A happy ending, I guess!

[themagicoen]

(if a special person is reading this, please correct me if anything I said was wrong, I would really like to know your side to this - we both know who you are. All this information below is public info)
This post has been a long long long time in works. I haven't been able to post details about this issues, which will be posted below, for legal reasons. For the regulars around here, you might remember about year and a half ago I post about a dispute with the owner I was working for. If your new here is the basic run down of what happened:
June 2006 -
We were have a stellar month, we were going at non stop pace for like 3 weeks to one faithful day. We were sitting in MO waiting on load when P2 called to inform me that my license has been revoked and that I was taken off the truck. Well I called up my home state and it was taken care of, call back the cat and all was good. This is sorrta of secondary to the main cause of my problems. About 4 months prior to this I planed a 10 day trip/time off for July, and after bringing the back up to my owner at the time we were discussing the above is when the problems started. I'm not going to into all the details as they have been posted before but basically my owner when ballistic over me having this time off even though it was planned months ago. There was a stipulation that I was to drive for 6 weeks with no time off to get this but I would only going to have 4 in. But we made this agreement before I took on a new team partner who needed to be home for something. To compensate for this I came to offering $1000 for the time off and 6-8 weeks after of non-stop work. The conversation continued down hill, and by the time it was over the owner told me if I was to take the time off that I would have to accept a new contract that would cut my pay dramatically or not take the time off. I stated that this wasn't going to work so I gave my 30 day notice. He returned with that he was termination my contract and that I had to return the truck ASAP due to my license issue. Up to this point he hadn't even brought this up. This all took place in a 2 day time span. When I returned the truck I asked about $6500 that was owed to me and I got an answer that I got was as soon as I look at the truck I'll pay you. The final week of June went by with no word from him.
Today -
Well I finally had to contact a lawyer to try to get my money. By stating what time I could have off and a bunch of other things my lawyer came up that he broke a few laws in the process and issued a good size lawsuit against him. Months went by, going back and forth between parties, court date was set for next week. Well, at zero hour we reached a undisclosed settlement. And TODAY I finally got my 1st part of that, my first part of my pay from almost a year and a half ago. It wasn't what I expected or deserved but getting something feels good!

So as a morale to this story, never give up. If you treated wrongly by an owner or not paid what you are owed - there is hope. I learned a lot by this process but hope to never have to do again.

If anyone is into reading court documents this case is a public file and you are able to look it up by going to the Clerk of Medina County Ohio website and looking up case 06CIV1342

Any questions, ask!

 

[tallcal101]

I do remeber your post from last year,and I'm very pleased to hear that you have gotten some degree of justice.It really fries me when I hear stories like this one.It's why I think in this little industry of poorly financed Mom and Pop type operations contracts are a joke.Nobody pays any attention to them,and the driver gets screwed every time.
The only contract that carries any weight is the one the owner signed with the carrier.Trust,if they breach THAT contract they will be shut down TODAY!
Advise to drivers:
Demand to get your pay off the clink after each and every load.If things get sideways over "he said she said",everybody goes their separate ways and the lawyers don't get a penny.
With fuel appraching $4.00 a gallon,it should also be 100% the responsiblilty of the owner to supply the drivers with a third pary fuel card that is paid off every week.
Any other round the bend you do this and I do that behind the back and out the front door stupid contract will bite drivers big time.Every time.
It becomes the reason the owner will not pay you on time.
Be careful,don't sign anything.Rather,try and establish an atmosphear of trust.A document that puts you in a positon of forever waiting to get paid,living off candy bars in truck stops waiting on an advance from the carrier for fuel money may very well be what your signing up for.
If you don't feel the love from the get go,don't waste your time with this individual and find something else to do.

 

[cheri1122]

I too, am happy to hear of a resolution. TC's advice is good, but I'm afraid in this day & age, a contract is pretty much a neccessity - if it isn't documented, it doesn't mean anything. Verbal promises on either side are worthless, if a dispute arises.
One thing I'd add: if you do have a complaint, decide before complaining what exactly you are asking for, in terms of a remedy, and request it firmly, when you can do so calmly.

 

[tallcal101]

I would agree that in todays world,a contract ssems to be the norm.But again,I really feel this is not a sophisitcated industry.It's pretty basic.You drive the truck,talk to me if you question on a load offer,owner takes care of repairs,and we agree on when your going out and when your going to be off.Take your 40% and the owner pays the fuel.I promise,if an owner does his or her homework,and the driver feels the love and is thus motivated,a contract gets in the way instead of protecting anyone.
In 90% of the disputes over a contract,nobody wants to,or has the money,to retain a lawyer and follow through.It becomes a worthless piece of paper that allows the owners to get out of paying the hard working driver.Owners know drivers cannot pursue legal action anyway(no money).
Perhaps I'm the eternal optomist,but I think contracts in this business are not worth the cost of the paper.You don't want to drive for me,see ya.I don't want you around,see ya.
Of all the hassels I had dealing with the ups and downs and costs etc,not one time did I have a dispute with a driver over money or their right or my right to end the relationship.
Having a contract or no contract played no role in my choice to shut down.

 

[greg334]

The complexity of the contract is directly proportional to the amount of lawyers in existence in the US.

With the 'sue you' mentality, the contract is a tool to protect yourself with.

 

[Suds43]

I wonder what would happen if when someone was signing on with an owner, and the owner brought out the good ol contract, if the prospective driver pulled out his own contract and wanted the owner to sign that.......
I imagine most owners wouldn't even get close to one...........and the driver would be looking for another owner.......

