Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
The great debate rages on. With fuel price going ever higher, is it still more beneficial to the driver to take 60%+fsc?
40% vs 60%
- Thread starter Tennesseahawk
- Start date
I have weighed in on this before and still think pretty much the same thing. If a employee rather than a independent contractor is involved, the company/owner should pay the fuel.
As to which is better? It depends on the company (how much DH), fuel surcharge, truck age and MPG, and whether it has a generator.
If the company has a good FSC program, then I would opt for the 60/40.
If they do alot of low FSC or none, then go with a 40/60.
The biggest issue as as a owner has been touched on by many. When we had employees, I paid for the fuel. Maybe one or two out of ten drivers had a realization of fuel costs. The reality of it is that odds are greater that drivers will not have conservative driving habits, idle excessively, and many will sell fuel off their cards ect. Turn on the cb and there is always people on there selling fuel at a discount so they can obtain cash. Additionally, your vehicle quickly becomes their personal vehicle even when home. There is no cost to them so why wouldn't they use it. We had a guy that was using his truck to travel several hundred miles on the weekend pulling his boat to a lake. Why would I want to pay for that?
Bottom line, I personally have no interest in paying for the fuel because of the above reasons. Why have that exposure if you don't need to. If a driver is worried about a owner ripping him off, he shouldn't be driving for them. Also, collect your 45 percent advance. It is not likely your owner can hang on to huge sums of money if you are advancing your largest percentage every time you get a load.
I think LDB had a good example. If the owner has the truck as a vested interest, it would make sense that a business partner (driver)
have a interest.
My opinion as mentioned, would be different if it was a employee. A employee has to when, where, and how a company dictates. That is a completely different dynamic.
Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator
As to which is better? It depends on the company (how much DH), fuel surcharge, truck age and MPG, and whether it has a generator.
If the company has a good FSC program, then I would opt for the 60/40.
If they do alot of low FSC or none, then go with a 40/60.
The biggest issue as as a owner has been touched on by many. When we had employees, I paid for the fuel. Maybe one or two out of ten drivers had a realization of fuel costs. The reality of it is that odds are greater that drivers will not have conservative driving habits, idle excessively, and many will sell fuel off their cards ect. Turn on the cb and there is always people on there selling fuel at a discount so they can obtain cash. Additionally, your vehicle quickly becomes their personal vehicle even when home. There is no cost to them so why wouldn't they use it. We had a guy that was using his truck to travel several hundred miles on the weekend pulling his boat to a lake. Why would I want to pay for that?
Bottom line, I personally have no interest in paying for the fuel because of the above reasons. Why have that exposure if you don't need to. If a driver is worried about a owner ripping him off, he shouldn't be driving for them. Also, collect your 45 percent advance. It is not likely your owner can hang on to huge sums of money if you are advancing your largest percentage every time you get a load.
I think LDB had a good example. If the owner has the truck as a vested interest, it would make sense that a business partner (driver)
have a interest.
My opinion as mentioned, would be different if it was a employee. A employee has to when, where, and how a company dictates. That is a completely different dynamic.
Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
I agree to a point. 60%+fsc only goes so far... especially if your company is high dh vs loaded miles. I believe it's the responsibility for the owner to make sure he's done what he can to make sure the 60+fsc would be profitable. That includes having a truck that has a respectable mpg, sign on with a proven company that isn't 50% dh and has a decent fsc, possibly get a generator, keep the truck in top working order, etc.
I don't see too many owners (including the one Jay and I ran for previously) getting a generator if they're not getting the fsc, as it's not in their best interest. For the most part, I see them as not seeing the big picture with regards to taking care of the truck. When the truck we drove had problems "coughing", said owner told me he had no intentions of replacing fuel injectors. The soul reason owners like this put trucks on the road are to generate money. The trucks are run until they fall apart, and the drivers are nickel and dimed to death over crap that breaks on the truck. So, to see an owner like this pony up for a generator would be nothing short of a miracle.
When I decide to become an owner again, letting someone else drive for me, I plan on giving them a choice. Nothing says you can't limit the amount of fuel a card allows. Given that, you can show the driver "This is what the truck gets. Anything drastically different will come out of your pay." But prepare to back up your statement by making sure his logbook matches where he got fuel on your card. If he was there, it's his fuel. If he sold fuel, and refuses to pay for it, charge him with stealing... pure and simple.
I don't see too many owners (including the one Jay and I ran for previously) getting a generator if they're not getting the fsc, as it's not in their best interest. For the most part, I see them as not seeing the big picture with regards to taking care of the truck. When the truck we drove had problems "coughing", said owner told me he had no intentions of replacing fuel injectors. The soul reason owners like this put trucks on the road are to generate money. The trucks are run until they fall apart, and the drivers are nickel and dimed to death over crap that breaks on the truck. So, to see an owner like this pony up for a generator would be nothing short of a miracle.
