Would you work for this.

[Bruno]

After talking to a few of the drivers I deal with and asking them how they felt about this pay scale, I wanted to ask people in the forum.

Would you work on a pay scale like this? It's based on your in service time and if the owner is paying the fuel and tolls.

Each driver starts out at a 17% of the gross of the truck except the FSC. They have to be in service 70% each week or each month to get 20% each. If they are in service 80% they each get 21%. If they hit 90% then they each get 22%. Now this would be based on if the truck was ready to roll, downtime for repairs other then oil changes don't count. Now part of your contract would have a quarterly percent too based on your in service for the quarter. Let's say 1% each if your in service is 75% for the quarter and 2% each if your in service is 90%. Let me know what you think, someone said this is a pay cut.

 

[Shadowpanda]

I am unqualified really to answer this, as I've yet to haul my first load for FECC. But I have done much research into how things work in this business. To me the difference in how I felt about this pay plan would be in if it were weekly (good) vs monthly (not good).
The reason for this is I team with a really hairy and rather unattractive friend of the male variety and not a loving, gorgeous wife like many of the other guys.
Therefore I don't much plan on staying out more than 3 weeks at a time.
This ( based monthly) seems to me to make it impossible to achieve the higher percentage goals, which do seem quite attainable on a weekly basis. I am probably ignorant of some aspect of the business in saying it, but I don't see any reason for a truck not to be in service 90% of the time anyway, outside of repairs. 168 hours in a week, 90% of that is 152 hours. Thats 16 hours a week to do whatever. Maybe I am naive? If you aren't in service, what exactly are you doing if not being repaired, or showering/eating a sit down meal?

 

[Bruno]

You are setting your self up to fail if you run 3 weeks out and one week off a month. I don't know any CEO's who take 12 weeks off a year. By doing it that way you are out of service 25% each month. You will always have one week out of the month you will not have a settlement that week.

 

[jaminjim]

Each driver starts out at a 17% of the gross of the truck except the FSC. They have to be in service 70% each week or each month to get 20% each.

Sure if it was weekly. When I go out on the road I typically stay in service until I return home. If your teams are staying in service less than 70% per month you need to look at your policies and take corrective action to get your teams up to the minimum industry standard of 70% (which is less than needed) 75% is what is needed as at a minimum. (IMHO) Another way to look at it is if you have a Team stay on the road for three months with just a day or two off and then go home for four days. When they go back into service they are offered a cross country run, they would only get the lower end of your pay scale. How would you handle that?

If they are in service 80% they each get 21%. If they hit 90% then they each get 22%.

I think if your were trying to improve in service time without having a drivers contract a 100 pages long the easier way would be to give a quarterly bonus based on their in service time.

Now this would be based on if the truck was ready to roll, downtime for repairs other then oil changes don't count. Now part of your contract would have a quarterly percent too based on your in service for the quarter. Let's say 1% each if your in service is 75% for the quarter and 2% each if your in service is 90%.

There is a saying made famous here on Expediters OnLine, Don't complicate the simple. DaveKC

Let me know what you think, someone said this is a pay cut.

IMHO you would be complicating the simple. If you have under performing teams, tell them. Do they know and understand what your minimum standards are?

 

[jaminjim]

I am unqualified really to answer this,

You won't get any argument from me. Maybe you should have stopped there!

But I have done much research into how things work in this business.

Nothing like research J/K Experience will show how hard it is for that three out, one off is to accomplish. It will work sometimes and other times it won't. There will be times that you get near home after only two weeks out, and being in the middle of the second week of the month it makes sense to go home for two days and then hit it and get it for three or more weeks until you get near the house again. (unless it's near the end of the month/quarter/year)

To me the difference in how I felt about this pay plan would be in if it were weekly (good) vs monthly (not good).

Yep.

The reason for this is I team with a really hairy and rather unattractive friend of the male variety and not a loving, gorgeous wife like many of the other guys.

Which is one of the top three reasons that most Fleet Owners only sign on same household teams.

Therefore I don't much plan on staying out more than 3 weeks at a time.

Another saying comes to mind... Plans are made to be broken.

This ( based monthly) seems to me to make it impossible to achieve the higher percentage goals, which do seem quite attainable on a weekly basis.

Once you get into the swing of the business they won't be hard 90% of the time, if you have trouble maintaining those numbers the vast majority of the time I know a Fleet Owner and a Team that are not making enough to justify maintaining the business relationship.

I am probably ignorant of some aspect of the business in saying it,

Just remember, you said it, not me.J/K

but I don't see any reason for a truck not to be in service 90% of the time anyway, outside of repairs.

