$1.40 per mile?

[Jefferson3000]

I'm puzzled, who in their right mind would have a 12 feet of cargo space for their truck?

The one thing I have to ask, with my limited access to the "alliance" board is how much of that is actually "exclusive use" and how much can that go on board with another load?

Well, the cube vans generally block off a few feet for a bunk and leave 12 feet and maybe an extra inch for freight.

As far as the Alliance freight goes, it is generally accepted to be EUV loads, but I guess it could be determined on a case by case basis. Usually those loads are already 3rd and even 4th generation loads. We may do a load for an Alliance partner, that's doing it for a big 3 or 4PL, who is doing it for a shipper or receiver. We don't make our trucks take a discount on these. We may ask in an extreme circumstance. They usually do not yield the best profit margin for the carrier, but they are plentiful in helping to move our trucks and our freight. It's a cooperative, where rivals have actually helped one another as customers and vendors. Load exclusivity comes down to contract with the brokering entity. I have on a few occasions offered to double load a truck for someone in need. They were forewarned.

 

[davekc]

Well, we normally wouldn't be offering our large straights at 1.40 all in, especially when diesel was still above 4 bucks. I assumed that your post was in reference to Phil's post about 1.40 on his truck. That was offered to a 12 footer.

This was in reference to the Caffee's post. The Phil madness came after.

 

[Rocketman]

I still see straight truck loads going on the Alliance board between 1.74 and 2.00 a mille. Why are you taking less than at least 1.50 in a large straight truck? This is getting ridiculous now.

You and a lot of either folks seem to leave out some very important parts of the equation. If your leased to a carrier and they get that $2/mile load for you, then they take 25% (that is pretty standard and can be up to 42% with some carriers). Your left with 75% of $2/mile which gives you that $1.50/mile. BUT, the load in question (if I remember right) only had 800 loaded miles, the rest was empty, so your $2/mile load just turned into $1200 for the total of 1,000 miles being discussed and you made $1.20/mile all in on that $2/mile load.

Point being, the $1.40/mile load discussed here would have had to be paying more than $2/mile off the Alliance board to make those numbers to the truck. If your only seeing $2/mile loads, your probably seeing the cheap ones IMO.

It does seem really odd to me for van drivers to be yelling about how cheap the straight truck freight is. You, yourself talked of running van freight for .90-1.00/mile in another thread. Was that all miles or loaded miles? Your running for multiple carriers correct? So your paying your own cargo insurance out of that $1/mile? I've got some news for you...your running cheap too.

 

[blizzard2014]

It does seem really odd to me for van drivers to be yelling about how cheap the straight truck freight is. You, yourself talked of running van freight for .90-1.00/mile in another thread. Was that all miles or loaded miles? Your running for multiple carriers correct? So your paying your own cargo insurance out of that $1/mile? I've got some news for you...your running cheap too.

I never claimed I wasn't running cheap. I am just talking about straights because I used to be a big truck driver and have encountered the same arguments. I agree, I should be getting more money for my runs, but the only way to do that is to go out and find my own customers. This is already being worked out as I type.

We know there are a glut of vans out there, so the carriers can dole the loads out to the cheapest van "whether it be one of their own or that of an outside partner carier!" Well, driving a straight truck is different, there are far less of them around then cargo vans. The only way for me to get better rates is to go directly to the source.

Once again, i'm not braggin about my rates "they are what they are" and I can't change what is happening in the cargo van side of this business. But you straight truck guys should stand your ground "you shouldn't back down one inch" and you will save yourselves from being van-a-tized like us lowly van folks. That's all i'm sayin here!

 

[blizzard2014]

Do you really think a big expediting company is only getting 30-60-70 cents per mile when they offer that load to one of their drivers. I've heard it all before "we're only making 25 dollars on this 2k mile run" please help us out here. I call bullsheet!

Yet there are so many vans out there, they will be able to get someone to do it that cheap. And I guaranfreakingtee you that they are not charging the shipper less than 1.30 to 2.00 a mile on that load. Now they want to play that game with straight trucks and you guys should call bullsheet too and turn the cheap stuff down!

 

[davekc]

If he is brokering directly with a Alliance member, he isn't giving them 25 percent.

 

[osumike33]

Really just a question for the members.

Read in the Fedex forum a debate on whether a $1.40 per mile FSC included is a "good rate" for a run that is say 1000 miles and stays in the freight lanes.
This is figuring a standard dry van load.

Thought it may be a misprint but maybe not, so I thought I would ask.

Do folks think this is now a "good rate" for straight trucks?

