To each his own. All I did was state a fact.
34 hour layover
- Thread starter dwd58
- Start date
To each his own. All I did was state a fact.
It's even more ironic that if Joe and I were parked side by side on a 34 hour restart, it would be illegal for us to work on our own trucks, but if we worked on each other's trucks, DOT would be fine with it.
Interesting thought but as I understand it any work for compensation must be applied to your on duty time in trucking. Trading work is bartering. So if you Phil polishes Joe's tanks and wheels and Joe does nothing for Phil in exchange that will be fine.
If working at a terminal as a dock hand for 8 hours or longer you have to take a 1/2 break before you can drive only 5.5 hours.
It is an implied compensation or bartering if you work on each others trucks.
If working at a terminal as a dock hand for 8 hours or longer you have to take a 1/2 break before you can drive only 5.5 hours.
It is an implied compensation or bartering if you work on each others trucks.
I said nothing about barter and did not mean to imply it. It could be a friendly contest between friends to see who could polish the other's truck brighter. It could be me working on Joe's truck while he watches, or vice versa.
The point is, the regs are ill-equipped to regulate our off time. They try to do so but are limited by law to dealing only with work for compensation or work you do on your truck. As runrunner pointed out above, you can't change a light bulb but you can run five miles.
If you are home and you spend an afternoon fixing your neighbor's lawn mower as a favor, it's fine. But if your neighbor pays you with cash or in kind (like with a six pack of beer to show his appreciation), you have to log it. If Joe watches me work on his truck, it's fine. If he supervises, it's to be logged by him. Makes perfect sense, doesn't it?
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Joe seems to be the one making out best in all this.
Clever guy that he is, Joe knows well how to leverage a disagreement between me and TeamCaffee.
It is similar in many respects to the "personal conveyance" rules. We can only use our personal trucks for "short" distances, and times, for personal use. The regs do not define what that is.
SO
Park the truck, rent a car, drive 500 miles to that favorite fishing hole or casino, play the weekend away, drive back 500 miles, return the car, take a load and drive. THAT is legal. Driving an hour to that casino or fishing hole, and back, in your own truck, may not be. In the case of our carrier, it is not allowed.
SO
Park the truck, rent a car, drive 500 miles to that favorite fishing hole or casino, play the weekend away, drive back 500 miles, return the car, take a load and drive. THAT is legal. Driving an hour to that casino or fishing hole, and back, in your own truck, may not be. In the case of our carrier, it is not allowed.
WanderngFool
Active Expediter
I'm not trying to create work for you but where do you get "short distances"? In the personal conveyance thread I was reading the regs and Turtle was apparently reading the guidance, at least that's what he posted. The actual regs (at least as far as I got), were somehow ambiguous about personal conveyance. The guidance on the other hand, was clear as a bell - If thou hast freight on truck thou shall sit and be terminally bored or hungry but thou shan't move.
The parts about when NOT under load are ambiguous so I used "short distance" to TRY to make is a tad more clear. FDCC considers 45 minutes the limit. That is SHORT.
BigRed32771
Expert Expediter
FDCC originally was not going to allow any personal conveyance use when they went to the electronic logging. After I got FMCSA to respond about the topic, they decided we had to have some allowance. Some argued for 30 minutes, others for 1 hour (so I've been told), finally compromising at the corporate level on the 45 minutes rule. It is arbitrary but within the scope of the rules they can set.
To give an idea how flexible this rule really is, a friend of mine used to go on duty at his company's terminal in Atlanta. He lives about 4 hours drive from there. When he was released to go home or when going to the terminal to start, if he was bobtailing and not pulling an empty company trailer, he could put it on personal use time, both ways. Did he do it often? No, because he usually has that empty trailer with him, but it was and would have been legal if he chose to do so and had been bobtail.
Most of the regulations we are forced to live by, if we chose to drive for a living, are arbitrary without little or no basis in reality.
My response to the "nothing to do" comment was directed at a driver who does not log.
For myself, I always make sure that all loggable activities are completed prior to or after the 34 hour reset.
Because I am all about logging it correctly.
Heck - I won't even LOOK at the Qualcomm while I'm on a reset!
For myself, I always make sure that all loggable activities are completed prior to or after the 34 hour reset.
Because I am all about logging it correctly.
Heck - I won't even LOOK at the Qualcomm while I'm on a reset!
That's true, Joe, for drivers like you who obey the speed limit and have the good sense to not drive when you know you need sleep. But there are the problem children too: those who would dive as long as they are physically able and then drive some more, those who could care less about speed limits, those who don't even think to slow down in a construction zone, those for whom one working headlamp is enough even if it jiggles in its mount, those who believe they have the right to tailgate a four-wheeler by six inches to bully him or her into a lane change. They are the ones who alarm the general public and propel the regulators and safety advocates into rule-making frenzies.
That is no different than keeping an entire class after school because the teacher did not catch the one that shot the spit ball. All it does is tick off the innocent, teaching them that behaving correctly has no positive rewards and other's bad actions result in punishment for all. There for, there is no need to act correctly, there is not gain.
