally. If this clearly biased contributor (author) has the ability to show the stats for one state why not others? Likely because there really isn't much of an issue and the author is trying to blow things out of proportion. This is an article that you have to ask what is missing rather than just relying on what is there.

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[davekc]

106,185.... that's a Saturday afternoon at Neylan Stadium.

I still think the 27k is really just the navigators that signed up. They aren't talking.

 

[WanderngFool]

I still think the 27k is really just the navigators that signed up. They aren't talking.

"Navigators" is going clear over my head and making me feel extra stoopid. What is Navigators?

Why are people not signing up? Off the top of my head:

1. It's a nationwide monumental newsworthy CF and anyone that's dumb enough to sign up right now might find themselves interviewed and portrayed on the evening news in a not so flattering way.

2. It's a nationwide monumental CF and it's probably better to wait until things are in a settled state lest you waste time filling out forms and then have to do it again.

3. Akin to #2 but let someone else be the guinea pig, I've got better things to do.

4. If the penalty for the first year is only like $50 or $100 and they can't disqualify you for pre-existing conditions then isn't the bargain-path to wait until year 2 to sign up? (of course this assumes you don't find yourself in the emergency ward sometime during 2014 with a slip and fall accident)