Dave, in checking with several well thought of (on this site, anyway) companies about rates for a 22-24 ft. box straight truck, the $1.40 figure keeps coming up, typically with fsc included. Even a couple that pay by percentage said that was a typical average rate. SO - that's kind of what I'm anticipating, but it sure would be nice to find this higher paying freight that people are talking about. Maybe that is for those with their own authority, not leased with a carrier? I did this nearly 20 years ago and was getting paid basically the same...that's kind of a sad state of affairs.

 

[davekc]

There is higher freight available whether through a carrier or whether as a independent carrier.

 

[Rocketman]

Do you really think a big expediting company is only getting 30-60-70 cents per mile when they offer that load to one of their drivers. I've heard it all before "we're only making 25 dollars on this 2k mile run" please help us out here. I call bullsheet!

Yet there are so many vans out there, they will be able to get someone to do it that cheap. And I guaranfreakingtee you that they are not charging the shipper less than 1.30 to 2.00 a mile on that load. Now they want to play that game with straight trucks and you guys should call bullsheet too and turn the cheap stuff down!

Actually, I think they are pocketing every penny they can off of each and every load they touch. It's a business and I would do the same in THEIR position. But, I'm NOT in their position. I have my equipment leased to them and I run at a contracted flat rate per mile plus fsc. What they are able get over and above that is their business not mine. I am quite happy with my profits and the company I'm leased to. I don't need you or anyone else to decide whether or not it is working for me (please understand...I DON'T NEED YOUR HELP CONCERNING MY RATES). I especially don't need someone operating a van blowing about how much a straight truck should be paid.

The reason I pointed out your rates are because your pointing out straight truck rates. I call BS on a van driver making strong comments about straight truck rates.

BTW... The $1.40/mile run in question is actually an 800 mile run paying $1400= $1.75 per loaded mile. Lots and lots of people on here conveniently get confused on those calculations. It seems to me that whatever point their trying to make that day is what determines which direction their miscalculation goes. I tend to call BS on that also.

 

[Rocketman]

If he is brokering directly with a Alliance member, he isn't giving them 25 percent.

I totally agree with that. But if your brokering directly with an Alliance member, your running your own authority and incurring the cost, compliance, record keeping, billing and collecting issues that go along with. IMO, if your not paying that 25% to yourself in that situation, your selling yourself just as short?

 

[Rocketman]

Dave, in checking with several well thought of (on this site, anyway) companies about rates for a 22-24 ft. box straight truck, the $1.40 figure keeps coming up, typically with fsc included. Even a couple that pay by percentage said that was a typical average rate. SO - that's kind of what I'm anticipating, but it sure would be nice to find this higher paying freight that people are talking about. Maybe that is for those with their own authority, not leased with a carrier? I did this nearly 20 years ago and was getting paid basically the same...that's kind of a sad state of affairs.

That $1.40 would be ok if it were all miles to the truck (a simple dry box, no special equipment or driver credentials). I think they are quoting you $1.40 per loaded mile and that is a little short.

 

[Jefferson3000]

Having been a leased owner operator myself when I began, it strikes me kind of funny and sad as well that there are those who are always CONVINCED that the carrier is screwing them at every turn, and that the carrier has no right to the profit that they do make. The funny thing is that many of them continue to lease their services to the same types year in and out.

 

[Rocketman]

I just think that a lot of people somehow think they are impressing the other members when they come on here and make bold statements about how little everyone else is willing to run for. When IMO, they are probably not doing all that much different when you compare apples to apples. The oranges that get thrown in are generally not marked as oranges but very cleverly disguised as apples?

It's pretty simple. Their is a process that takes place on every load to get it from the dock, to "on the truck", and delivered to the consignee. The more of that process you are willing to do yourself, the better your freight will pay. But you have done something for that extra money...it should pay more. If your operating as a carrier or signed on with several carriers and paying your own cargo insurance, but still comparing your rates to those of leased o/o's, your disguising your oranges as apples and probably cheating yourself out of more money than the people your bashing for hauling cheap freight. If your leased to a carrier and all your doing is answering the phone, accepting/declining a load, picking it up and delivering it. You just don't get to keep all the cash. There is a cost associated with taking on extra pieces of the pie. I think that often gets brushed under the table in these forums.

 

[moose]

. What they are able get over and above that is their business not mine. I am quite happy with my profits and the company I'm leased to. .

Amen to that !

 

[davekc]

I totally agree with that. But if your brokering directly with an Alliance member, your running your own authority and incurring the cost, compliance, record keeping, billing and collecting issues that go along with. IMO, if your not paying that 25% to yourself in that situation, your selling yourself just as short?

True to some degree. We pay 15 percent for the services you mentioned.

 

[Rocketman]

True to some degree. We pay 15 percent for the services you mentioned.

