11 Million Illegal Immigrants

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
11 million illegal immigrants could granted a lawful work permit and a chance at citizenship.

Illegal immigrants who have been in this country for more than 5 years can remain and apply for permanent residency.

Illegal immigrants who have been here for 2 to 5 years can apply for a green card to become temporary workers.

Illegal immigrants who have been here for less than 2 years must leave.

When Jaun is asked how long he has been in this country why would his answer be anything other than cinco anos (5 years). These people are undocumented, paid in cash and have no real paper trail.

I think this amnesty bill is more about lawmakers keeping their maids, gardners and nannies than dealing with illegal immigration.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
If you support allowing invaders to come here and stay, ask yourself this;

Do I support exploiting children for labor?

Do I support child pornography?

Do I support child abuse and pedophilia?

Do I support exploiting women for prostitution?

Do I support abusing women?

Do I support an underground market that causes me to pay higher taxes?

Do I support the diminished quality of healthcare for my family due to the non payment of services to hospitals?

The answer must be yes to all of the above.

Why?

Well read this carefully.

It is simple to abuse people who are afraid of reporting things to the authorities because they may be deported. Most crimes are unreported because of this simple fact. Some of these people are so intimidated that they can’t believe anyone but the people who abuse them, something akin to battered person syndrome.

In addition to this, the culture of some of these people are a mitigating factor and affects us directly, they live in abject poverty where crime is a way of life and the above things happen more often than not – remember they are not all Mexican but from El Salvador, Guatemala, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, etc.. When they are used to high crime rate and things like rape, torture, child abuse and pedophilia are the norm, they are more apt to allow or participate in crimes like these in your neighborhood, even if they don’t live there.

See it is more humane to use a system where they come here, be informed about the laws, the culture, and our language and be a part of the country - not invade to be abused, exploited or commit a crime. Many who are for legalizing the invasion of our country don’t have a clue what some of these people go though to get here or what happens to them when they are here and if the border is closed (a wall is a very good idea) than many would take the legal approach to enter into our country and a lot of this would stop.

Ahh... Money - the real motivating factor behind the immigration reform bill. The cost for legal immigration to our country is around $5K when you add everything up, a lot of people come here being smuggled in at $2K sometimes as high as $4K because they don’t know any better. Talking about money for a moment, when you talk about people making $10/hour under the table, they are actually making more like $20 an hour when you factor in the taxes.

Companies who support using invaders are to many like me are the same companies who support terrorism and are as unpatriotic as they come. They support tax evasion, they support avoiding hard won labor laws which only shows thier contempt for the very system that allows them to make a profit and live freely in our great country.

The last thing is people like McCain do a disservice to this country and I can’t see how Arizona even reelects him. He claims that no American is willing to do the work that the invaders do and says he will pay $50/hour to pick lettuce in Arizona. I am trying to find where I can sign up for his $50/hour picking lettuce jobs; this is one American that is willing to work one season in the high heat for $50/hour. How about you, want to make $50/hour?
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Legislators have much more serious concerns than the maids & gardeners - the owner of a very upscale restaurant was just quoted as admitting that without the illegal immigrants, there isn't an expensive restaurant in America that could remain open. Then where will legislators & lobbyists & corporate fatcats go, to get some real work done, at taxpayers' expense? You think they want to sit around horsetrading, (in return for favorable legislation &/or loopholes, lobbyists provide expensive trips, like, say, to St Andrews, in Scotland, while legislators can tack innocous-appearing amendments onto bills that provide huge profits for the fatcats, knowing that whatever portion of said profits isn't required for the fatcat to get a bonus, will make it's way into the legislator's campaign funds. Everyone's happy!) at the Western Sizzlin?! The style in which they've become accustomed to "representing their constituants" as a "public "servant" is first class, all the way.
The corporate/business interests who rule the legislative process in America require cheap labor to support the heavy burden imposed by today's accepted executive compensation "packages". If laws need to be ignored, or changed, to accomplish that, well - this is the place where the President has made it clear that he doesn't think the law applies to him, and he's still the President...
I know that there are many, many honest, ethical, and hardworking legislators and businesspeople - but they aren't running the country. And the ones who are, appear to be selling out the American people at every opportunity. :'(
 

Peace2All

Expert Expediter
Greg,

Great post and well said. I could not have said it any better. You about hit on every point that I have been arguing for years. We forget that we are human beings. It is a shame how we treat each other.