When I decide to become an owner again, letting someone else drive for me, I plan on giving them a choice. Nothing says you can't limit the amount of fuel a card allows. Given that, you can show the driver "This is what the truck gets. Anything drastically different will come out of your pay." But prepare to back up your statement by making sure his logbook matches where he got fuel on your card. If he was there, it's his fuel. If he sold fuel, and refuses to pay for it, charge him with stealing... pure and simple.
I would think an owner could determine by the trucks MPG if the driver was selling off the owners fuel. If you get 10 mpg for one week and it drops to 4 the next week something is going on. I personally know of a guy in Cleveland that had 2 drivers running a C unit. They sold off new tires and put used ones on. Kinda makes you wonder about the human race.
You could tell on the fuel if you constantly monitor the usage. I have no ambition to follow someones fuel usage to ensure they are using it properly.
I agree on the generator theory. For us, I put one on every truck.
I think both parties benefit with having them.
One thing that has worked for me is my teams have camera phones. When we do a replacement like tires, they email me a picture of the ones they want replaced. They are also handy to ensure your truck is maintained as well as a valuable tool in the event of a accident.
Pictures of loaded freight is valuable as well. We got a door fixed that a company broke by having our pictures. I emailed them the photos,and got my check in a couple of days.
Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator
I agree on the generator theory. For us, I put one on every truck.
I think both parties benefit with having them.
One thing that has worked for me is my teams have camera phones. When we do a replacement like tires, they email me a picture of the ones they want replaced. They are also handy to ensure your truck is maintained as well as a valuable tool in the event of a accident.
Pictures of loaded freight is valuable as well. We got a door fixed that a company broke by having our pictures. I emailed them the photos,and got my check in a couple of days.
Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator
There are a number of variables but the short answer is yes, the smart driver will take 60% plus fsc because it's more money in his pocket. the smart owner will give 60% plus fsc because it's more conducive to driver retention and truck upkeep. If the driver is "investing" his fuel money in the truck he will hopefully be more conscientious about his PTI and all the things that benefit mpg like tire pressure, clutch adjustment et cetera.
There are exceptions of course. If the driver is in a truck that only manages about 7mpg then he may want to take the 40% side. If the truck averages 8mpg, and a lot do that and even better, he will come out ahead overall taking the 60%+ side. As mentioned, you can't be running 1/3 deadhead miles or driving an hour to DOT break at a different spot that has the cute waitress. Driving smart though, the higher percentage equals higher take home even after paying for fuel.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
There are exceptions of course. If the driver is in a truck that only manages about 7mpg then he may want to take the 40% side. If the truck averages 8mpg, and a lot do that and even better, he will come out ahead overall taking the 60%+ side. As mentioned, you can't be running 1/3 deadhead miles or driving an hour to DOT break at a different spot that has the cute waitress. Driving smart though, the higher percentage equals higher take home even after paying for fuel.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
>Also, collect your 45 percent advance. It is not likely your owner
>can hang on to huge sums of money if you are advancing your
>largest percentage every time you get a load. >
>
>Davekc
>owner
>21 years
>PantherII
>EO moderator
If the driver is getting the 45% advance at POD that is 75% of his base money. Simplified, if it was a $100 mini the driver is owed $60 for his 60%. The advance is $45 (45% of $100) and $45 is 75% of $60. He's still owed the remainder of course, plus the fsc money, but he isn't getting "only" 45% at delivery like some people erroneously think.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
>can hang on to huge sums of money if you are advancing your
>largest percentage every time you get a load. >
>
>Davekc
>owner
>21 years
>PantherII
>EO moderator
If the driver is getting the 45% advance at POD that is 75% of his base money. Simplified, if it was a $100 mini the driver is owed $60 for his 60%. The advance is $45 (45% of $100) and $45 is 75% of $60. He's still owed the remainder of course, plus the fsc money, but he isn't getting "only" 45% at delivery like some people erroneously think.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
>>Also, collect your 45 percent advance. It is not likely your owner
>>can hang on to huge sums of money if you are advancing your
>>largest percentage every time you get a load. >
>>
>>Davekc
>>owner
>>21 years
>>PantherII
>>EO moderator
>
>
>If the driver is getting the 45% advance at POD that is 75%
>of his base money. Simplified, if it was a $100 mini the
>driver is owed $60 for his 60%. The advance is $45 (45% of
>$100) and $45 is 75% of $60. He's still owed the remainder
>of course, plus the fsc money, but he isn't getting "only"
>45% at delivery like some people erroneously think.
>
>Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
>Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
>Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
>EO Forum Moderator
>----------
>Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts yo
>like.
