A Verbal Thrashing...
- Thread starter copdsux
- Start date
“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.”
The flip side to that statement is "any apathetic bystander can elect to do nothing", and we all know what happens (according to Edmund Burke) when good men do nothing. There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism.
Now about the teachers and their union: anyone see this op-ed in the Wall St. Journal today?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903454504576486600501683330.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
(you'll have to copy & paste this link into your browser)
If that's not good reason for parents to "criticize, condemn and complain", than no reason exists.
The flip side to that statement is "any apathetic bystander can elect to do nothing", and we all know what happens (according to Edmund Burke) when good men do nothing. There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism.
Now about the teachers and their union: anyone see this op-ed in the Wall St. Journal today?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903454504576486600501683330.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
(you'll have to copy & paste this link into your browser)
If that's not good reason for parents to "criticize, condemn and complain", than no reason exists.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I assume then that most of you want stupid and dumb children as a result of the present public school system.
His comments were more offensive than anything that you all can say so I will continue to put my efforts into fighting the abuse that happens in public schools and ignore the critics here.
His comments were more offensive than anything that you all can say so I will continue to put my efforts into fighting the abuse that happens in public schools and ignore the critics here.
witness23
Veteran Expediter
If you as a parent(not sure if you are or not) allow your children to be stupid and dumb, it is not because of the public school system.
Offensive? In what way?
fortwayne
Not a Member
So teachers, who have tenure, who have nothing to lose, and are protected by their unions are the best solution?
No they are not.
What is the solution is a paid merit system.
Teachers get paid on their own merits on the performance and results they bring to the students.
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No they are not.
What is the solution is a paid merit system.
Teachers get paid on their own merits on the performance and results they bring to the students.
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OK, from the "real" computer with flashplayer, according to omniscient Matt, "That's like saying a teacher is going to get lazy when they have tenure. A teacher wants to teach. I mean, why else would you take a bleep salary and really long hours unless you really want to do it?".
Let's give omniscient Matt and teachers the benefit of the doubt. Let's say none of them are lazy. Let's even go all the way out on the limb and say none of them are in it to indoctrinate leftist ideals even though we know both statements are false.
OK, so we have these perky energetic people who would never consider prejudicial teachings to indoctrinate youthful minds incapable of recognizing the lies being fed to them. Now, since we have these ideal individuals doing perfect jobs we have to wonder why we have so many problems with failure and limited achievement.
Ohhh, wait, could it be the negative influence of the federal government and teacher's unions who care nothing about children and achievement and education, nothing at all, and everything about union politics, regular politics, money and greed.
I don't fully agree with Damon, but I do agree there are many good teachers. The problem is there are many bad teachers protected by a system that is all for them and none for the students and parents too.
Let's give omniscient Matt and teachers the benefit of the doubt. Let's say none of them are lazy. Let's even go all the way out on the limb and say none of them are in it to indoctrinate leftist ideals even though we know both statements are false.
OK, so we have these perky energetic people who would never consider prejudicial teachings to indoctrinate youthful minds incapable of recognizing the lies being fed to them. Now, since we have these ideal individuals doing perfect jobs we have to wonder why we have so many problems with failure and limited achievement.
Ohhh, wait, could it be the negative influence of the federal government and teacher's unions who care nothing about children and achievement and education, nothing at all, and everything about union politics, regular politics, money and greed.
I don't fully agree with Damon, but I do agree there are many good teachers. The problem is there are many bad teachers protected by a system that is all for them and none for the students and parents too.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
A bunch. Most if not all of them know what I say is right - WHICH I didn't say here. I focused on Damon's comments and the fact that our school system in this country s*cks and equal to that of a third world.
The problems we face are based on a very bad concept that money fixes everything and this is especially true in the public school system. We have increased spending in the schools and produced less equipped and less intelligent adults in comparison to a lot of countries we are competing against.
Every successful school has a few key factors involved - accountability, cost control and no union.
Many who don't understand that the teacher's hands are tied not just by the parents but by the system itself tend to ignore the real problem while focusing on the money and how much the kid is learning.