Thanks for the post. It made my day:)
 

ratwell71

Veteran Expediter
Bravo! Thanks for the post Greg. You speak the "truth" of the matter. This problem is not a race issue. It is about all the points you made.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
Cherri nailed it.Greg,sorry,you once again love to dance with the issue,but never want to uncover the dirty little details.
Tom Delay is the perfect example of why the entire system is broken.There is no trust in the broken system,because those who prosper by it being broken don't want to change it!!!Wake the f*** up people!Good lord,Cherri knows of what she speaks.
Even in this business,as a fleet owner,you can't find honest,hard working people to drive these trucks(who are citizens).
But there are plenty of latinos,given the chance,would leap at the prospect,and do a better job then many drivers who flake.
The Asian community in California(Japanese)were sold down the river in the 1940's by a conspiracy theory that all japanese had to be locked behind barbed wire.Their land and money was confiscated by the Government,they were all regarded as traitors.
It is a fact that once released,this communuty came together(without one dime of government money)and rebuilt their communities,their lives and their economy through hard work.
The Asian community in California represents the most law abiding and
financily stable communities in our country.
The Latinos come because the business community has all but invited them.Period.Who owns the the process for changing the laws?The business community through crooked lobbiests.I hope you don't think it's the people!
If you don't like the way things are,tell your congress person.
Next time you want to pay $12.00 to $14.00 to have your car washed and hand buffed,tell the owner of the car wash you want your kid to have this job instead of a Mexican immigrant.
Then ask your kid to go down and apply for the job for $7.00 pr hour.
I'm pretty sure I know what your teenager will tell you,and it ain't pretty.
 

grog111

Seasoned Expediter
come on tallcal! you're letting your comrades down. hoo-hoo! you're not being a very good socialist if you're letting a latino do something for $7 an hour just because greg's kid see's the absurdity in it! i mean after all, when billary signed the nafta agreement we "all" made out...did'nt we? high fives all around for the WTO!!! long live robin hood!!! never mind the legal issues involving immigration otherwise how would the largest gang in america continue to operate coast to coast. by the way, they'd gladly slit your throat rather than work for $7 bucks an hour :D
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
There is a bloodless form of throat slitting,called The Iraq War.
Let's see,how many Border Walls(if thats your thing)could $300.00 Billion make?How many uninsured working American citizens could enjoy health care with those billions,how many more border security guards could we have(not including the joke of the year,"The Minutemen")give me a break.
Immigration has been demoted for years to a "states"problem.The states that benefit by having the illigals as workers don't say much.Now the immigrants are moving to Yankee states,and traditonaly white areas(where good payiong jobs are $8.00 per hour)and low and behold,we now have a problem.
By the way,you may need to get used to Hillary,or find a new zip code,China's' nice in the Fall.At the rate W's numbers are falling,its open season on the White House,and the Gang that can't shoot straight(and their throat slitting posey)are sinking like a lead ballon.
I have lived with and amongst latino's all my life,and never been threatened or approached for spare change.
Please share your throat slitting experience with me.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
By the way,I have also lived with and amongst gay and lesbian people all my life,but don't worry,you won't get AIDS if you use my bathroom when you visit.
It's the number one concern of potential American tourists who decide not to come to my beautiful,diverse home town.But by God,I keep an eye out for those throat slitting Mexicans,thats for sure!!
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Bottom line, they are here illegally. That has nothing to do with what's been spent in Iraq or what China is like in any season or anything else. They are illegal and should be treated as any other criminal. Yes, illegal = criminal. Our touchy, feely, huggy, kissy, worthless politicians are repeating the big mistake we made a couple decades ago and saying "poor poor things, you've been here so long and we're so glad to have you doing all these jobs that we falsely say citizens won't do that we're just going to ignore the fact you're illegal and give away more of our country to you". Illegal aliens were a problem before the first improper amnesty. The problem multiplied once the world knew we wouldn't do anything about it and would give away the farm. Now they are going to make the same mistake again and the stampede will be far greater. They are illegal. They should be DNA sampled and filed and told they will never be given citizenship even if they go home and apply the right way. They all need to be deported. The employers need to be fined $10,000 per day per illegal. No healthcare. No schools. No drivers licenses. Nothing. They'll go home in short order. They don't belong here and they don't deserve one shred of anything this country has to offer. Illegal. It's a simple concept. Check dictionary.com if it's unfamiliar.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