 

[davekc]

If the drivers contract makes sense and is in line with mine, why not?










Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[rmctt2]

Sudds..
Very good idea on Driver Contract !!
Don't you think that Drivers desreve some respect and dignity !
I do !
We are all here for the same reason.. Too haul freight and earn a living !!
I quess that is why if all possible , one should become an O/O vers driving for someone who has the control of your bread and butter called $$$$ .
Maybe we should start a thread on what would be an exceptable Contract for Drivers to present to the O/O to protect themselves !!
Any ideas ??
Food for thaught !!
Thanks
RMCTT2

 

[highway star]

If the contract the driver signs with the owner is acceptable, why would there be a need for a second? If the contracts had different provisions, that sounds like it could be a legal mess that only the lawyers would profit from.

 

[davekc]

I would agree. The contracts would have to essentially be the same.
Since the driver is working for the fleet owner and the fleet owner carries the investment, it would only seem logical that the contract originate there.









Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[themagicoen]

Well in my case the contract I signed with my owner worked out both ways. It provided me legal ground to get what was owed but it also contained a statement that if I operated the truck illegally that I was to return the truck ASAP. Well he figured that sense my license was accutaly suspended for like 3 weeks before I found out that I was in fault but it was just a computer error and was fixed as soon as I figured it out. Also he said because I speed in the truck I was at fault. I'm guilty of that, but only for the safe operation of the truck. Should there be a contract from the driver? No, but I think that the driver should read and fully understand what he is signing, ask question and make changes if not. The first draft that my owner presented me was written in a way that he could hold me liable for insurance payments and other expenses, no way was I going to sign that.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Ticky-tack if you ask me about speeding. OMG you started moving the truck without your seatbelt on! You owe me your life and your first born! Ppl like that made this country into the sh*thole of litigation it is today!

-True independence can only be gained if you're trully independant.

 

[cheri1122]

I'm confused: you "speed in the truck, so you're at fault" - for what? Speeding tickets? If so, he's right. But if you don't have speeding tickets, what's his reason for complaint? Does he pay for the fuel? If he does, speeding uses more of it, but if you pay for fuel, again: what's his reason?

 

[tallcal101]

Johnny Paycheck said "take this job and shove it".Substitute contract.

 

[cheri1122]

TC, I wish it were like that, but what happens when one party turns out to be unethical? How does the other party get what's owed? Whether owner or driver, both parties are at risk in a business relationship, and most of us have learned the hard way, that some folks aren't truthful for very long...

 

[greg334]

Cheri,
I don't understand when people talk about contracts, no one seems to say - have a lawyer read it and explain it to you?

I think that the fleet owner or primary contractor should be the only one to write up (or have it written) the contract because as mentioned, it is their investment. but again when I gave out my contract to potential drivers, I had an explanation sheet to go along with it that explain things and why.

My advice has always been, have a contract and have a lawyer look at it and explain it to you.

 

[juliewray60]

Congrats !!!!

Its a shame the UNgratefulls didn't have to pay lump sum. Certainly, Jerry would be rollin' in his grave knowing wankers like those folks were using his writings. Hopefully, you'll not be filing non-payment papers every thirty days. The Judge has the right to make monetary judgments but not the ability to collect.You did good by bringing this to an ending and hopefully the lawyer fees didn't kill you.

On a side note concerning contracts. I agree 100% with tallcal101. Some of the most successful owners in the business never use contracts. Just ask the forums staff photographer with the shiny blue Volvo.

 

[terryandrene]

JW60

You are undoubtedly correct in stating, "Some of the most successful owners in the business never use contracts." I think that "some" is a small minority. A very large chunk of the majority of Owners and Drivers that operated without written contracts, eventually faced disagreements that created untenable working relationships. There are dozens of examples in these forums where drivers abused and abandoned vehicles, failed to comply with non-binding oral contracts, and/or failed to satisfy their owner's obligation to carriers and customers. An equal number of owners refused to pay as agreed, or believe to have been agreed, by oral contract.

It's just not worth the gamble for an owner to place a $150,000 investment at risk without a written contract. It's not worth the gamble for a driver to spend weeks and thousands of miles on the road and have to haggle to get the monies due.

 

[tallcal101]

Terry,with all due respect,I made (5) $150,000.00 investments and never had a contract.I do not feel I'm in the minority,as I too have many friends(owners)that feel and felt the same way.Some saw business heading south and bailed.Some stayed in the game.
It's easy for a van owner with no employees to judge what may or not be best business practice.It's another story when your faced with dealing with 5 teams,(10 personalities).Trying to wrangle each one of them into signing a piece of paper that dictates how this"partnership"will be carried out is like trying to herd cats.It goes from being a partnertship to being a boss employee relationship pretty quickly.Defeats the purpose of trying to establish trust.
When a problem does arise,everyone pulls out the paper,there goes the partnership and here comes the lawyers,the arguments and name calling on EO.Ninty percent of the cases never go to court.It's always about money.I always felt paying the drivers FIRST kept them on board and happy.If an owner has to steal(or use interest free)the drivers money to meet their obligations,they need to find something else to do.They are not small business owners,they are common thieves,contract or no contract.

 

[davekc]

The way the IRS have been cracking down on independent contractor status requirements, you will wish you had one in the event of a audit.
It isn't a trust issue as much as it is a business issue.










Davekc
owner
23 years
PantherII
EO moderator