Abortion

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
From a public health point of view, abortion care, no less than contraception, is an essential measure to prevent the heartbreak of infant mortality, and to prevent another tragedy as well -- maternal death.

Terry O'Neill, NOW president in an article for Huffington.

Typical. There's a very small chance a baby might die at birth which would be heartbreaking. Solution, murder it guaranteeing it is dead.
 

xmudman

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
It isn't always that simple. I hate the idea of elective abortion (the "I don't want a baby right now" kind) with the white hot intensity of a thousand blazing suns. However, it is an invasive medical procedure, so it needs to be safe. We cannot bring back the coat hanger.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I'm just pointing out the idiocy of the pro death camp.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Well, like it or not, the ONLY way to abort is to kill a living entity. Just is a fact of science. Life, without a doubt, absolutely begins at conception. That too is a fact of science.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It seems to me, those that are for capital punishment, are pro death.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
What I think it so funny is, the same crowd that strongly supports abortion is the same crowd that strongly supports Child Protective Services.
 
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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
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What I think it so funny is, the same crowd that strongly supports abortion is the same crowd that strongly supports Child Protective Services.

Amazing how that happens.
 
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cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
What I think it so funny is, the same crowd that strongly supports abortion is the same crowd that strongly supports Child Protective Services.

Speaking only for myself, I support both because every child should be wanted and cared for. That's not to say CPS is always in the right, [maybe they need to 'find abuse' to justify their jobs?] but I know very well that not every person who can be a parent should be.
 

Turtle

Administrator
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Retired Expediter
Oh, yeah, and they use the rationalization that, well, it's the mother's choice and her own business what she does with her unborn child, but once the kids are born then it's everybody's business. This is the pro-abortion, anti-death penalty bunch. They completely reject the moral and philosophical moral equivalency of pro-choice and anti-death penalty. They don't see a contradiction at all. Because, they don't see abortion as ending a life, they see it as a mother's right to choose, and he death penalty becomes a completely different issue.

The anti-abortion crowd who wants to put as many people on death row as possible is certainly steeped in the same hypocrisy. They don't see it as a contradiction, either, and they also completely reject the moral and philosophical moral equivalency of pro-death penalty and anti-abortion. But what links anti-abortion and pro-death penalty is a sort of fundamentalism, a literal interpretation of the Bible, and an inflexible way of viewing society in general. There's a punitive attitude toward both of these issues - more or less like, if you don't want a child, don't engage in risky sexual behavior; if you kill someone, you deserve death.

You'd think people would be more consistent with their death wishes, like people would be anti-abortion and anti-death penalty, or they would be pro-choice and pro-death penalty. But no. Only about 8 percent of Americans are consistent when surveyed on studies. I find that astonishing. Especially when you consider the Catholic Church after centuries of bread and butter capital punishment now has the official stance of the Consistent Life Ethic, where the "seamless garment" philosophy (referencing the seamless robe of Jesus) holds that issues such as abortion, capital punishment, militarism (unjust war), euthanasia, social injustice, and economic injustice all demand a consistent application of moral principles that value the sacredness of human life.

When you have people who are against the death penalty and for abortion, it's pure politics. And when you get people who are against abortion and for the death penalty, that's not even so much a religious effect as it is a politics effect. Turns out, politics trumps any religion. And isn't that just hilarious.

I'm for people minding their own business and not telling others what to do. If you are against abortion, great, don't have one. If you are for abortion, well OK then, but don't expect me to help pay for it. If you are pro capital punishment, fine, but you have to make absolutely certain that an innocent person never ever be put to death by mistake, because if that happens, you're murdering the innocent, just like killing innocent babies.

One interesting question to ask yourself is, if you are opposed to abortion but favor capital punishment, or you are the other way around and favor abortion but are opposed to the death penalty, if you could get your wish for one of them, but had to give up the other, which one would you keep?
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
What I think it so funny is, the same crowd that strongly supports abortion is the same crowd that strongly supports Child Protective Services.

I don't see the seamless logic there?

If the people that should have had an abortion..(the irresponsible for whatever reason)...did have one, then less child protection would be necessary?

Forcing anyone to have a child because of religious beliefs is asinine...especially for a country partly built on the premise to escape religious persecutions?.....just my 2 cents...:)
 

Unclebob

Expert Expediter
Owner/Operator
I am pro-choice. I am anti-abortion. A contradiction? No!