I knew it was somewhere in that area 10 or 15, which is reasonable. Out of that I would think it costs them 10% minimum to have you leased to them, so they have a profit of 5% on loads that you broker for yourself. As I understand from past threads on EO, I think they probably do the billing, but they don't guarantee payment to you like they would on a regular PII load?

Point being, you have a system which works well for you and I would happily do the same given the same circumstances and resources that you have. But, the extra money you are able to pull from your trucks is not entirely based on any particular carrier, it's based on you doing some extra work on your end (taking on some of the responsibility and risk involved in brokering some your own loads). That IS taking a bigger piece of the pie. It is smart business on your part, it is notable, but it is NOT the same as the average straight truck o/o with a simple dry freight truck leased to a carrier and I think that is one place where the apples and oranges are getting mixed together in this thread.

 

[davekc]

I knew it was somewhere in that area 10 or 15, which is reasonable. Out of that I would think it costs them 10% minimum to have you leased to them, so they have a profit of 5% on loads that you broker for yourself. As I understand from past threads on EO, I think they probably do the billing, but they don't guarantee payment to you like they would on a regular PII load?

Point being, you have a system which works well for you and I would happily do the same given the same circumstances and resources that you have. But, the extra money you are able to pull from your trucks is not entirely based on any particular carrier, it's based on you doing some extra work on your end (taking on some of the responsibility and risk involved in brokering some your own loads). That IS taking a bigger piece of the pie. It is smart business on your part, it is notable, but it is NOT the same as the average straight truck o/o with a simple dry freight truck leased to a carrier and I think that is one place where the apples and oranges are getting mixed together in this thread.

Panther guarantees payment on any load I book. They do have a blacklist of folks who you can't use because they don't pay.
As far as opportunities, those are extended to everyone that is leased there.

 

[Rocketman]

Panther guarantees payment on any load I book. They do have a blacklist of folks who you can't use because they don't pay.
As far as opportunities, those are extended to everyone that is leased there.

That's a good bonus for being leased to Panther and I knew it was available to anyone.

So, to get back on topic. The $1.40/load was for all miles. Loaded miles it was $1.75/mile. In order for the common o/o to get that load and the carrier take a 25% cut, that load had to pay $2.33/mile for loaded miles. It would be no surprise to me that Panther is getting more than $2.33/mile for some loads, much more in some cases. But what your telling me is that if I sign on to Panther with a dry box straight truck, no extra equipment, no extra credentials, no booking my own freight, I could expect them to offer me loads paying more than $1.75 per loaded mile? THAT would be apples to apples. That's what I do where I'm at now. Nothing extra, no negotiation, no extra services, just answer the phone, go get the freight and deliver it.

I'm pretty sure Panther's pay package is well below that. Maybe you can produce people who are able to negotiate more, but I doubt it is very many.

I would like to extend this to anyone leased to Panther. If your running a simple dry freight straight truck with no extra services of any kind. I would love to hear how many 800 mile loads you've had that paid more than $1.75 per mile to the truck. In fact, I would like to hear from anyone leased to ANY carrier who is consistently getting more than $1.75/loaded mile to the truck for a simple dry freight, 800 mile load, no extra services. I'm always open to making more money. Please enlighten me.

 

[davekc]

That average is available at Panther but it is primarily for fleet owners or someone who has had a lease for awhile.
Loads can average well above that, but like most other places, it would require something outside of the basic parameters you mentioned.

 

[Rocketman]

That average is available at Panther but it is primarily for fleet owners or someone who has had a lease for awhile.
Loads can average well above that, but like most other places, it would require something outside of the basic parameters you mentioned.

Ok, that's my point. Also, I did go to the Fedex forum and it took a while but I found the $1.40/mile thread. It was 1,000 miles from one good express center to another good express center. I don't know where I came up with the 800 loaded miles, etc. I should have checked the original thread before replying to this one.

I can only assume that by express center to express center, they mean very few empty miles are involved. Although the all miles number would be $1.40 or a little less (there's always some empty miles somewhere), I could turn a profit on that load. But, if I were offered that load at 1,000 loaded miles, it would pay more than $1400 where I'm at.

I don't consider myself to be getting the good rates, but they are reasonable for what I do. I can make a good living and do pretty much as I please (they ask me to actually make myself available for freight from time to time ). I average about half again as much profit as I could make driving a t/t as a company driver for a fleet. That's all I'm asking of my little truck. When it gets to where I can only manage .40/mile profit, I'll drive somebody else's truck again. I don't need it to buy my next truck for me, the next truck can buy itself with the freight IT hauls. I only ask this truck to pay for itself and any costs associated with owning it, plus provide me with a decent profit. I can handle the rest.

I also understand that my business model would probably not work for a fleet owner. I see some try, but I don't see enough profit for that myself. I could afford another truck or two similiar to mine, but I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole without some more cash in the load offers.