60/40?/fair?
- Thread starter ds1450
- Start date
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Well to throw something in here,
There are three types of people that I find can apply to this industry;
Independent contractor
Self employed person (which most of us would be considered)
Statuary employee - one who works on commission
Regardless, I know that many will never have to go to court or sit in a meeting with both the DoL and the IRS, so after doing both the experience has taught me that the laws are very complicated, there is a need for a contract and if you treat your contractors or self employed people as an employee, then they are. You can not train them, you can not tell them how to do the work (like routing or forcing them to take a load) are two examples I can think of.
I know from one meeting that equipment will only come up in problems where a company requires the contractor or self employed person that they rent (lease) the equipment from them when you can use your own.
I would think Withholding may fall under escrow and if someone would feel cheated, they can go after interest.
But again I am not a lawyer, so ask one.
There are three types of people that I find can apply to this industry;
Independent contractor
Self employed person (which most of us would be considered)
Statuary employee - one who works on commission
Regardless, I know that many will never have to go to court or sit in a meeting with both the DoL and the IRS, so after doing both the experience has taught me that the laws are very complicated, there is a need for a contract and if you treat your contractors or self employed people as an employee, then they are. You can not train them, you can not tell them how to do the work (like routing or forcing them to take a load) are two examples I can think of.
I know from one meeting that equipment will only come up in problems where a company requires the contractor or self employed person that they rent (lease) the equipment from them when you can use your own.
I would think Withholding may fall under escrow and if someone would feel cheated, they can go after interest.
But again I am not a lawyer, so ask one.
nighttrain
Seasoned Expediter
well for one as a driver i dont agree with the owner getting any dh or unload
cause its me who is doing all the hard work not the owner
yeah its his equipment on his truck but i am using it its taking time out of my day and my hos
same with d/h i am the one wasting my hos time to get somewhere to where the frieght is
cause its me who is doing all the hard work not the owner
yeah its his equipment on his truck but i am using it its taking time out of my day and my hos
same with d/h i am the one wasting my hos time to get somewhere to where the frieght is
I understand your point and agree fully on labor pay, unless of course the owner is at the same dock in his truck and walks over to help with the labor. That isn't going to happen so the owner shouldn't ever take any labor pay.
To be fair, the dh coin should at least be viewed for the two sided coin that it is. I take zero from the dh however the driver should recognize that those miles are using up the tires, PM etc. and the money to replace those things doesn't fall out of the sky. If an owner takes a portion of the dh money, while it understandable the driver would rather keep it, it isn't unreasonable for the owner to do so, unless of course he's taking an unreasonably large portion.
To be fair, the dh coin should at least be viewed for the two sided coin that it is. I take zero from the dh however the driver should recognize that those miles are using up the tires, PM etc. and the money to replace those things doesn't fall out of the sky. If an owner takes a portion of the dh money, while it understandable the driver would rather keep it, it isn't unreasonable for the owner to do so, unless of course he's taking an unreasonably large portion.
Just to clarify in case I missed it, when you guys give the DH and Empty Move money to the driver, that's where they are paying for fuel, correct? I look at that as the DH and EM money is to help cover the cost of fuel, and neither the driver's driving time nor the truck's wear and tear are compensated for as the driver moves the truck to a better location. Both the driver and the truck take a hit in that case.
One thing about Detention that I didn't touch on, while I think all the money should go to the driver, that's assuming two things - that's it's either a solo in a van and not subject to running out of hours, or it's a team truck where the truck itself won't run out of hours and the other driver is still available for loads. If it's a solo in a truck where the detention causes the driver, and therefore, the truck, to run out of hours and be removed from any possibility of load revenue, then it's a case where that detention money should be split. Because in that case, both the truck and the driver bear an equal burden of revenue loss potentiality, realized or not.
Also keep in mind that I'm a one-cargo van owner, not a fleet owner, and am coming at this only having to deal with one, solitary semi-troublesome driver. So my thoughts on this matter might not be worth the bits and bytes it takes to recreate them here.
One thing about Detention that I didn't touch on, while I think all the money should go to the driver, that's assuming two things - that's it's either a solo in a van and not subject to running out of hours, or it's a team truck where the truck itself won't run out of hours and the other driver is still available for loads. If it's a solo in a truck where the detention causes the driver, and therefore, the truck, to run out of hours and be removed from any possibility of load revenue, then it's a case where that detention money should be split. Because in that case, both the truck and the driver bear an equal burden of revenue loss potentiality, realized or not.
Also keep in mind that I'm a one-cargo van owner, not a fleet owner, and am coming at this only having to deal with one, solitary semi-troublesome driver. So my thoughts on this matter might not be worth the bits and bytes it takes to recreate them here.
The real problem with all the non negotiating attitudes is.... when you start nickel and dimeing each other, you find yourself walking past dollars to pick up dimes. Question is, would you rather wait a couple hours for the freight to be loaded, or, be setting at a truck stop, wondering where the freight is?? As an example. Ya need to be smart about all this boys and girls.
Huh? It's not a question of waiting a couple of hours to get loaded or be setting at a truck stop. If you're on detention, duh, you're not at the truck stop, you're waiting to be loaded. Nobody is gonna walk off a pro due to detention so they can go sit at a truck stop, instead.