No matter how much some people want everything to be black or white, yes or no that is not how the world works.

My personal beliefs are just that. PERSONAL and BELIEFS. I do not believe that when a sperm fertilizes an egg that that clump of cells has a soul. Somewhere between that point and the time that a fetus can be born and be a functioning human being I believe God grants it a soul. I don't KNOW where exactly that point is. I believe it happens later in the pregnancy rather than sooner. I believe that once there is a soul it is morally wrong to have an abortion.

Other people have different views and beliefs. They range from a soul is created immediately to there is no soul.


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Unclebob

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Sorry hit send by accident.

God gave us FREE WILL. It is up to each of us to find our moral way through life. That is why I'm pro-choice. If it's good enough for God than I have to except that. I have no right to impose my beliefs on someone else. SOCIETY decides what is allowable behavior and passes laws to reflect that.


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Turtle

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Staff member
Retired Expediter
I don't see the seamless logic there?

If the people that should have had an abortion..(the irresponsible for whatever reason)...did have one, then less child protection would be necessary?
That's because there is no logic to it. The pro-abortion crowd screams that it's a mothers choice to do with her body and her unborn child whatever she wishes. But as soon as the child is born, they want that choice removed from the mother and will use CPS to protect that child at all costs, including in cases of unsubstantiated allegations. If you want to kill your unborn child that's fine, but you'd better not spank it at the grocery store when it's a little older.
 

Unclebob

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That's because there is no logic to it. The pro-abortion crowd screams that it's a mothers choice to do with her body and her unborn child whatever she wishes. But as soon as the child is born, they want that choice removed from the mother and will use CPS to protect that child at all costs, including in cases of unsubstantiated allegations. If you want to kill your unborn child that's fine, but you'd better not spank it at the grocery store when it's a little older.

I am pro-choice NOT pro-abortion. A woman that wants to abort her 8 month fetus should go to jail and the child should be immediately removed from her upon birth.

I don't believe any unborn CHILD should be aborted. But it all depends on when a non-viable fetus becomes a child with a soul. Or if YOU prefer when a non-viable fetus ceases to be a mass of cells no different than an appendix and can sustain it's own basic life functions outside the mother's body. That becomes a medical and philosophical discussion.

I would prefer that no one got an abortion. Most pro-choice supporters have similar beliefs. To label us pro-abortion is just a cheap tactic to demonize us and mis-represent our beliefs.

Does child services over reach? Do they miss true cases of abuse? Sure. Do they rescue kids from hellish conditions? Do they literally save children's live? Of course they do. Are they under staffed and handcuffed by red tape. Yep. Do they do the best they can in a difficult job. Yep


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Turtle

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Retired Expediter
I would prefer that no one got an abortion. Most pro-choice supporters have similar beliefs. To label us pro-abortion is just a cheap tactic to demonize us and mis-represent our beliefs.
I use the term "pro-abortion" to differentiate if from "anti-abortion." I use all the various political terms more or less interchangeably, mainly because that's how most people tend to discuss the matter.

But "pro-abortion" and "anti-abortion" are really the only politically neutral terms for it. The pro-lifer people came up with that term because the opposition of that is pro-death, to demonize the opposition, and the pro-choice people came up with that one because the opposite of that is anti-choice, to demonize the opposition.

Both pro-life and pro-choice are terms used by the respective sides to not only demonize the other, but so they can feel morally just in their cause. "Hey, I'm not pro-abortion, I'm pro CHOICE!" "Hey, I'm not anti-choice, I'm pro LIFE!"

You're either for abortion or you're not, everything else is political labeling.

I'm pro-MindYourOwnBusiness. If you want to have an abortion, that's your call. If you don't want to have an abortion, that's your call. The only people who should be able to make a decision on having a baby or not is the mother, with the guy who got her pregnant allowed to have some input. It's nobody else's business.

You should be able to decide whether or not to have a baby, and if you decide to have one, it's yours and you should be able to raise it any way you see fit with no outside interference.
 

Unclebob

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You should be able to decide whether or not to have a baby, and if you decide to have one, it's yours and you should be able to raise it any way you see fit with no outside interference.

So wild sex parties with the little tykes is okay by you if the parents want to raise their kids that way.

Discipline can be carried out with 40 lashes of the scourge.

Hey it's totally up to the parents.

You might want to reconsider your position. Or maybe not.


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