===================================================
That was my point. They are getting the largest portion of their money on a per load basis. That is of course with Panther. Some like Conway use 50 percent, or they used to.
Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator
>>can hang on to huge sums of money if you are advancing your
>>largest percentage every time you get a load. >
>>
>>Davekc
>>owner
>>21 years
>>PantherII
>>EO moderator
>
>
>If the driver is getting the 45% advance at POD that is 75%
>of his base money. Simplified, if it was a $100 mini the
>driver is owed $60 for his 60%. The advance is $45 (45% of
>$100) and $45 is 75% of $60. He's still owed the remainder
>of course, plus the fsc money, but he isn't getting "only"
>45% at delivery like some people erroneously think.
>
>Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
>Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
>Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
>EO Forum Moderator
>----------
>Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts yo
>like.
===================================================
That was my point. They are getting the largest portion of their money on a per load basis. That is of course with Panther. Some like Conway use 50 percent, or they used to.
Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator
>That was my point. They are getting the largest portion of
>their money on a per load basis. That is of course with
>Panther. Some like Conway use 50 percent, or they used to.
>
>Davekc
>owner
>21 years
>PantherII
>EO moderator
Yes, I understood your point and just wanted to expand upon it so nobody could fail to get what you meant. It is a good point that people need to be aware of. Unfortunately too many people never paid enough attention to arithmetic and don't understand things even this simple.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
>their money on a per load basis. That is of course with
>Panther. Some like Conway use 50 percent, or they used to.
>
>Davekc
>owner
>21 years
>PantherII
>EO moderator
Yes, I understood your point and just wanted to expand upon it so nobody could fail to get what you meant. It is a good point that people need to be aware of. Unfortunately too many people never paid enough attention to arithmetic and don't understand things even this simple.
Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
>There are a number of variables but the short answer is yes,
>the smart driver will take 60% plus fsc because it's more
>money in his pocket.
Leo is correct. We once had a fleet owner who changed the deal on us mid-stream. He paid us 60% of the gross. We payed for the fuel and received 100% of the fuel surcharge. He then switched us (with our consent, given reluctantly) to him paying for the fuel, him keeping the surcharge and him paying us 45% of the gross. That change benefited him more than us. Had we driven fleet trucks for much longer (instead of our own), we would have started shopping for a new fleet owner.
Which is better, 40% or 60%? If you are a driver, 60% is better if you receive 100% of the fuel surcharge, and if the truck is generator-equipped. Though, with the anti-idle laws sweeping the country as they now are, most any expediter truck should be generator equipped.
>the smart driver will take 60% plus fsc because it's more
>money in his pocket.
Leo is correct. We once had a fleet owner who changed the deal on us mid-stream. He paid us 60% of the gross. We payed for the fuel and received 100% of the fuel surcharge. He then switched us (with our consent, given reluctantly) to him paying for the fuel, him keeping the surcharge and him paying us 45% of the gross. That change benefited him more than us. Had we driven fleet trucks for much longer (instead of our own), we would have started shopping for a new fleet owner.
Which is better, 40% or 60%? If you are a driver, 60% is better if you receive 100% of the fuel surcharge, and if the truck is generator-equipped. Though, with the anti-idle laws sweeping the country as they now are, most any expediter truck should be generator equipped.
nightcreacher
Veteran Expediter
t hawk
even though im not with multiple trucks any longer,it is still the best way to go,if they get good fuel mileage its a bonus in their pockets,if not well they need to slow down
BUT this is important to the drivers,they need to check about how the trucks fuel mileage is,if it sucks then 60 40 wont work,even when they get 100% of surcharge,and i know a few owners that dont give the 100% even though they say they do
nightcreacher
fed ex cc E unit
ooida 263839
even though im not with multiple trucks any longer,it is still the best way to go,if they get good fuel mileage its a bonus in their pockets,if not well they need to slow down
BUT this is important to the drivers,they need to check about how the trucks fuel mileage is,if it sucks then 60 40 wont work,even when they get 100% of surcharge,and i know a few owners that dont give the 100% even though they say they do
nightcreacher
fed ex cc E unit
ooida 263839
nightcreacher
Veteran Expediter
i cant say for d units,they sit so often,but our e units are very busy and the 60 40 is best way to go
myself i dont have generator,i do spend nights in motel rather than idle truck,my mileage is 7/gal,i run about 35% dh and i still avg 1.59 per all miles and my net income is higher than i care to pay taxes on,and i forgot to mention,i am a team so that is why sitting is minimal
myself i dont have generator,i do spend nights in motel rather than idle truck,my mileage is 7/gal,i run about 35% dh and i still avg 1.59 per all miles and my net income is higher than i care to pay taxes on,and i forgot to mention,i am a team so that is why sitting is minimal