Other than a vehicle problem I don't see any reason to go out of service while out on the road. With a lot of the companies if you go out of service for a shower or food you will be dropped to the bottom of the board. When out on the road you should be trying to maximize your revenue.

168 hours in a week, 90% of that is 152 hours. Thats 16 hours a week to do whatever. Maybe I am naive?

For what ever reason some people want to calculate hours into the equation, this business is not the same as working "for the man" it's a lifestyle decision. The only time hours should be figured into the mix is if your trying to figure whether or not it is worth staying in this business, compared to doing a local job or something. (Not talking about figuring if a load is a good one or not)

You are setting your self up to fail if you run 3 weeks out and one week off a month.

Well not really fail (as long as you are flexible) but certainly not very profitable.

I don't know any CEO's who take 12 weeks off a year.

I don't know of any apples that are oranges either. But people in a normal business which trucking is not, regularly take 17 weeks off per year. Once again this is a Lifestyle choice not a normal 9 to 5 job. If the mean old CEO took Sundays off, and six National holidays off that would be eight weeks by itself, throw in a few Saturdays and a three week vacation and "poof" your at twelve weeks off.

By doing it that way you are out of service 25% each month.

But you started the whole conversation by setting your "standards" at 70%. so he would be getting bonuses with you.

You will always have one week out of the month you will not have a settlement that week.

It's a thing I like to call Budgeting

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Example..
1. A truck is in service 100% of the time BUT refusal rate is like 50%....so you could also say they are not in service 50% of the time in a quirky way....

2. A truck is in service 80% of the time and refusal rate is 0 nil...

BUT truck #1 the gross is higher then truck #2..
who gets bonus?

 

[x06col]

I am unqualified really to answer this, as I've yet to haul my first load for FECC. But I have done much research into how things work in this business. To me the difference in how I felt about this pay plan would be in if it were weekly (good) vs monthly (not good).
The reason for this is I team with a really hairy and rather unattractive friend of the male variety and not a loving, gorgeous wife like many of the other guys.
Therefore I don't much plan on staying out more than 3 weeks at a time.
This ( based monthly) seems to me to make it impossible to achieve the higher percentage goals, which do seem quite attainable on a weekly basis. I am probably ignorant of some aspect of the business in saying it, but I don't see any reason for a truck not to be in service 90% of the time anyway, outside of repairs. 168 hours in a week, 90% of that is 152 hours. Thats 16 hours a week to do whatever. Maybe I am naive? If you aren't in service, what exactly are you doing if not being repaired, or showering/eating a sit down meal?

Oh yes!! Me tink this'll be some interesting read when all this research and theory meets reality on the street. Given the restrictions that FIFO, sighning in, dwell time, etc, imposes on a truck out there, I have never understood why a truck would ever go out of service while out in the mix. Particularly, to do whatever, showering, eating, or, even at home for that matter. Like has been mentioned before, if home time is so all important, the get a job at the Post Office.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Oh yes!! Me tink this'll be some interesting read when all this research and theory meets reality on the street. Given the restrictions that FIFO, sighning in, dwell time, etc, imposes on a truck out there, I have never understood why a truck would ever go out of service while out in the mix. Particularly, to do whatever, showering, eating, or, even at home for that matter. Like has been mentioned before, if home time is so all important, the get a job at the Post Office.

Col..you know why some go out of service for shower and eat?


To protect that all important "refusal rate" mostly. Go figure!

 

[LDB]

That seems complicated. My teams agree to a 75% availability and 67% acceptance ratio. Their "bonus" comes from exceeding those numbers and the added income that produces. They are smart teams so they take the jobs that pay right, not just any old job to get higher and higher numbers to make a bonus but not really make good money to the truck. You'd have to watch out on a system like that that your team isn't taking jobs that should be refused just to get their numbers up to get their bonus at the expense of your bottom line.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

That was my point Leo...they have to work smart....any bonusus should be after the fact...

Bruno...Only you can set the bar...make them earn it!!

Set the bar in the contract..if they don't like it, let them walk.

If they do sign, you have your out...if they under perform, bad attutude or just can't get the big picture...contractually you are covered...

You are a manager Bruno...manage!!! Good Luck!

PS..... you can't make everyone happy!