I did! It was a Saturday morning "mini" picking up at a LTL terminal. Place was locked up when I got there. After the first hour of waiting I QC'd dispatch to verify detention time. Shortly after 3 sets rolled in. I knew one of the drivers and he said the freight I wanted was in one of 6 trailers that just came in. He also said that the breaking of the trailers would not occur until the wee hours of Monday morning.
Contacted dispatch again with this information and a request for detention time. Again I was ignored. I also called the consignee and got no answer. After another hour of waiting for a reply I boogied the 8 miles back home.
I'm sorry I feel that the drivers should get some of everything but not all of it. Owners could go to paying you by the hour. Since DOT says you can only work 70 hours in a week, if a owner pays you $10.00 per hour then you would make $700.00 per week. Trucking companies do not have to pay time and half since they move freight across state lines which means you would .18 cpm if you ran at 55 mph. Owner wouldn't have to pay you for your time in the sleeper, or a drivers off duty time.
That was the whole reason why owners went to paying drivers on a percentage. And when I started in this business in 1995 co drivers was paid less than the lead drivers, they paid them 13%. I know that's was how it was around Akron. I paid mine 20% and was told I was crazy for paying someone so much.
That was the whole reason why owners went to paying drivers on a percentage. And when I started in this business in 1995 co drivers was paid less than the lead drivers, they paid them 13%. I know that's was how it was around Akron. I paid mine 20% and was told I was crazy for paying someone so much.
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greg334
Veteran Expediter
I want to be and why not.
Now that you made me think about it, I want to be paid for thinking about work, it is only right.
And I bet your going to want another 20 percent?
Good grief, drivers can be so demanding.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Well yes...... I am going to demand another 20%... no make that another 25% and see if I get a ROI thing to boot. It seems if the owner of the truck I drive can get one of those ROI things, everyone should get one.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Let's see. Back in 95, the rates were higher, cost of living lower, and miles were higher. So too was the expectation that one could make a living off of 20%, and usually less.
Yes, owners could go to hourly. Then you could expect drivers to actually slow down, stop for an hour or two to relax in the middle of the load, etc. Ever hear "Take your time. I get paid by the hour."?
You're also forgetting the 34 hr rule that allows you to get over 70 hrs in 8 days.
And sorry... if you're paying straight hourly with no overtime, they'll want paid while waiting. Afterall, it's not THEIR fault they're sitting with nothing to do.
Oh... and you forgot about ODND. You can do unlimited time there. Filling out paperwork? $10/hr. Getting the truck washed? $10/hr. Oil change? $10/hr. Detention! $10/hr... even for the first hour.
You wanna talk about giving away the farm? Try doing hourly and we'll watch em screw ya over!
nightcreacher
Veteran Expediter
Oh... and you forgot about ODND. You can do unlimited time there. Filling out paperwork? $10/hr. Getting the truck washed? $10/hr. Oil change? $10/hr. Detention! $10/hr... even for the first hour.
You wanna talk about giving away the farm? Try doing hourly and we'll watch em screw ya over![/quote]
At 10 per hour,thast not 70 per week anymore,with 34 hour reset could be 80 hours.When I first started driving,I was paid by the hour,after 8 hours each day it wasl time and a half at union scale,$9.32/hour,and we went out of state,lets see,it was 1977,made 785 bucks,worked 4 days a week,.sure everything cost less back then,most my trucking buddies even had their own airplanes,big farms,you know,tax shelters,and by the way,that truck, is a tax shelter,if your accountant doesnt help you save taxes,time for new accountant
You wanna talk about giving away the farm? Try doing hourly and we'll watch em screw ya over![/quote]
At 10 per hour,thast not 70 per week anymore,with 34 hour reset could be 80 hours.When I first started driving,I was paid by the hour,after 8 hours each day it wasl time and a half at union scale,$9.32/hour,and we went out of state,lets see,it was 1977,made 785 bucks,worked 4 days a week,.sure everything cost less back then,most my trucking buddies even had their own airplanes,big farms,you know,tax shelters,and by the way,that truck, is a tax shelter,if your accountant doesnt help you save taxes,time for new accountant
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Hawk, I dont' know who you drove for but, the rates back in 1995 are lower than what we get now at FedEx Custom Critical/ Roberts Express. Back then with
Roberts Express a full rate C-load was $1.29 per mile. Its alot more than that now. Yea some customers get a discount, but not on every load.
As far as paying a driver by the hour, you can do it many different ways if you have too. You can put them on a hourly rate when they are waiting to load and a mileage when the truck is moving. That way your not paying a driver by the hour if he stops for an hour to eat or something. Many different ways.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
I'd like you to find a mainstream carrier who's rates are $1.29/mi for a C-unit, w/o fsc. Nearly every carrier out there, that was also there in '95, has lowered their rates.
I don't know if you can compare FXCC to the Roberts of old. They are two technically different animals. I've also heard that FXCC has been giving lower paying loads as of late. Do they still avg $1.29/mi for a C now? Maybe someone else would like to weigh in on this.