2006 GM diesel vans--12,300-lb GVWR--logbook?!?!

Slow Hand

Expert Expediter
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050302/dew019_1.html

I was considering waiting for the 2006 models to get the Duramax diesel, which the local dealer said he will begin taking orders for in June, and they will begin arriving in September. However, now I'm wondering if the logbook requirement for vehicles over 10,000 lbs will eventually begin to be enforced on the GM diesel vans once the DOT and LEOs start to learn what the GVWR is. I'm sure most officers wouldn't think twice about logbooks when they see a van, but how serious is the violation for not keeping a logbook? I don't want to jeopardize my CDL and clean driving record for an extra 4 mpg over the gas models, which are all below 10,000 lbs GVWR.

The dealer said the Duramax diesel engine will cost about $6000-7000 extra. When I ran the numbers, I found that between 12/02 and 12/04 the national average for diesel was $1.67 per gallon and gasoline was $1.69 per gallon. The diesel model will get about 20 mpg overall versus the usual 16 mpg, so over the useful life of about 400,000 miles/5 years I figure the total expense is about $8000 less than the gas model. This comparison factors in the difference in purchase cost, fuel price, MPG, and one gas engine replacement over the course of 400,000 miles, which the diesel engine would not need. The dealer said a replacement gas engine would run about $4500 installed.

What do you guys think? Is saving about $8000 over 5 years worth the risk of running without a logbook in a van with a 12,300-lb GVWR? The LEO issue is one thing, but do you think that your carrier would insist that you keep a logbook, since they know exactly what kind of van you are driving and they don't want to put themselves at risk during an audit?
 

redytrk

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
RE: 2006 GM diesel vans--12,300-lb GVWR--logbook?!

I dont know about companies other than FECC.They will not sign vans with over 10,000 GVW.Reason being exception from logging.They are not interested with what you might get away with because unit looks like a van.

Maybe there are companys where this 12,300 would fit in.Hopefully we will hear from someone if ther are.
 

terryandrene

Veteran Expediter
Safety & Compliance
US Coast Guard
RE: 2006 GM diesel vans--12,300-lb GVWR--logbook?!

Slow hand: If you factored in the gas engine replacement at 400,000 I'd recommend you reconsider your savings. I currently have 457,000 mile on my smooth and tight gasser and expect to get at least another 150,000 as many of our colleauges have done in the past. The 2 cent fuel differential in December is now nationally averaged at 12 cents. I suspect the DOT guys and gals will soon learn what a cash cow you'll be driving once they learn the new weight ratings.

Looks to be a great van, but I agree about the reputable companies might not want to deal with administering logs for an anomaly in the 'B' unit category.

Perhaps one of our recruiter members will chime in here.

Terry
 

Slow Hand

Expert Expediter
RE: 2006 GM diesel vans--12,300-lb GVWR--logbook?!

Thanks for the input, guys. Terry, the fuel price difference I calculated was a 2-year average, from December 2002 to December 2004. I figured that was the optimal timeframe to consider. 2004 was the most recent data on the website I was using, and a 2-year span seemed long enough for a good statistical sample but without going back so far in time that the prices are totally outdated relative to inflation. Obviously we don't know what fuel prices will do over the next 5 years, but I figured the difference of 2 cents per gallon is a good enough number for planning purposes. I doubt the difference will average the 12 cents you quoted over the span of several years--that was about the maximum difference in price I saw on the chart over the last several years. Here's the website, by the way--lots of good fuel price data:

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp

The service department at my local GMC dealer estimated that on average the gas engines last about 250,000 miles compared to about 400,000 or more for diesel. I think that we can at least agree that, on average, diesel engines last significantly longer than gas engines. Obviously with a lot of TLC you can make a gas engine last longer, but I don't think it would be wise to not budget for a replacement gas engine if you plan on putting 400,000 miles on it--otherwise that could be a bad enough hit to put you out of business. If you do budget for it and then don't need it, there's your nice big downpayment for your next van. I appreciate you letting me know that it's definitely possible to make a gas engine last a lot longer, though. I've never expedited with a van yet, just a tractor trailer for a small expedited fleet owner with Roberts Express (a brand new Volvo 770 for a single driver!!! Needless to say that didn't last for long when they realized there was no way I was going to team up).

You guys are probably right, it's just not worth messing with a van over 10,000 lbs. I guess I'll skip the diesel GM vans--not having to log seems to be the biggest benefit of running a B-unit (along with being able to park anywhere). Unfortunately, only the GM vans look like they're going to fit in the garage of the townhouse I'm about to buy. The 1-ton Ford and Sprinter are too high. I do like the GM styling the best though, and the 2005 GM vans just got a 5-star frontal crash test rating from the NHTSA compared to 4 stars for the Ford. I don't know if they'll ever test the Sprinter. They haven't ever fully tested the Ford or the GM yet for any model year. I hope GM will eventually make 4-wheel drive available on the extended vans, or at least make StabiliTrak available on the cargo vans. As you can tell, I'm a safety freak.
 

dragonrider

Expert Expediter
RE: 2006 GM diesel vans--12,300-lb GVWR--logbook?!

MY local dealer who I am working with states that a duramax will be put in under 10,000GVW also,BUT its empty weight will be around 7500 bare.They say thats why no allison its weight 400lb more

Dragonrider
 

terryandrene

Veteran Expediter
Safety & Compliance
US Coast Guard
RE: 2006 GM diesel vans--12,300-lb GVWR--logbook?!

Slowhand: My mistake. I misread your dates of fuel differences. I thought you just did three days from Dec 2-4. Thanx for the link. I got my prices from the EO Home page.
 

camhami

Expert Expediter
GVWR--logbook?!?!

That's been the great debate, GVW, CDL requirement, & Logbooks.

I've asked mulitple MI diesel bears about this. One says if you don't need a CDL to drive it, you don't need a log book. The other says if it's over 10,001 lbs, then you need a log book.

The expedite company I'm considering signing on with must use the CDL reasoning, as I'm thinking about a cube van with 12k-14k gvw. They say I would only need a log book if I'm loaded with hazmat.

I am going to email the FMSCA and ask for their stance on the log book issue. I will post the response here when I get it.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
RE: 2006 GM diesel vans--12,300-lb GVWR--logbook?!

It's an interesting sounding vehicle. The factory fuel operated heater sounds especially good. As good as a lot of aftermarket stuff is it's still nice when something is factory engineered. I also think there would be a model at the 10,000 pound level to take the log problem away but wonder what the load capacity would be, especially after it's built out with storage, refrigerator etc.. It's going to be interesting to see it when it's out.

Leo
truck 4958

Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

TEXAS HOKIE

Expert Expediter
RE: GVWR--logbook?!?!

If I remember correctly, any vehicle with a rating of 10,000 lbs (GVWR) or more must log. Your actual loaded wieght (GVW) may not go to that point, but because the rating by the manufacturer is above the 10,000 limit, then you must log for all loads and any good expediting company knows that and will tell you.

TEXAS HOKIE
 
Top