 

[ConfusedMuse]

Personally to me it comes across a something close to being an indentured slave. You only get rewarded for time in service, not quality of runs. I would and do prefer to sit and take my time accepting runs. We have crunched our numbers, and we will not accept anything that doesn't pay, or come close to what we need. We ran like dogs in the pack the first 2 years. For the last 3 years we have "run" smart. We run less, but we run better. Our truck is still running, knock on wood, not sitting at the side of the road, or dead in the dump. Alot of the time if your the only truck, you can get more than what they actually offer. And WHY should the people at home, who yes have the payments, the maintenance take the lion's share? YOU get your bed, your shower, food that YOU bought, prepared by you.. Owners need to remember OFTEN what we drivers do to help with the business. Maybe if you tell your drivers what your dollar or cpm is needed to keep your truck on the road, would go along way to satisfaction on both ends.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Exactly confusedmouse....
the owner sets the bar to achieve/ puts the numbers up front....The bottom line....performance.

 

[greg334]

It seems that this is too simple of an issue of managing your resources.

The money is produced by moving the truck - nothing else matters.

The drivers who are "in control" of the decisions within the truck need to understand that there is no advantage of being OSS for a meal or a shower, if a run comes up, then great if they can take it go for it but if they can't because of their time management, then it is not my loss as much as it is theirs because of the margin they operate at.

The incentive is not the bonus, that sort of stretches into the employee territory, but rather the OPPORTUNITY to make money without a capital investment. Not saying there shouldn't be incentives along the way but really not one with a tiered system of revenue sharing.

With the understand money is only produced by moving the truck, I would not expect an acceptance rate out of a team - I expect a revenue and sometimes that revenue may not fit the trucks needs (taking a load form BFE SD to Chicago for just above cost). Running smart may not be holding out for that run that produces top dollar but moving the truck and using the common principles of the market.

The acceptance rate to me means little outside of the metric of how well the loads are that the carrier is offering the truck. If the carrier needs to measure the performance of the truck by that number, then they should also allow the owner or driver to get their own loads.

 

[Shadowpanda]

I feel like a dissected frog now, but thats fine. I knew that was gonna happen and I know more now than I did.

 

[layoutshooter]

Don't take it personal, you asked good questions from a rookie standpoint, which you are. You will get the hang of this quickly. The basics are easy, making money is not so easy.

 

[Shadowpanda]

Don't take it personal, you asked good questions from a rookie standpoint, which you are. You will get the hang of this quickly. The basics are easy, making money is not so easy.

Oh I know, like I said I was (literally) asking for it!

 

[usafk9]

Bruno: CEO's may not take off 12 weeks a year, but are probably compensated way better, and do not sleep in a truck....much less one that is moving. You're comparing apples to alligators.

Leo: You say your teams agree to 75% in service, and 67% acceptance. I sat in the Indy express center in mid november and received 15 load offers in 1 day that were sub-$1/mile. A few short weeks before that, I received 22 similar ones when sitting in greater NYC. That would screw anyone's acceptance ratio. Are there penalties within your outfit for that?

Sorry, I won't move my truck that cheaply. I am a lot like confusedmuse, and my truck remains running as well (Knock on wood). That's because I have the money to maintain it well, and I paid it off quickly by sticking to our guns, and rarely accepting cheap loads. When we started in this business just a short time ago, we drove for an owner who directed us to accept everything that pays $1 per mile or better. When he later cut our compensation, and told us what his costs per mile were, we quickly realized that he was hemorrhaging money, because he was operating at a loss. Must be my silly New York math, but you won't stay in business long doing that, I reckoned.

I believe, Bruno, that you'd be better off setting a minimum mile per run, with bonuses for reaching fuel economy and gross revenue per month goals.

Yes, I have an opinion. You asked. I know what it smells like.

 

[LDB]

Acceptance ratio is based on contractual load offers. Reduced rate loads don't meet contract requirements so don't count. I expect my teams to use similar criteria as I use on load acceptance to be sure they are profitable loads.

 

[davekc]

I'll go with "Don't try to complicate the simple". You have to have some margin of availability to be profitable. The more someone is available, they should be making more money. If not, then they need to examine that beyond "just being available" One could be available for a week in Wyoming which really means nothing. Tying a bonus to availability rings too much to a employee mentality. Same issue with acceptance rates. I have my own standards/guidelines I use to determine if a load should be taken. The numbers used for acceptance used by the carrier mean very little. As mentioned, if the send you 10 junk loads, should a driver/team be penalized? I think not. We don't run anything unless there is a profit in it. Most carriers have a outlet to cover loads they can't cover via brokers. I feel no sense of obligation to run a loser with that in place.

 

[usafk9]

Thanks for clarifying, Leo.


And as usual, very well said, Dave.


I'm writing a post in truck talk that I'd like both yours and Davekc's input on (and anyone else's).