You WILL attend mosque

[LDB]

Or you may be in contempt of court.

Judge AWOL on forced Islamic-worship attendance

 

[Brisco]

Contempt of Court???

You meant disobeying an order from your superiors..........right?

I'm kind of on the Chiefs side of this one..............

But........

There is an Issue I have with this ordeal.

........Attorneys for Fields have explained that the officer was ordered to attend or have someone attend an event Muslims admitted was a religious service.

Now if he was ORDERED to ATTEND and to PARTICIPATE in a Muslim Religious Service.....then Yes, the Captain in trouble has a HUGE Grievance with the Department. If the inclination was just to go and OBSERVE a Muslim Religious Service......then the Department is in the Right. From what I've read in the article......Both sides need to lay out exactly what was required of, and what one was required to do, when ATTENDING this Event.

That Officer possibly misinterpreted what was expected from/of him when attending this event, and possibly allowed his clear Bigotry against the Muslim Religion to take this case to whole other level. When he is in that Uniform......there is NO Religious Beliefs that Over-Ride his Duties to Uphold the States Laws.....Nor Refuse orders from Superiors he answers to. Both Parties involved need to clearly explain what was expected from one another in this case.......And I do NOT believe that Captain was ORDERED to go PRAY with these Muslims during this Event. I believe the whole Intent from the Chief was just to go OBSERVE the Service, and that it just wasn't clearly explained to this Captain what was required from him by the Department itself.

 

[BigCat]

They need to give him his previous position back and pay for his suspension. If my religious beliefs were very strong like his I would have refused as well. It's just sad!

 

[Brisco]

Here is another example of a Highly Decorated Officer who chose to side with his Religion - Religious Beliefs over his long term Law Enforcement Career.....and Lost.


freedomforum.org: Texas police officer appeals his firing over cross pin

freedomforum.org: Texas police sergeant loses religious-ornament suit

I am ALL for ones Religious Beliefs and Convictions......AND....I am a TOTAL Law Enforcement Supporter........

But....the 2 HAVE to be kept seperate when dealing with the General Public that involves Religious Beliefs from every Religious aspect imaginable.

 

[RLENT]

Slightly more reasoned take on the matter ... as opposed to the right-wing whackjobs over at World Nut Daily:

Officer's case rejected by judge

A federal judge got it exactly right when he dismissed a lawsuit against the city and police chief that was brought by Tulsa Police Capt. Paul Fields. The lawsuit involved a directive from higher-ups for Fields to find officers to attend an appreciation day for police by the Islamic Society of Tulsa.

The 2011 event that Fields' refused to attend or to assign other officers to attend was a community outreach activity similar to many such events held by religious groups and at houses of worship. The only difference, which should not be a difference at all, is that this was held at a mosque.

It's part of Fields' job to follow directives. Police Chief Chuck Jordan was a defendant in the case along with the city. In this case, the directive had a purely secular purpose, which was to advance the police department's commitment to interact with all Tulsa communities. Police work isn't just about arresting or investigating people; it's also about working with people.

The issue of whether a directive requiring his personal attendance at the event would have violated his First Amendment rights "need not be decided here," Chief Judge Gregory Frizzell said. The directive didn't advance or inhibit religion nor did it "excessively entangle government with religion."

No reasonable observer or jury would see the directive "as endorsing Islam or disapproving of Christianity," the judge wrote.

Jordan and Deputy Chief Daryl Webster handled the invitation in a "conscientious" manner, and ensured "the visit's religious aspects were minimal and not required," Frizzell said.

Fields' refusal to attend or to assign resulted in a two-week suspension, loss of pay and a temporary reassignment.

All the Islamic Society was trying to do was thank TPD for apprehending a man who had made threats toward the mosque. Apparently no good deed goes unpunished. Would Fields have reacted the same way had the event been held at a Protestant or Catholic church or a Jewish synagogue?

Fields made his superiors' directive into a federal case. He drew a line in the dirt. His overreaction unnecessarily incited controversy over an event that was a simple act of good will.

Officer's case rejected by judge | Tulsa World

 

[cheri1122]

"Fields [the officer] believed the order was unlawful, as it conflicted with his religious convictions."
Really?
Which convictions forbid any observation and/or learning anything of other religions? And why?
Was Officer Fields concerned that he might be persuaded to convert, or just that he couldn't keep quiet and respect the beliefs of others as he expects his own to be respected?
If involuntary exposure to other beliefs violates ones' Constitutional rights, as he alleges, then we are all being violated every day, aren't we?

 

[layoutshooter]

I am seldom exposed to other's beliefs. I just pick up freight, deliver it, then do it again. Don't think I ever did that in a church.

 

[AMonger]

This second account leaves out some important info. This event wasn't held at a community center or run-of-the-mill meeting hall; it was held at the mosque during their religious services during which proselytizing would occur.
That said, he could've asked for volunteers. Had nobody volunteered, or if the event couldn't be altered to be a non-religious, meet & greet event, then compelling cops to go would be an infringement of their rights.
I always hate it when there's an otherwise good story, and the only source is WND.

 

[AMonger]

I am seldom exposed to other's beliefs. I just pick up freight, deliver it, then do it again. Don't think I ever did that in a church.