grog111

Seasoned Expediter
cool, i can book passage through the dubai port that bill is helping to set up :7 hey, do me a favor...google MS-13 then talk to me about latin gang problems :+
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I wrote a great response but I gave up on posting it, it is like talking to a wall.

Some don’t get it while others don’t want to admit it.

I agree with Cheri and Leo both, but got to point out that we are not France, we don’t govern by mob rule. The marchers in the street here are for a lack of a better word are scum. Many are exercising our rights, talk about outsourcing. If you want to see lobbyist, watch the news, watch the 40,000 marching here or the 50,000 marching there, they are the lobbyist. Our ‘elected’ officials listen to everyone but the people who elect them; they sure are listening to the marchers. For the complacent, for the people who want to blame everyone for this problem, it is YOUR fault that it is a problem, you are not getting involved. If you want to change things, get involved.

With that said I have a message for TallCal101.

I appreciate your view point and comments a lot, even though I do agree with you sometimes. I take this country seriously, like the people involved with the minute man project and find that people who think everything is a d**n conspiracy and everyone who are not democrats (liberals) are devils seemed to be type casted in the roll of repeating other's comments without a belief of thier own. I know that anything I say you will have the opposite opinion, won’t be good enough or what ever; I deal with this all the time with my other posts on my websites, so it don't really bother me. With my wait time for load offers (which is measured in days for some reason) I am using the time to meet one of my goals, getting more involved. You will see the results soon, maybe be the first.

Oh one last thing TallCal101, we have been dealing with Latinos for 80 plus years here in Michigan. They are part of our culture and have been for a long time. The problems that people are now complaining about are things happening in Tennessee, Georgia, North and South Carolina and other parts of the south – not the north.
 

joebob1_30132

Expert Expediter
Cherri where are the firworks when I need them ...I AGREE!!!! I am a capitolist libertarian, with conservative leanings.. but I do not take a Laza fare attitude.. Illegal imma..getting their foot in the door means depressed wages this will open the door to CDLs issued and our industry.. will be open from border to border.. if Bush has his way.. Mex trucks will be able to travel 17,000 mi not the 20 mi they can do now. why do you think we go to laredo, because they canot go further, dont quote me on those numbers but close.. you will never see Elpaso, Laredo brownsville ,again they will run to Mi load and go back ...WE HAVE TO FIGHT AMNESTY, NAFTA CAFTA AND FREE TRADE NOW>>
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
A couple of comments.
Greg and Leo:
Do you know how an illigal Mexican can become an American citizen in 24 hours?Join the Army.The numbers of Latinos fighting and dying in your wonderful war are overwhlemingly Latinos who came here illigally.When you watch the body counts,pay attention to the names and states so many come from.
So,I guess if your willing to take a job(soldering)that so many white and black Americans are shying away from(for good reason)no problem putting those worthless no good Mexicans in harms way.Whats another dead Mexican Leo?DEFENDING YOUR COUNTRY MY FRIEND!Thats what they are.
So,the next program to be presented for amnisty looks like it will be by the military recruiters.Is there no shame?
I have a question Leo,it requires a simple answer.Is the same Mexican who you so eloquently disrepected and reduced to human garbage turn into a blue blood American hero by joining the military?Or does he remain garbage after swearing an oath to defend the Constitution and die for his adopted counrty?And what about his wife and children?Send em' back,kick them out,toss out the garbage?
Now Greg,I have yet to find any evidence of child porn being connected to the immigrant situation.I mean really,is that not a bit of a stretch.Not saying your wrong on this one(I have learned not question your sacred fact backed opinions)but come on buddy,this seems a bit out there.
Sorry you find my posting now not worth the energy to respond to.Sorry your sitting for days,I can relate,believe me.Not quitting my day job,thats for sure.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Cal,

