A/C metal contamination aka black death

Tennesseahawk · Jun 20, 2006

Has anyone run across this? Apparently, the compressor breaks down and sends metal shavings throughout the system. Once the accumulator gets clogged, the a/c stops puting out cold air. After 2 hours of troubleshooting, the mechanic finally found the problem. One way of finding it is the high side and low side have the same pressure, indicating a blockage. The thermisters<sp>, orifice filter, and high side pressure switch all had metal shavings on them.

Repair is quite costly, as the compressor and any contaminated components must be replaced. The system has to be flushed, usually several times. And even that doesn't guarantee it to be totally free of shavings.

According to this site, it usually results from either low charge level, or not enough oil in the freon to lubricate the compressor.

http://www.ackits.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=black death

jaminjim · Jun 20, 2006

Who fixed it. I had to replace my compressor a few months back, after it took a complete dump and locked up on me. It then took out the belt and ended up costing about $2,000.00 by the time we got towed and repaired. A/C has not worked very well after that. I may need the same service guy to check mine out so as to not pay the 2 hour search for the problem.

Tennesseahawk · Jun 20, 2006

It was troubleshot at the International in Indianapolis. However, I wanted a second opinion, so I headed home. Currently, it's at Tri-county International in Dearborn. I swear the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing there. It was the owner's call, as I've heard enough about them to not take my trucks there. The guy told me today it should be done by the end of the day. But when I asked them what they found out, he said they're still checking it out. DUH! Then how do you know it'll be done by the end of the day?

If you take it to your normal place, ask them to drain the system and check the orifice filter. You'll know you have metal contamination if there is any metal shavings (usually black) in the filter.

I'll let you know what happened with mine when I get word myself.

jaminjim · Jun 21, 2006

Thanks T.

greg334 · Jun 24, 2006

You know I was about to tell T-hawk that he jinxed me. My A/C has been getting warmer and warmer and now is hot air blowing out. I found out that my A/C is fine the problem is either the temp control module or the control may be bad.

Tennesseahawk · Jun 24, 2006

Then you're lucky, Greg!

Time for an update. It works. They did one complete flush of the system, which kinda scares me. The guys in Indy told me it would maybe take three or more times before all the metal is out. At least I made a copy of the reciept to keep in my files in case this happens again.

Total ran $1200+, tho International agreed to take the price of the compressor off that. So, $800 isn't bad for what they did.

To make sure if that happens again, it won't be on me. A/C will be checked once before summer, once during, and once after. Gotta keep it fully charged.

greg334 · Jun 24, 2006

Well I am glad it didn't cost a lot. For that matter it is half of what I paid for my caravan to be fixed - and a third of the cost of my truck.

I don't feel so lucky right now I would rather have a plugged o-tube. I have to rip the right side of the dash apart tomorrow to see what is wrong. The control is working but I can't tell if the temp control module is opening all the way, I am hoping that it isn't and I can get it fixed without dealer intervention. I get some cool air out of the right side but how out of the left. The shop manual does not have a good illustration of the unit so figuring it out via the socket and prybar is the only solution. I can not live without A/C.

jaminjim · Jun 25, 2006

Well you could have it like we did. The A/C was not working in the M2, so we sweated it out till we got home. (about Three weeks worth of sweating) Can you say El Paso I swear it was near three hundred in that truck. On the way home my son calls up and says "hey dad the A/C just took a dump. Just my luck it's to old to fix so $5,500.00 for the A/C at the house. And I still have to put a roof on before winter.
Lucky for me the A/C fix for the truck was only a couple of hundred.

x06col · Jun 25, 2006

That's what i'm talking about JAMINJIM!! El Paso is a fir piece sout o Edmonton!!! I applaud you. Sometimes, ya gotta just grin and bear it if, you want to have your plan come together. You probably made enough by hanging in there, not limping home, and not breaking up your momentum to pay for your home A/C misfortune. I had a team in the same boat, they were doing consistent 7k weeks and didn't want to break the momentum, thru Florida and other Southern locations even, I finally made an appointment and forced them to the shop last Wednesday for half day (they were going across Mojave the next load). They'll still do over 7 this week, so I guess we didn't break it too bad.

Tennesseahawk · Jun 25, 2006

Yep... grin and bear it! Regardless if it's impossible to sleep, rediculous to drive, and unbearable to sit. Freight comes above all else, till you pass out from heat exhaustion. Then, ya ain't gotta worry bout it anymore. Hopefully, ya don't take out a van full of kids when ya go! But till then, be happy!

Ya know... you talk about driving without the radio so you can hear the truck talk to you. But you ignore what the drivers say. Regardless of the work ethic you think I have or don't have, comfort (or lack of it) has plenty to do with that freight getting there on time. Having a successful business has as much, if not more to do with keeping the workers happy, as to what your business strategy is.