I've been dispatched, while an employee, to pick up printed material from Jehovah's Witnesses HQ. My dispatcher switched the load to someone else at my request and I got put on a different one. He said, had there been no one else in the area with hours, I'd have had to do it. The alternate load took me out of the preplan he had and it cost me Thanksgiving at home that year. But at least I didn't haul cult material to deceive people and take them to hell.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

I've been dispatched, while an employee, to pick up printed material from Jehovah's Witnesses HQ. My dispatcher switched the load to someone else at my request and I got put on a different one. He said, had there been no one else in the area with hours, I'd have had to do it. The alternate load took me out of the preplan he had and it cost me Thanksgiving at home that year. But at least I didn't haul cult material to deceive people and take them to hell.

Such understanding.

 

[layoutshooter]

I've been dispatched, while an employee, to pick up printed material from Jehovah's Witnesses HQ. My dispatcher switched the load to someone else at my request and I got put on a different one. He said, had there been no one else in the area with hours, I'd have had to do it. The alternate load took me out of the preplan he had and it cost me Thanksgiving at home that year. But at least I didn't haul cult material to deceive people and take them to hell.

To each his own. If I had an employee that refused legal work, I would have fired them.

 

[Turtle]

If officer Fields' religious convictions are as sincere as he claims, then no amount of proselytizing would matter.

 

[AMonger]

To each his own. If I had an employee that refused legal work, I would have fired them.

I didn't refuse work. I requested to be switched. That happens for a variety of reasons. My dispatcher was able to do so. He said that if he hadn't, I would have had to take it. Fortunately, it didn't come to that.

 

[AMonger]

If officer Fields' religious convictions are as sincere as he claims, then no amount of proselytizing would matter.

Sincerity really isn't the issue. He might have become a Christian the day before and wouldn't have been knowledgeable enough to see through their falsehoods. Additionally, he was tasked with finding others to go, others whose faith for which he might not have been able to vouch.
There must be no compulsion to attend a religious service like that. A secular meet & greet, sure.
I wonder how frustrated the Muslims would have been had the department had Muslim officers and sent them.

 

[AMonger]

Such understanding.

I'm sure the JWs in hell wish they had someone so understanding that hadn't helped the JW cult cross their path.

 

[BigCat]

I'm sure the JWs in hell wish they had someone so understanding that hadn't helped the JW cult cross their path.

I have family that are jw. What exactly do you mean by cult? Sometimes when you open your mouth I wonder if you realize how ignorant your response will sound. Cult? Not that I'm aware of. The worship exactly the same as any other denomination. So you hate cops,gays and anyone that doesn't share your beliefs? I'm really surprised if there is anything you do like.

 

[AMonger]

I have family that are jw. What exactly do you mean by cult? Sometimes when you open your mouth I wonder if you realize how ignorant your response will sound. Cult? Not that I'm aware of. The worship exactly the same as any other denomination. So you hate cops,gays and anyone that doesn't share your beliefs? I'm really surprised if there is anything you do like.

First, I hate crooked or abusive cops, and rather than hate gays, I primarily pity them.
Second, Jehovah's Witnesses are, indeed, a religious cult.

 

[jaminjim]

"Fields [the officer] believed the order was unlawful, as it conflicted with his religious convictions."

Thats what he said, I don't personally believe that it was unlawful, just wrong.

Really?

Is that a question, or a sarcastic comment.

Which convictions forbid any observation and/or learning anything of other religions?

Could it be that he would have considered attending the service would be praying to a false God?

You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those wholoveMe and keep My commandments.

Read More10 Commandments - List of the 10 Commandments of the Bible

And why?

Don't ask me. Heck I'm still trying to figure out why I can't covet my neighbor's wife.

Was Officer Fields concerned that he might be persuaded t​o convert,

Who knows what his thoughts are or were, they shouldn't be anyones business but his own.

or just that he couldn't keep quiet and respect the beliefs of others as he expects his own to be respected?

Maybe he knew that he would start chanting in tongue, and thought it best not to put himself in a position that he might speak out. But you sit there and question why he can't ( = won't ) respect someone beliefs, and then proceed to castigate him for not respecting his own. Pretty silly isn't it.

If involuntary exposure to other beliefs violates ones' Constitutional rights, as he alleges, then we are all being violated every day, aren't we?

He wasn't being exposed to it he was required to go to a religious service. And by the way, yes we are having our rights violated everyday, are you okay with that?

 

[jaminjim]

​Cheri, trying to respond to your posts is a real pain in the ...

 

[jaminjim]

Officer's case rejected by judge

A federal judge got it exactly right when he dismissed a lawsuit against the city and police chief that was brought by Tulsa Police Capt. Paul Fields. The lawsuit involved a directive from higher-ups for Fields to find officers to attend an appreciation day for police by the Islamic Society of Tulsa.

The 2011 event that Fields' refused to attend or to assign other officers to attend was a community outreach activity similar to many such events held by religious groups and at houses of worship. The only difference, which should not be a difference at all, is that this was held at a mosque.

If I understood correctly it wasn't the normal cake and cookies appreciation day event, it was piggy backed on to their normal religious service. If this article was more balanced it would have said that the officer was required to attend a religious service. Out of curiosity if the Captain would have been Jewish would they have ordered him to attend?

Fields' refusal to attend or to assign resulted in a two-week suspension, loss of pay and a temporary reassignment.

Well not really, they permanently demoted him.

Would Fields have reacted the same way had the event been held at a Protestant or Catholic church or a Jewish synagogue?

I don't know, would he? Very balanced question that has nothing to do with the facts. How about if it was a Pagan service?

Fields made his superiors' directive into a federal case. He drew a line in the dirt. His overreaction unnecessarily incited controversy over an event that was a simple act of good will.

Very balanced.