I never used the word garbage anywhere. That is a liberals input. It's what liberals do when the point made is valid and irrefutable. They throw in something incitable and irrelevant. I said they are illegal. I said they have broken the law. I said there should be no reward for doing so. I said there should be consequences for doing so. Liberals also have a fear of consequences. They want everything to be ok and everyone to look the other way and not hold anyone accountable for their actions. They've gone so far as to take red pens away from teachers because it may damage poor little junior's psyche to see his mistakes marked in that awful red color but that's a different thread. Anyway, I never called anyone garbage and don't now either. Criminal yes, garbage no.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
Sorry Leo,it was your friend Greg who refered to them as scum.My mistake.Greg,is scum a new word for human beings that intellegent conservatives(I know,your not a conservative,you just quack like one)are using?
Leo,it's no liberal conspriacy here,the Military is doing just what I said.This is a program that is providing thousand of troops as we speak.I'm not saying it's a bad thing,or a good thing,it is what it is.
Regarding the liberal menace,I thought the Republicans were the party of small government and small budgets.This administration is writing bad checks at an all time high!!They have far outpaced any democatic
administration in anyone's memory!
And a pityful small amount has gone to strengthen the border patrol.A tiny amount.12 million latinos did not just show up over night.
Liberal and conservative administrations are responsible for letting this problem fester and now we pay the price.
It seems you need to have things be those bad guys and us good guys.
Your smoking proposition did not strike a positive chord with many on this forum,something about one's right to stink the joint up(I still don't get it)but I am whole heartely behind you!
Forget the warm fuzzy BS,and the red pens,thats just fodder put out by the Delay types.I've been in trucking for 25 years,and warm and fuzzy is not part of my daily responsibilty dealing with 45 moving vans not to mention my expediters.You may be talking about some liberals,but not this one.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Tallcal

This is not Greg and Leo's war. As Americans, whether for or against us being in Iraq it is OUR war.

I was at a CNN website that listed all military casualities, both U.S. and coalition. The soldiers name, hometown, age, service and in many cases a picture were included. The list was alphabetical and I scrolled as far a the "D's". Sure there were some Latino sounding names and most listed had hometowns in California. I didn't find the number of Latino sounding names to be as you put "overwhelming" in the context of the names I viewed. Certainly no indication that any were illegals. I suspect that reading your hometown paper and that paper highlighting the deaths of hometown soldiers you will see more Latino names. California having a large Latino population. In Minnesota I'm apt to see more Johnsons. Let me rephrase that! I'm apt to see more Scandinavian sounding names.

As this war is not being fought by conscripts you will find a broad crosssection of the population. Many of the casualties were National Guard and Reserves. People who were in the service prior to the war. Many were in their 30's and 40's.

No matter what your position on this war or any war please take a few minutes and go to the CNN site and look at some names. These were people. People who gave their lives in the service of OUR country. Very sobering. Sorry I lost the link. But digging around CNN should yeild it. Maybe some web geek could post it here .