LOS is spot on: the whole approach of the FMCSA rulemaking is all stick and no carrot. Especially the electronic logging, which they admit is entirely about compliance. As if a compliant driver is a safe driver, because we're all the same, us drivers, and one day is exactly like another. If we follow the schedule they set for us [in their offices], we will all be much safer, yes? No. we won't.
The strictly punitive approach is demoralizing [get over 100 things perfect on a level 1 inspection, and you'll still get a violation for the single trivial thing that wasn't perfect: a stick on reflector that fell off] and how does that make us feel?
Like LOS said: we don't get credit for what we do right, which is 99.9% of what we actually do.
The strictly punitive approach is demoralizing [get over 100 things perfect on a level 1 inspection, and you'll still get a violation for the single trivial thing that wasn't perfect: a stick on reflector that fell off] and how does that make us feel?
Like LOS said: we don't get credit for what we do right, which is 99.9% of what we actually do.
I was just doing some reading.....WHY would a solo really have to take a restart ALL the TIME?.....whenit looks like you could chose to sit 1 day and get drive time back.....depending on the situation you could stall off the restart.....a restart is not a MUST....only to be done IF you want your full 70 hrs back.
[h=4]The 60/70 Hour Duty Limit[/h] Finally, you have the 60/70 hour limit. This limit is based on a 7 day or 8 day period.
This limit is sometimes thought of as a "weekly" limit. However, this limit is not based on a "set" week, such as Sunday through Saturday. The limit is based on a "rolling" or "floating" 7 day or 8 day period. The oldest day's hours drop off at the end of each day when you calculate the total on duty time for the past 7 or 8 days. For example, if you operate on a 70-hour/8-day schedule, the current day would be the newest day of your 8 day period and the hours you worked nine days ago would drop out of the calculation.
You are required to follow one of these two "weekly" limits:
[h=5]1. The 7 day / 60 hour limit:
[/h] If your company does not operate vehicles every day of the week, you are eligible to use the 7 day / 60 hour limit. By using this limit, you are not allowed to drive after you’ve been on duty for 60 hours during any 7 consecutive days. Once you reach the 60 hour limit, you will not be able to drive again until you have dropped below 60 hours for a 7 consecutive day period. You may do other work, but you cannot do any more driving until you are off duty enough days to get below the limit. Any other hours you work, whether they are for a motor carrier or someone else, must be added to the total.
[h=5]2. The 8 day / 70 hour limit:
[/h] If your company operates vehicles every day of the week, you will use the 70 hour / 8 day schedule. This means that you are not allowed to drive after you've been on duty for 70 hours in the previous 8 consecutive days. Once you reach the 70 hour limit, you will not be able to drive again until you have dropped below 70 hours of accumulated on duty time for the previous 8* consecutive day period. You may do other work, but you cannot do any more driving until you drop below the limit. Any other hours you work, whether they are for a motor carrier or someone else, must be added to the on duty total.
[h=4]The 60/70 Hour Duty Limit[/h] Finally, you have the 60/70 hour limit. This limit is based on a 7 day or 8 day period.
This limit is sometimes thought of as a "weekly" limit. However, this limit is not based on a "set" week, such as Sunday through Saturday. The limit is based on a "rolling" or "floating" 7 day or 8 day period. The oldest day's hours drop off at the end of each day when you calculate the total on duty time for the past 7 or 8 days. For example, if you operate on a 70-hour/8-day schedule, the current day would be the newest day of your 8 day period and the hours you worked nine days ago would drop out of the calculation.
You are required to follow one of these two "weekly" limits:
[h=5]1. The 7 day / 60 hour limit:
[h=5]2. The 8 day / 70 hour limit:
The problem is you don't get an entire day's worth of hours back. It sort of "trickles" in and is not dependable for load planing. Like last week, when I was running very low on hours, my one and two day messages stated I would be gain "zero" hours back. Sometimes it's only 2 o 3.
It is a bad system. It should be scraped and an easy to understand system put in place. We know that will never happen, that is NOT what the government is after. Systems are built to insure a steady stream of fine money, an easy to understand system would interrupt that flow.
It is a bad system. It should be scraped and an easy to understand system put in place. We know that will never happen, that is NOT what the government is after. Systems are built to insure a steady stream of fine money, an easy to understand system would interrupt that flow.
zorry
Veteran Expediter
If you're picking up a 0 and a 3, are you logging 14 hr days?. Seldom should either driver have to log over 11.5 in a day.
Even running long at 12 hrs each, 50 hrs coast to coast, you usually will have at least a few hours downtime before your next load.
Hrs planning is part of our trip planning.
Even running long at 12 hrs each, 50 hrs coast to coast, you usually will have at least a few hours downtime before your next load.
Hrs planning is part of our trip planning.
Those days, 8 days back, we were off duty, so there was nothing to gain back. Don't ask me how that is, I don't understand it. Logging 14 hours happens, mainly when we have problems at shippers etc. Hours planning is very much a part of our trip planning.
Having our 34 restarts "split" now has really made things tough. Before the "new and improved" HOS went into effect we would always reset at the same time. The entire mess is just goofy.
i was thinking like in times like these with holidays or having to be somewhere and one is directionally challenged.....one doesn't really need a full plate.....just enough to get where they want to go...see what I mean?
BTW...i can sure see why planning is important
BTW...i can sure see why planning is important