I WANT THAT CHANGED and I don't want to see the blame of the teachers go on as much as I don't want to see their plight used as a political vehicle to squeeze more money out of us, the tax payer.
Give the teachers the right tools and freedom to teach at the same time remove the administrators and the bottle necks that they cause along with the layers upon layers of bureaucracy that has formed a protective wall in the system to continue its life AND you will have a better educated group of children.
The trade off is too simple and has to be done, giving the system back to local control so they can make decisions about their kids which by the way is far better than having three layers of people to go through to come up with a policy on how to teach kids something.
Matt Damon's comments are offensive because he is assuming that it is the teachers who need defending when it is the children who are really the victims here. He was there offering his support to the teacher's union which in itself is destructive to the child who wants to learn by allowing the system to keep bad teachers.
My daughter is a teacher. She is fluent in ASL, American Sign Language. She teaches special ed kids, primarily those with autism as well as others. She knows many good teachers. She also recognizes and knows a number of teachers who are in it because it was what they thought they could get through college to do and some just for the money. Yes, just for the money, as it pays more than "hello, welcome to Walmart.".
witness23
Veteran Expediter
The student complains to his parents about his teacher. The parent sides with the teacher. The parent goes to the teacher and the principal (without the students knowledge) to see if there is a problem. If there is a problem, the parent, teacher and principal come up with a solution. The end.
Not in any school system my kids were in. The principal TOLD us what we were going to do with our problem. It was his option or move schools. He flat out told us that HE was in charge of my child, not us. He did NOT accept the notion that he worked for the tax payer. The end.
So what are you doing to help change this??WELL... Besides pecking away @ that keyboard telling people to keep there mouth shut....who are you to tell Matt to keep his mouth shut...you keep your mouth shut....how about that....you are real.good at telling everybody what's wrong in this world.....again what do you do.to.help change anything...you volunteer...join any committees..run for public office...anything...just wondering..my guess is you sit and rant...tell everybody how it is supposed to be...put up.or shut up...
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witness23
Veteran Expediter
So the teachers you know, do they or have they lost their incentive to teach because they have job security?
He was there in support of teachers unions and his Mother.
witness23
Veteran Expediter
What problem did your kids principal tell you, was your problem?
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
The Oprah show that brought up this issue (yes, I'll watch Oprah, or any other show that brings up education with a MEANINGFUL dialog.) was fantastic. The expert (I can't remember who it was, but they weren't a union slug) said if we replace the bottom 15% of the teachers with AVERAGE teachers, we'll have most of our problem solved. That, my friends, is a union issue!
I also watched the 20/20 where John Stossel exposed the NYC teachers union for what they were. That was awesome to behold. Unfortunately, little has changed because of that exposure. But Stossel rocks, nonetheless!
I also watched the 20/20 where John Stossel exposed the NYC teachers union for what they were. That was awesome to behold. Unfortunately, little has changed because of that exposure. But Stossel rocks, nonetheless!
fortwayne
Not a Member
Its much easier to blame someone else.
The blame is on the parents and their failure to guide their kids.
The blame is on the teachers and their failure to inform the parents.
We can disagree about tenure and unions all we want.
But, parents and teachers are to blame and our failure to show the kids the true value of a quality education.
And yes, I served on a local school board, and yes the union finally got me defeated since I opposed several pay hikes, pushed for a strict code of conduct policy and spoke against the tenure worshippers.
We have to see a change in the relationship between parents and teachers.....they act as if they are opponents in a MMA fight.
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The blame is on the parents and their failure to guide their kids.
The blame is on the teachers and their failure to inform the parents.
We can disagree about tenure and unions all we want.
But, parents and teachers are to blame and our failure to show the kids the true value of a quality education.
And yes, I served on a local school board, and yes the union finally got me defeated since I opposed several pay hikes, pushed for a strict code of conduct policy and spoke against the tenure worshippers.
We have to see a change in the relationship between parents and teachers.....they act as if they are opponents in a MMA fight.
Posted with my Droid EO Forum App