1 more for the Welfare State Known as Detroit

[greg334]

What does being unionized have to do with the incentive to better oneself?

Apparently you never worked around union shops.

Until recent job cuts, many in the automotive industry was happy with not going to school or learning new skills as a whole. The mindset was and still is that they don't need to learn. This is reflected in how many won't take advantage of the education programs through either the UAW or the state.

 

[cheri1122]

What does being unionized have to do with the incentive to better oneself?

Apparently you never worked around union shops.

Au contraire: I worked for 8 yrs in a union shop, and would probably be there still, if they hadn't closed it down to move the work elsewhere. I hated every day there, but it paid enough for me to be self sufficient.

Until recent job cuts, many in the automotive industry was happy with not going to school or learning new skills as a whole. The mindset was and still is that they don't need to learn.
On the job, that mindset is a result of management's habit of asking workers to do other jobs that pay more for a short enough time that asking for the higher rate seems churlish, [and the short time gets longer each time] thus the "It's not my job" mentality. Anyone willing to cooperate WILL be taken advantage of, guaranteed - they learned that the hard way. I hated it, because it's not in my nature to stand by when there's work to be done, but even I could see where that road led: more work for less pay for some, elimination of jobs for others.
This is reflected in how many won't take advantage of the education programs through either the UAW or the state.

Can't speculate on that - maybe the programs offer nothing they see as beneficial? Or they're held in places or at times inconvenient?
I have no idea why "many won't take advantage", but to assume it's laziness is to take the easy way, but not the fair or correct way, because you don't really know, do you?

 

[layoutshooter]

There is NO valid excuse for anyone not to be able to read UNLESS they have a SEVERE learning disability. IF you find yourself as an adult who cannot read, be a RESPONSIBLE adult and LEARN. Teach you self if you have too. The responsibility for education rests first with the parents, and IF they fail, the individual. It is NOT the responsibility of society.

 

[scottm4211]

There is NO valid excuse for anyone not to be able to read UNLESS they have a SEVERE learning disability. IF you find yourself as an adult who cannot read, be a RESPONSIBLE adult and LEARN. Teach you self if you have too. The responsibility for education rests first with the parents, and IF they fail, the individual. It is NOT the responsibility of society.

I'm just kidding around but I see at least two spelling mistakes...

 

[layoutshooter]

I'm just kidding around but I see at least two spelling mistakes...

I have NEVER claimed to be able to spell. I once got a spelling award in grade school for getting a "C" on a test. My HIGHEST grade ever. LOL!! That is why, when I wrote things in my government job, I had TWO proof readers. It took two to get through ALL of my spelling mistakes!! Luckily being able to spell has little to do with being able to read or I would have REALLY been in trouble.

 

[purgoose10]

Im sorrie I coo ent reed wut yoo rote becos I am frum Mishigen and we is dum.
"Bruises fade and bones will mend-but a psyche can be ruined FOREVER" : LisaLouHoo, c. 2008

I sure am glad you cleared that up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe that's what went wrong with Government Motors.

 

[cheri1122]

I'm just kidding around but I see at least two spelling mistakes...

Oh, the irony: a rant on what those irresponsible folks who can't read SHOULD do, by someone who can't read. Because if you can read, you can spell - COPY THE DAM WORDS!!!
The word I misspelled was intentional, btw.

 

[greg334]

maybe the programs offer nothing they see as beneficial?

That is one of the biggest reasons why they don't take advantage of it - they see nothing beneficial. This is also why I said being a union town, higher education wasn't a priority for those who already have a job.

Or they're held in places or at times inconvenient?

This is also been brought up other places but not true, in many cases people were paid to attend during working hours.

I have no idea why "many won't take advantage", but to assume it's laziness is to take the easy way, but not the fair or correct way, because you don't really know, do you?

Actually I do know, they were/are lazy in many cases.

It is the mentality that they don't have to better themselves because they already have the job. When my grandfather worked at Ford, they - the management - promoted the workers to better themselves but that all changed in the 60's when the unions and companies had to deal with different types of workers. They expected to have a job, regardless if they had an education or even could read. I remember my uncle's friends who were hired in the late 60's and were illiterate. They refused to do more than what was required, not because they couldn't or had no opportunity but because they had a job and didn't need to.

 

[layoutshooter]

Oh, the irony: a rant on what those irresponsible folks who can't read SHOULD do, by someone who can't read. Because if you can read, you can spell - COPY THE DAM WORDS!!!
The word I misspelled was intentional, btw.

No, you are wrong. Spelling is a related skill but not quite the same as reading. I just believe that everyone is responsible for insuring their own needs. (expect for those who are honestly to impaired to do so) Misspelling, for the most part, will not keep you from finding a job. Not being able to read will. A RESPONSIBLE adult who cannot read would take steps to fix that problem. Yes, things can go wrong when you are a child and many were failed, mainly by their parents. That makes it hard. Once that kid gets the "pink slip" on his or her life it becomes THEIR fault.

The problem is that people are no longer required to take charge of their own lives. We make excuses for them rather than expecting them to do it on their own.