Plenty of ppl can drive with the heat, me included. Not many of us can sleep in it, me included. And I'll be dammed if I shell out for a hotel room every night, just so I can keep the momentum up. Like I said... the freight will still be there when I get back.

geo · Jun 25, 2006

if you are close to north jackson oh tsi is place to go to get a/c and or your genset as they fix and it stays fixed

or if you are newport news va , harris truck and body do a great job for a good price for money
both places have help me many times and moved things around to keep ya going to

Tennesseahawk · Jun 25, 2006

Thanx for the info, Geo. Only reason I took it where I did was cause the owner wanted it fixed there. He saved a few bux, but it took nearly a week. Makes ya wonder.

x06col · Jun 25, 2006

Thanks for the info GEO, i'll make a not of that. Can never have too
many local shops numbers in my book.

woobergoober · Jul 1, 2006

I had a compressor blow apart this spring. It was actually quite uneventful- just stopped blowing cold air one day.

I had a friend check out the compressor, and the first thing he did, was make sure the clutch was engaging, when I turned it to ac- it did.

Next thing he checked, was that orifice filter- it had chunks of metal. Bingo! Obviously, the compressor blew. I was just lucky it did not seize up, and tear up the belt.

So, the compressor was very easy to replace, so I ordered one, and did it myself.

I then just took it to a regular, local automotive repair shop, that did ac, and they gave it the works.

The condenser had to be replaced, as well as the orifice filter. It was drained, purged, drained, purged and refilled.

Before they did that, they actually put an inline filter on one of the ac hoses. They said that would catch anything left in the system, and if by the end of the summer, I noticed a decrease in performance, to bring it back, so they could change the inline filter.

No problems yet.

WG

greg334 · Jul 1, 2006

Well after spending the day ripping out the dash and repairing the control unit then going down to Atlanta, it died when just after i dropped off my load!

Fortunently I had my A/C tools with me and checked the charge, full - compressor cycling, no out of the way noise. O-tube area was warm!

So listening to T-Hawk's problem, I went and found an o-tube ($2.99) and paid $20 to get the freon out of the system. I went to Wal-Mart and bought 3 bottles of freon and a cresent wrench (ok a stanley adjustable wrench. with those supplies and a pair of needle nose pliers, I replaced the o-tube and recharged the system. No I did not evacuate the system, I put it together and started to recharged the system - which was really difficult in the sun with the heat from the engine blowing up on me while one hand is on the bottle of freon and the other on the hose and valve on the accumilator which is right next to the radiator. The shop wnated $200 to bring the system down to vacuum and recharge it. It sure felt good when I got back into the turck at 90 and standing in the sun in Wal-Mart's parking lot. I did burn my hand.

The O-tube was plugged, it was so small of a peice of screen that surround the orifice, odd maybe? I still have to bring the system down, evacuate the system and recharge it properly - do that in the fall. I hate A/C field repairs.

Oh total cost - $65

splitload · Jul 2, 2006

Black death has been a problem with Ford's for years. The only way to correct the problem, is to replace the whole system, I guess the problem has come to International now too.

Doggie Daddy · Jul 9, 2006

Once again i have to thank geo for giving me some good advice.I don't know why i keep forgetting about the great service people at TSI western star,even though they are only about 60 miles from where i live.But geo's reminder promted me to give them a call concerning my a/c problems.

I have an 2003 international 7400,and have had numerous problems with the a/c system since the time that i have bought the truck.At one point or another almost every part has been replaced.(the only thing left is the evaporator unit)Everyone manages to get us up and running but the problems continue.The one constant problem has been that the a/c would blow cool air,but not COLD air.

Nobody has really had an answer to this problem,but they would continuosly replace the cab air filter($38.00)or the accumulator unit($168.00)and expect that to help the problem.(it didn't)

So after reading geo's post about TSI and some urging from the better half,i gave them a call.And as always they took the time to listen to me explain all of the problems that i have had.The one piece of advice that they gave me turned out to be something that all of the tech's at all of the IH dealers missed.

He told me to start the truck and get it up to temperature and turn on the a/c.Then he said to open the hood and grab ahold of both of the heater hoses and feel the temperature of them both.Only one of the hoses should be hot,when the a/c is in operation.After i did this,i found that both of the hoses were hot.

Now i am sure that this means that another IH part is bad(some valve somewhere)but what i did was to put a shutoff valve on the inlet side of the heater hose to shut off coolant flow into the heater unit.Guess what?,after almost 3 years of problems with the air not being cold enough it is finally blowing cold again.

It makes me wonder why someone from all of the places that i have been to having work done on this a/c never concidered that this might be the problem.So even though i didn't take the truck to TSI,they were a GREAT help to me once again and i won't forget it.

And geo once again THANKS for the advice.