Tallcal, if you have some proof of Latinos fighting being overwhelmingly illegal immigrants, please post. No fair citing Mikey Moore or Patty Rebertson. No whack jobs from either camp.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Cal,

With extremely few exceptions there have been no good politicians since the time of Teddy Roosevelt, certainly not at the top level. I am very unhappy with the current administration. I haven't voted for a president in 20 years. I've only voted against the greater of two evils. We should not be in the mess we are in now regarding illegals. It's definitely time to do something but not any of these foolish coddling amnesty programs that are being forced on us. I don't know any details of a military program awarding citizenship for service. If it's not rewarded too quickly it could be a good thing.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
Moot,
Regarding all of OUR war,I respectfully disagree.
This has nothing to do with supporting the troops,which I do.
I did extensive research on dubya prior to the 2000 election.I could find nothing in his back ground that qualified him to become the leader of this great nation.In fact,he was not even considering running,but rather,was recruited for the job by the Republican National Commitee based on poll numbers.Based on his name and his Father's reputation,(and the mood of the country after Clinton's "mistake")he was hired.
Now,this guy had a very questionable history.A number of failed business's(proped up by Bin Laudin money)and the worst Govenor in Texas history.He relaxed every envirormentel law to favor oil and gas.
He had a spotty military record,and was an average cheerleader and student,with a history of drinking and bizzar behavior.
So,I decided he was not to be trusted,and voted against him.In fact,he lost,but then won.Go figure?
He and his friends lied (still having trouble with the truth)and thought he had a mandate(even though he's not sure what the word means).
So,whats he do,invades a souvergin country based on BS,blows the whole thing,no exit plan etc.,was warned not to stir up a hornet's nest in that part of the World,etc etc.
So,it may be your war,but please don't include me.It's 100% the result of a small group of liers and idiots who still think staying the course is the answer.The entire time of this administration will go down as the worst America has to offer.The immigrant situation is just more grist for the mill.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I honestly think that this is a perfect illustration of two sides and their differing opinions.

Tallcal101 you are so wrong. It is our war, there is no such thing as your war, his war or my cat’s war – you belong to this country hence you share in the responsibilities for it equally as a citizen. If you pay a dime in taxes, it is our war. If you part take in an election in your life time, it is our war. Just because you don’t agree with it does not mean you are excluded from it as a citizen. I am sorry for the rant, I heard this c**p in the late 60’s with people who protested didn’t really understand or care to understand what actually was important in life – they were all followers and even today most of them are still followers – talk about robots. They all had to have an identity and be different but with a crowd – which didn’t matter to them what they protested as long as it was against the ‘establishment’, 'the man' or normalcy - it was a reason to protest and hate.

There is a lot to be said about the lack of leadership from the UN, which with the worst president in history – Jimmy Carter – is part of the real root causes of the problems we face today.

Our representatives – both democratic and republican voted to go to war, it wasn’t just the president saying go. It is their war too. The president, as much as many on the left have come to believe don’t have absolute power to do things and must – repeat MUST ask permission for a lot more than you could ever imagine. He can’t spend a dime without congress approving it and so on.... well I am tired teaching government, did it for too long.

Oh yea I find really funny is that many seem to insult the other 26 countries that are in Iraq, a few of them have very liberal governments. If you want me to list them I will.

With that all said, I do agree with the problem that President Bush supports the invaders and a guest worker program and that there are a lot of laws he let slide, but I got to tell you can you do the job? It does not matter who sits in the chair, they isn’t a lot of people who get there.

So I have to point out something, you said the following; So, what’s he do, invades a sovereign country based on BS.... 'he' is President Bush. I am wondering; what’s the difference between millions of people invading our country with help from their government (Mexico) without declaring war and our country invading another country that ignored the UN and killed thousand of their own people?

Well this went off topic, so I want to know where you stand TallCal101, do you support people breaking the law and all the problems related to looking the other way when they do or would you rather support legal immigration where these people get a fair chance to make a good living in our country and become part of our culture? All I would appreciate is a simple answer.
 
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