It is this simple: When you decide to have a child it is YOUR responsibility to insure that child gets a solid basic education, not societies. Once a person becomes an adult it is their responsibility to insure that they have needed skills to support themselves.

 

[layoutshooter]

Oh, the irony: a rant on what those irresponsible folks who can't read SHOULD do, by someone who can't read. Because if you can read, you can spell - COPY THE DAM WORDS!!!
The word I misspelled was intentional, btw.

No, you are wrong. Spelling is a related skill but not quite the same as reading. I just believe that everyone is responsible for insuring their own needs. (expect for those who are honestly to impaired to do so) Misspelling, for the most part, will not keep you from finding a job. Not being able to read will. A RESPONSIBLE adult who cannot read would take steps to fix that problem. Yes, things can go wrong when you are a child and many were failed, mainly by their parents. That makes it hard. Once that kid gets the "pink slip" on his or her life it becomes THEIR fault.

The problem is that people are no longer required to take charge of their own lives. We make excuses for them rather than expecting them to do it on their own.

It is this simple: When you decide to have a child it is YOUR responsibility to insure that child gets a solid basic education, not societies. Once a person becomes an adult it is their responsibility to insure that they have needed skills to support themselves.

 

[LisaLouHoo]

It is this simple: When you decide to have a child it is YOUR responsibility to insure that child gets a solid basic education, not societies. Once a person becomes an adult it is their responsibility to insure that they have needed skills to support themselves.

Precisely. It seems too many parents rely on the schools to raise their kids start to finish, encompassing all aspects of their child's life, from study habits to work ethic to morality and so on.

"Bruises fade and bones will mend-but a psyche can be ruined FOREVER" : LisaLouHoo, c. 2008

 

[skyraider]

Precisely. It seems too many parents rely on the schools to raise their kids start to finish, encompassing all aspects of their child's life, from study habits to work ethic to morality and so on.

"Bruises fade and bones will mend-but a psyche can be ruined FOREVER" : LisaLouHoo, c. 2008

Plus one, on the above statements.

 

[greg334]

Precisely. It seems too many parents rely on the schools to raise their kids start to finish, encompassing all aspects of their child's life, from study habits to work ethic to morality and so on.

Hate to break the news to you but this has been a problem for decades, nothing new here. Back in the 30's there were complaints about having kids raised by the school because the parents took a hands off approach to their overall education.

 

[cheri1122]

No, you are wrong. Spelling is a related skill but not quite the same as reading. I just believe that everyone is responsible for insuring their own needs. (expect for those who are honestly to impaired to do so) Misspelling, for the most part, will not keep you from finding a job.

You have no idea how wrong that statement is.

Not being able to read will. A RESPONSIBLE adult who cannot read would take steps to fix that problem.
Likewise, a RESPONSIBLE adult who cannot spell will take steps to fix that problem. Not doing so is sheer laziness, IMO.
Yes, things can go wrong when you are a child and many were failed, mainly by their parents. That makes it hard. Once that kid gets the "pink slip" on his or her life it becomes THEIR fault.

The problem is that people are no longer required to take charge of their own lives. We make excuses for them rather than expecting them to do it on their own.

I am seriously sick of hearing you repeat that same BS over & over. It describes nobody I know, no matter how many times you rant about it.

It is this simple: When you decide to have a child it is YOUR responsibility to insure that child gets a solid basic education, not societies. Once a person becomes an adult it is their responsibility to insure that they have needed skills to support themselves.

You don't mean me personally, as I ensured that my children were educated and prepared to be self sufficient adults, which they are.
You mean society, and the reality is that too many parents fail to live up to their responsibilities, but if society fails to fill in the gaps, where are we then?

 

[layoutshooter]

You don't mean me personally, as I ensured that my children were educated and prepared to be self sufficient adults, which they are.
You mean society, and the reality is that too many parents fail to live up to their responsibilities, but if society fails to fill in the gaps, where are we then?

Yes Cherri, I did NOT mean you personally, I meant society.

I think that you will find that there are MANY out there who have no problems reading but have a lot of problems spelling. Spelling in EO posts, frankly, just not all that important. When I have to write something for real these days I use a dictionary to start, then spell check it after. I cannot get the spell check in EO to work and I don't bother with the dictionary.

I don't know what "society" was doing when some useless parents were not raising their kids. I was too busy raising my own to notice. Except when I was working with others kids as a 4H instructor.

I was NOT ranting about personal responsibility. It is the single most important thing in an individuals life. No matter what excuses anyone wants to make about how society failed them, or the mean companies ruined their lives it all boils down to it is THEIR life. They have 100% control of it. Healthy people of normal intelligence succeed or fail on their own.

 

[LisaLouHoo]

Hate to break the news to you but this has been a problem for decades, nothing new here. Back in the 30's there were complaints about having kids raised by the school because the parents took a hands off approach to their overall education.

Of course it has always been a problem and always will be, but I believe that, having watched the downfall of parental involvement breed like, well, welfare rats all around me growing up, that the old school "Paycheck Per Child" welfare system contributed to this phenomena's proliferation.

I also believe 75% or more of the people on this planet who have kids have no business breeding in the first place....even in my own family.